[Fiend]

From what I understand, the correct formats are:

7a = french sport grade
7A = font boulder grade

I've got a friend who has been told that the capitalisation of the last letter is not relevant, and it's the capitalisation of a preceding "F" that determines the type of grade, i.e.

F7a = sport
f7a = bouldering

I don't think that's right from what I've heard, but I appreciate any general confirmation either way. Links to resources etc would also be appreciated.

[galpinos]

I always thought that if you were talking about a boulder problem it would be a font grade and if you were talking about a sport route it'd be a French sport grade....

Probably.

[Fiend]

P.S. This is a genuine question, it's for someone else involved with writing guidebooks. You can do all the usual hilarity but clear answers would be helpful to them.

[dave]

No the correct format is 7a, sometimes prefixed with F if it's a sport grade appearing in a non-exclusively sport guide. It's the same scale afterall. Context and a modicum of intelligence tells you the rest.

[tomtom]

God, here we go again.....

[Fiend]

Okay. The North Wales Limestone, Zillertal and Albaraccin guides all use 7A for bouldering (and the former both use 7a for sport), I've also been told specifically on here that that is the correct usage (I can't find the posts, probably buried within another thread).

[fried]

7a would surely be English technical grade.

[r-man]

oH nO!

I like the capital letters for bouldering. 7A not 7a. It's an Internet invention I believe, but I know of at least one guidebook which uses this system.

Some people don't like it, eg. Dave.

There is no agreed standard.

Different case F's is a new one on me!

[Baldy]

Definitely should be:

7a for routes
7A for boulders

No one can ever be bothered with the F/f bollocks - it doesn't add anything, and can be mistaken if it is at the start of a sentence.

It also means that when you smash your new traverse boulder, or Parisella's mega linkup, you can call it 9a without people thinking you have broken new ground. And you dont have to sit there and explain that you gave it a french grade because you thought it was more appropriate 

Other acceptable methods would include

French 7a
Font 7a
French 7A
Font 7A

[tomtom]

Some people don't like it, eg. Dave.

That's dave don't forget...

[monkoffunk]

I like the capital letters for bouldering. 7A not 7a. It's an Internet invention I believe, but I know of at least one guidebook which uses this system.

Dorset bouldering guide has f7A as its format. Covers all bases.

[jwi]

french seven a?

[dave]

At the end of the day if you're talking about a route, then it's a route grade, and if you're talking about a boulder problem, it's a font grade. Fucking simple - context is everything, we've all got a brain. For the odd cases where you're giving a long problem a virtual route grade, or talking about the crux sequence of a route with a font grade then that will be apparent from the context.

This makes more sense than some attempt to solve a problem that doesn't exist by retconning a convention which any guides/blogs/websites/posts of the past don't adhere to anyway.

[monkoffunk]

At the end of the day if you're talking about a route, then it's a route grade, and if you're talking about a boulder problem, it's a font grade. Fucking simple - context is everything, we've all got a brain. For the odd cases where you're giving a long problem a virtual route grade, or talking about the crux sequence of a route with a font grade then that will be apparent from the context.

This makes more sense than some attempt to solve a problem that doesn't exist by retconning a convention which any guides/blogs/websites/posts of the past don't adhere to anyway.

I went climbing last week and did a 7a.

It's not always clear from the context on an internet forum. Whats wrong with having a convention? Most people do seem to stick to it.

[Fiend]

I went climbing last week and did a 7a.

That's the issue I raised years ago on here, at the time I was pretty sure I was told by several people that 7A distinguishes boulder problems, hence that issue is solved. Dave may or may not be one of those people.

I'm just checking that that is still correct, or otherwise.

[dave]

I went climbing last week and did a 7a.

I went to font and did a 7c, confused now?

[Fiend]

Edit: I should have added that the guide my friend is working on will contain trad climbing, sport climbing, and bouldering, sometimes in close proximity.

[monkoffunk]

I went climbing last week and did a 7a.

I went to font and did a 7c, confused now?

Not confused about what you did, but people might be confused about the 7A that I did.

[SA Chris]

After Brexit we won't be able to use either. We'll need to return to imperial grades.

[Baldy]

At the end of the day if you're talking about a route, then it's a route grade, and if you're talking about a boulder problem, it's a font grade. Fucking simple - context is everything, we've all got a brain. For the odd cases where you're giving a long problem a virtual route grade, or talking about the crux sequence of a route with a font grade then that will be apparent from the context.

This makes more sense than some attempt to solve a problem that doesn't exist by retconning a convention which any guides/blogs/websites/posts of the past don't adhere to anyway.

But it is a problem that exists - you can tell it is, because we are talking about the confusion that is caused by it.

Settling on, and sticking with a sensible nomenclature is important for clear writing and reporting on things - it helps make the sport more accessible, and for news outlets to maintain a certain consistency.

Its the same reason that most science is now done using standardised units. We could all dance around doing our own shit and confuse everyone - but by standardising things, we can help to make things simpler, and better.

Sure, we could specify each time what we are talking about
eg.
French 7a sport route - Font 7A Bouldering Problem
but isn't it easier to just have a standard phrasing of:
7a

Especially for trip reporting:
eg. Jimmy Webb returns from xyz where he spent several days bouldering, followed by two days on the ropes. While out there he did 5x8A's, 3 x 8B's, 2x 8b+, 10x8c+ and 3x9a.

It is also the reason that we capitalise the first letter of names - eg 'dave'

I was going to help my Uncle jack off a horse...
Or - I'm going to help my Uncle Jack off a horse.

I can use my context clues to help me...but sometimes abiding by conventions helps avoid embarrassing questions.

[dave]

Funny how you don't see loads of folk rocking up to Cuvier with a clipstick and a rack of draws, given lowercase is good enough for the three font guides and the font app I have. And lets face it, they pretty much own font grades.

[galpinos]

What app is that?

[dave]

The 7+8 one.

[galpinos]

Cheers.

[Nibile]

Wasn't that distinction created by Jens Larssen for his website, that I won't mention?