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Venues unsuitable for night climbing (Read 30429 times)

slackline

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#50 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 02, 2016, 03:02:20 pm
That makes no difference to what FD is questioning which is that night climbing is the only time to go climbing [outdoors] for many people as B0405413 wrote.

For some people this may be the case but probably not for many.

Will Hunt

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#51 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 02, 2016, 03:03:51 pm
Rather than forming the argument around the notion of the requirement to go bouldering at night, I think it would be more productive to work on the assumption that climbers should continue to take access responsibly where it is reasonable for them to do so.

Since Almscliff is privately owned and is in close proximity to houses I'm not convinced it quite fits the bill. One or two discrete sets of lamps on occasion might not bother the farmer but if large sections of the crags are lit up, with the accompanying traffic going up and down the road after hours, I can see why this might bug him. He might just be using the "worried about people injuring themselves" argument as a way of saying that he's uneasy about a load of strangers hanging around in his field at night.

36chambers

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#52 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 02, 2016, 03:44:14 pm
B0405413's post doesn't change whether you say "for some" or "for many", especially when discussing lamp sessions at a crag where you could argue one person is too many...

Let's stop with the semantics :sorry:

tommytwotone

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#53 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 03, 2016, 02:07:18 pm
(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.

No lamping at Cliff please.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465


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SA Chris

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#54 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 03, 2016, 02:14:47 pm
No lamping at Cliff please.

I think that hitting anyone at any crag is actively discouraged.

tomtom

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#55 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 03, 2016, 05:43:04 pm
No lamping at Cliff please.

I think that hitting anyone at any crag is actively discouraged.

In West Wales Lamping meant driving around in a Land Rover with a sodium light shooting badgers/foxes at night...

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#56 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 03, 2016, 06:09:42 pm
Yeah right. You used it to blind sheep to stop them running way while you sneak up from behind with your velcro gloves.

dave

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#57 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 03, 2016, 06:12:33 pm
If you're out on a night like this it'll be cold lampin'.


tomtom

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#58 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 03, 2016, 06:19:07 pm
Yeah right. You used it to blind sheep to stop them running way while you sneak up from behind with your velcro gloves.

That'd spoil the fun....

Foxes/badgers can't see the light from a sodium light...

scared the shit out of me the first time I saw it, couple of good ol' boys with guns on the back of a landrover outside my house...

galpinos

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#59 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
November 04, 2016, 09:40:07 am
In West Wales Lamping meant driving around in a Land Rover with a sodium light shooting badgers/foxes at night...

It means the same in all rural areas.

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#60 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 09, 2017, 11:15:50 pm
It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go home.


I'm tempted to agree with the simplicity of this argument. I know the Eastern Moors rangers are a bit concerned by seeing static lights on the rocks at any given time and in times of sensitive access issues in many areas, creating new ones seems to be a bit inane to me.

Respecting the environment and access isn't bringing further problems to the table, when access agreements and management plans for places such as Stanage are pretty uncertain.

As climbers we've done so much good work for access and we can just as easily undo it all too, if we are not careful.

To quote Henry Folkard again - it's 'Ours to protect'

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#61 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 10, 2017, 10:46:05 pm
It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go home.

I'm tempted to agree with the simplicity of this argument. I know the Eastern Moors rangers are a bit concerned by seeing static lights on the rocks at any given time and in times of sensitive access issues in many areas, creating new ones seems to be a bit inane to me.

Respecting the environment and access isn't bringing further problems to the table, when access agreements and management plans for places such as Stanage are pretty uncertain.

As climbers we've done so much good work for access and we can just as easily undo it all too, if we are not careful.

To quote Henry Folkard again - it's 'Ours to protect'

And there is also being over-sensitive. If it's truly problematic I'm sure we will get to hear about it from Henry. Sometimes you have to kick back rather than give in straight away. Immediately rolling over second guessing what might be an issue is a bit lame when mountain bikers and runners are lighting up the moors. Lamping  is a potential game changer for the midweek evening boulderer


Iesu

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#62 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 01:41:23 pm
(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.

No lamping at Cliff please.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Not been up there (at night) recently but realistically, how many of the "lamping crews" are likely to take notice of this advice from the BMC?

I have been up there with lights many moons ago (camping gaz lantern + MTB light), but having seen multiple groups lighting the place up like a film set in the recent past I would agree with the sentiment that it is a pretty antisocial activity in terms of others' enjoyment of the outdoors at night. My argument would be that a couple of headtorches plus moderate powered directed spot would be acceptable but these folks are going full on overkill with their lighting set-ups.

Light pollution is a thing and not only in terms of blotting out the stars.  :popcorn:

Durbs

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#63 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 02:42:23 pm
Yeah right. You used it to blind sheep to stop them running way while you sneak up from behind with your velcro gloves.

Foxes/badgers can't see the light from a sodium light...


Eh? Why not? I demand proof and call shenanigans!

Johnny Brown

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#64 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 02:49:43 pm
Quote
If it's truly problematic I'm sure we will get to hear about it from Henry.

You might. He has been wanting to retire from voluntary work for some years now and is showing increasing signs of being serious.

36chambers

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#65 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 02:57:05 pm
(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.

No lamping at Cliff please.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Not been up there (at night) recently but realistically, how many of the "lamping crews" are likely to take notice of this advice from the BMC?

pray tell, what has lead you to this conclusion then?

tommytwotone

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#66 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 02:59:32 pm
(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.

No lamping at Cliff please.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Not been up there (at night) recently but realistically, how many of the "lamping crews" are likely to take notice of this advice from the BMC?

I have been up there with lights many moons ago (camping gaz lantern + MTB light), but having seen multiple groups lighting the place up like a film set in the recent past I would agree with the sentiment that it is a pretty antisocial activity in terms of others' enjoyment of the outdoors at night. My argument would be that a couple of headtorches plus moderate powered directed spot would be acceptable but these folks are going full on overkill with their lighting set-ups.

Light pollution is a thing and not only in terms of blotting out the stars.  :popcorn:

[hot take]


I think it is, sadly, things like Instagram. (Caveat that yes, I have been lamping at Almscliff once (in Oct 2015), and yes, there is a photo from that session on my feed.)


There's no denying that done right, a well-executed night shot of bouldering (no doubt using the ubiquitous OCF) is pretty nice. And they probably generate a good few likes or whatever as well. People want cool stuff on their social media.


It probably doesn't help that (sorry peewee, I know that your pics in the recent YMC guides are of places where this isn't a problem) there are some particularly good examples of it in recent guidebooks. Or that there are numerous pics / vids of top-level climbers online doing it in places in the middle of nowhere where it most probably isn't a problem.


I think ignorance of access sensitivity in general may also be partly to blame. Personally I was heartbroken when access to that-place-that-rhymes-with-seagull-tor got taken away, and that was a wake-up call for me.


I know a good few people (from following on Instagram and so on) who had been doing it just before the ban. I thought at the time things looked to be getting a bit OTT, but tried to be as subtle / non-confrontational as I could about my opinion when discussing it, but at that point my opinion was all that it was.


[/hot take]

[/size]

« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 03:08:57 pm by tommytwotone »

Iesu

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#67 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 03:45:36 pm
I feel suddenly incredibly fortunate to not have any social media presence that might pressurise me into doing stuff like antisocial night-time bouldering for "likes". What is the world coming to? Before long we'll end up with a leader of a major world power with this kind of social media driven outlook.... (friday?:) :boohoo:

tommytwotone

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#68 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 04:20:34 pm
Don't get me wrong - I don't think it's just that.

I'm sure there are people who've got projects they're close to, they're working or whatever during the day, lamps are better / cheaper that they once were, #connies are decent after dark and besides, *everyone* else is doing it...so why not, right?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 04:37:25 pm by tommytwotone »

36chambers

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#69 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 04:21:00 pm
you haven't answered my question.

I feel suddenly incredibly fortunate to not have any social media presence that might pressurise me into doing stuff like antisocial night-time bouldering for "likes". What is the world coming to?

I'm quite certain that people took lamps to the cliff because they actually wanted to go climbing.

Let's not overlook that the catalyst for the ban was because someone hurt themself and the Farmer considered climbing by lamplight to be too dangerous (he may have thought everyone was trad climbing for all we know).

Iesu

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#70 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 17, 2017, 11:01:31 pm
Deary me how terribly unthoughtdul of me not to reply forthwith! 

Do you understand the difference between a question and a conclusion? (Hint: ?)

Johnny Brown

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#71 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 18, 2017, 10:58:29 am
Quote
the catalyst for the ban was because someone hurt themself

That's interesting - I don't think anyone mentioned it before? Any details? As in, were they bouldering, was it dark when the accident happened?

James Malloch

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#72 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 18, 2017, 11:16:11 am
Quote
the catalyst for the ban was because someone hurt themself

That's interesting - I don't think anyone mentioned it before? Any details? As in, were they bouldering, was it dark when the accident happened?



Quote
I think there was a recent broken leg and an MR call out.

From the other channel. Doesn't sound like it was during a lamp session but the land owner is concerned about the increased risk at night. Though this is second-hand information which I've then copied. Sounds plausible though.

nai

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#73 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 18, 2017, 11:23:27 am
36C mentioned it previously in the thread.  More details might be available on the MR team page?

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,26747.msg535991.html#msg535991

Johnny Brown

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#74 Re: Venues unsuitable for night climbing
January 18, 2017, 11:51:52 am
Presumably:
Quote
07/05/2015 - 21:15
   
Almscliffe Crag, North Rigton
   
The team was called out by the ambulance service to assist with a 27 year old male climber who had fallen 3 meters at Almscliffe Crag. Team members assisted ambulance service personnel to treat the casualty before he was stretchered to a waiting ambulance.

 

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