[BicepsMou]

Came accross this new training book and was wondering if anybody already has it / has had the chance to have a look and what your impressions were.

http://www.trainhardbutsmart.com/book.html

Excerpt: http://www.trainhardbutsmart.com/downloads/excerpt_web01.pdf

At first glance, it could seem like it tries to jump on the bandwagon of the Gimme-Kraft and similars successes, but I may very well be wrong...

[rodma]

"Nic Duerr's Train Hard But Smart is like having a set of coaches in your pocket."
- Sean McColl

that's a lot of additional weight for a wee guy like him to carry. explains why he's such a beast in comps anyway

[BicepsMou]

Just saw this related thread on the MountainProject forum:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/new-book-on-training-for-climbing-and-bouldering---train-hard-but-smart---vol-1/111379965

[Mumra]

I bought this the other day, just waiting for it to be delivered 

[BicepsMou]

Cool - please do share your impressions once you've had a thorough read and eventually first thoughts of how to put some of the content into practice.
Would be especially interesting to learn which white spot(s) in the ever growing training literature this one is adressing...

Wishing you a good read!

[Dave Flanagan]

€49 + €7 for shipping. Jesus.

[TheTwig]

Probably worth some people buying the book just for Page 130 alone! (pg 17 on the sample pdf)

"Good training can always answer the following questions: What exactly is it I am working on? Why does this make me a better climber?" 

Note I refer to general gumbies, not the populace of UKB

[Nibile]

Judging from the .pdf excerpt it look like the perfect marketing package. Slick edit, colorful graphs and charts, etc. I immediately hated everything about it.
I disagree with the idea of giving training schedules with excercises, sets and reps on books. I would like to know which are the criteria to fit in the various training categories, like shown on the campusing plyo picture.
12 sets of 6? Come on guys...

[mrjonathanr]

Jacky Godoffe should have done one. Top gymnast, top boulderer. I'd have bought that.

[tommy_k]

I own it and like it a lot.

Hasn’t just made me stronger so far but is the first book that I feel really puts effort into teaching the training theory behind the exercises as well.

For some it might be important to know that you won’t get a bunch of new exercises you have never heard of before.
What you will get is a solid beautifully illustrated book covering a sh**load of topics without much fluff.

I prefer it to GK, RCTM and all the others collecting dust on my shelf...

Just my 2 cents 

[a dense loner]

Godoffe weighs about 4 1/2 stone, I wouldn't have bought one for this very reason.

[jwi]

12 sets of 6? Come on guys...

+1

[BicepsMou]

For some it might be important to know that you won’t get a bunch of new exercises you have never heard of before.
What you will get is a solid beautifully illustrated book covering a sh**load of topics without much fluff.

Thanks Tommy, I appreciate your feedback. That gives me a good idea how it fits into all those other books.

I'm a little bit deceived though that it also hasn't resolved the issue that although paying good money for it doesn't make you automatically stronger.   
 

[mrjonathanr]

Decevoir = disappoint; deceive = tromper

[tommy_k]

12 sets of 6? Come on guys...

+1

This got me thinking as well after you mentioned it, so I figured I'd just ask the guy directly why 6x12 
He replied within an hour and didn't mind me sharing it with you guys.
Enjoy 

Hey Tommy,

absolutely, feel free to share it and let me know if you have any further questions!

Train Hard!
Nic


Hi Nic,
wow, thanks a lot for the extensive reply!
Would you mind if I share it on the UKB-Forum?

cheers,
Tommy



Hi Tommy,

thanks for contacting me with your question, I hope I can make things a bit clearer for you.
You are right, 12 sets is something we rarely hear in the climbing specific training especially when we are talking about strength training and not endurance.

As you have read the book you know the Campus Plyos exercise appears in the context of the advanced training methods (in this case plyometric training) and is meant to server as an example for that.
As I also explained in the book campusing probably isn’t a „true“ plyometric exercise because we are a little too slow on the campusboard to really qualify as such, but that doesn’t mean we can’t make use of some of the underlying principles and benefit from them.

It is very important to realize that unfortunately at this point we do not yet completely understand all the processes involved. We can however see correlations between the dose and response of certain strength training parameters and their effects on the trained individuals.
And some of the things we know about plyometric training with quite high certainty are for example:
- Plyometric training can significantly increase strength performance especially in already trained individuals
- for plyometric training high speed and medium intensities are superior to lower speeds and higher intensities (i.e. no adding weight here!)
- for maximum effect we need a high number of (high speed) repetitions (>35) per session
- Plyometric training works best combined with a regular concentric-eccentric training and then produces superior results

These, a few more finer points and a lot of experimentation shaped the parameters for the Campus Plyos exercise in the book.
Initially I was quite skeptical whether this would really benefit us climbers more than doing purely higher intensity (slower) concentric-eccentric movements for strength but both for myself and the people I coach I have had great success combining the two.

As you can see, the „up to 6 repetitions“ per side for the Campus Plyos in one set attempt to ensure maximum speed while the 12 sets (for level 3) ensure the necessary total number of repetitions in one session to be in the range we need to be to benefit from the plyometric effects. (The lower levels won’t be fast enough for plyometrics so we focus more on fast concentric-eccentric parameters here - higher intensity, fewer sets).


I hope that explains a bit of the reasoning behind the parameters for the Campus Plyos exercise.
Let me know if you have any further questions!

If you are interested, here are some studies that will give you a good starting point to read up on the subject. Follow some of the citations in there to get a better idea of the topic.
Be careful tough, always check how many people they included in the study, whether they were athletes and if they provided a good control group. And even then be aware that not everything will be transferable to climbing ;-)

Here you go:

http://www.jsams.org/article/S1440-2440(09)00187-X/abstract?cc=y=
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2009/03000/Determining_Variables_of_Plyometric_Training_for.20.aspx
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/41/6/349.fullhttp://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/1992/02000/The_Effect_of_Six_Weeks_of_Squat,_Plyometric_and.6.aspx
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2000/11000/Evaluation_of_Plyometric_Exercise_Training,_Weight.16.aspxhttp://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/1998/05001/Comparison_Between_One_Leg_and_Two_Leg_Plyometric.615.aspx?trendmd-shared=0

[BicepsMou]

Wow, that's for sure a great service mentality from the guy and as far as I can judge a very qualified reply. Especially the point about the speed of the rebound action on a campus rung not being really fast enough for a true plyometric excercise (think the threshold is somewhere around 300msecs if I recall correctly) is something I came across sporadically and since then wondered about.

Thanks for sharing, Tommy!

Decevoir = disappoint; deceive = tromper

Thanks! I tend to do these all the time. 
Glad my signature did its effect...

[Mumra]

Is it just me or does it sound like the author is talking to himself on this thread?

[BicepsMou]

Hey - in case it is that you are alluding to: I am NOT the author, nor a friend of him nor do I know him by any direct or indirect means.

But as being interested in training literature, I want to understand what this book does (and what it does not) compared to all the others out the and on my bookshelf and am thus encouraging every feedback I can get.

Or did I misinterpret?

[blamo]

I purchased a copy of the book.  The book is organized nicely.  To me it was a bit like an abbreviated version of the RCTM with more of a focus on undulating periodization. 

Overall, the book is well written and thought out.  The book is a bit on the pricey side.  If you are already familiar with a fair amount of the climbing training literature, then you probably won't find anything new in this book.  However, the book would definitely make a reasonable place to start reading about training.

[BicepsMou]

So if one has e.g. RCTM, he can save the money. Cause as you say it's not really cheap...
Thanks!

[Mumra]

Sorry I didn't get back to you about the book Biceps Mou (great name btw)
I've not finished reading it yet, but so far I like it. I agreed with blamo that it's a very condensed book, no fluff of faff. I'll let you know what I full think when I finish it off.
Money wise it wasn't cheap, £37 including postage. It's hardback, so I guess that accounts for a lot of the cost. My copy of RCTM is battered after keeping it in my car and dragging it around (rather than reading it cover to cover), so maybe this will be cheaper in the long run 

[Muenchener]

Money wise it wasn't cheap, £37 including postage. It's hardback, so I guess that accounts for a lot of the cost. My copy of RCTM is battered after keeping it in my car and dragging it around (rather than reading it cover to cover), so maybe this will be cheaper in the long run 

I regret getting Training for the New Alpinism as an e-book. Not because I have any intention of engaging in new alpinism - god forbid - but because of the interviews with gnarly Himalayan wads like Peter Habeler & Vojtek Kurtyka. Would have liked to have those and some of the pics on paper.

[rodma]

What's "undulating periodization"?

It's like when you see two or more different flocks of different breeds of sheep at the same time, which requires user of the underused collective collective noun “sheeps”



Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

[BicepsMou]

Undulating periodization:

This link gives a nice overview of the different periodization concepts around, as well as who invented them in which original context.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/a-simple-guide-to-periodization-for-strength-training

[BicepsMou]

Thanks Mumra for the feedback!
...and yeah - I love this BicepsMou Boulder in Bleau (or Font as you'd probably call it) and the (by now far too distant) memories associated with it