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Anatomy survey - are you missing a muscle? (Read 14281 times)

Muesli

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Not present on either side
No Dupuytrens
font 7b
More or less equally rubbish on slopers and crimps


JamieG

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Seems to be present on both sides. Much more on obvious on right (am right handed).
No Dupuytrens as far as I can tell.
Much better on crimps than slopers.
Climbing 10 years.
7A

paulwelford

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Thanks very much to everyone for their helpful responses.
I now have 120 responses which is pretty good!
Thanks again and hope you all had a great weekend  :)

tomtom

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Paul (and general interest) not sure if this is relevant to your study - but I get into work early - and the cleaners for the building all colonise our tea room before the rest of the building starts. Anyway, I was chatting to them this morning - and 2 out of the 6 there had undergone carpal tunnel procedures (one on both hands) in the last few years. All that mop gripping and squeezing apparently... Got me wondering if this might be another grouping of people with Dups etc.....

Johnny Brown

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There were some miners on a programme about the River Taff last week with bad Dupuytrens, I missed the start but it sounded like it was common amongst older miners.

andy_e

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That's a friend's brother presenting that programme, I thought you couldn't get it outside of Wales? Was it good?

</hijack>

Johnny Brown

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It was better than I expected. Your mates bro came across well, although the accent didn't fit. Thinking back I was in Wales at the time, but it is on iplayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06zyl2v/the-river-taff-with-will-millard-episode-2

edit: it was episode 2. Cod hands at 8:30, he blames vibrating tools.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 12:31:16 pm by Johnny Brown »

andy_e

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Yeah, Wisbech and South Wales aren't the most similar accents. Did you see his Hunters of the South Seas programme too? Fascinating.

Potash

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Yes. Both arms.
7c+, font 7b, E7.

I was historically poor openhanded due to spending the initial years of my climbing on crimpy rock but developed stronger open handed technique ok after injuring tendons and moving nearer to gritstone.

No evidence of Dupuytrens.

paulwelford

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Thank for your comments TomTom.
Yes, the condition is more common among those doing heavy physical work, such as miners.
They also tend to have poorer access to healthcare, so often do receive treatment until the contractures are advanced. I used to work in the Valleys in South Wales. Interesting place!
Thanks again!

Ru

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I have it on my left, but not right. Boulder 8B max. Stronger on crimps. Slight sign of dupuytrens on my right (at least I used to, it seems to have spontaneously cleared up over that past few years).

Dexter

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Got it in my right but not sure in my left as I have a fair amount of scar tissue from a wrist tendon snap (may have snapped this tendon too). Boulder 8A and fairly good on slopers but I have weird wrist popping on some slopers (with my left)

slackline

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From an old thread the absence of the palmaris longus does not appear to affect grip or pinch strengths...

Abstract

The palmaris longus tendon is the most frequently harvested tendon for reconstructive plastic and hand surgical procedures. A question patients often ask is whether loss of the palmaris longus will result in any functional deficit. In order to answer this question, the presence or absence of the palmaris longus muscle was clinically determined in 418 normal Asian subjects. All subjects also had their grip and pinch strengths measured. No statistically significant difference was seen in the grip or pinch strength measurements between subjects who had a palmaris longus tendon and those who did not. This study demonstrates that absence of the palmaris longus is not associated with a decrease of grip or pinch strength.

Feel any better?  :)

The absence of a "statistically significant difference" (which in this context means a p-value less than the completely arbitrary threshold of 0.05) does not mean that there is no difference and the authors conveniently omit the quantification from their abstract.

The numbers are...

AbsentPresent
Right Hand Grip strength (kg)n = 12n = 406
Mean (SD)35 (12)30 (12)
Median3128
Range*21-536-63

Right Hand Pinch strength (kg)n = 12n = 406
Mean (SD)8 (3)7 (2)
Median77
Range*4-122-14
Right Hand Grip strength (kg)n = 19n = 399
Mean (SD)26 (11)18 (10)
Median2526
Range*9-495-64

Right Hand Pinch strength (kg)n = 19n = 399
Mean (SD)7 (2)7 (2)
Median67
Range*4-102-14

* This may be a mis-labelling in the article as its more common to report the Inter-Quartile Range (IQR) than the absolute range


Another study from 2013 looking at differences in grip strength in Turkish kids aged 6-11 didn't find any difference between presence/absence of the muscle on grip strength either (table 2 they have performed a large number of tests, but made no attempt to adjust for the consequences of multiple testing).

Aside from the absence of evidence I'm curious as to what motivated the hypothesis...

I'm interested to know whether it is more commonly found in top level climbers as I think it may confer benefit when climbing on slopers.

...and how the requested responses will help answer the question as overall performance in terms of climbing grades is not necessarily a reliable proxy for being good on slopers (e.g. a given individual might prefer the crimp and climb boulders/routes without slopers and if they have the muscle/tendon their grade will not reflect any benefit).

Perhaps looking at the results of the survey might be interesting, have you collated the results from UKB and UKC responses and made any summarisation of them yet paulwelford?

Andy B

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I can't find the tendon in either arm.
No dupuytrens in either hand (touch wood).
Better on crimps than slopers.
Font 8b.

Oldmanmatt

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I have the tendon in both arms and nascent Duptrens in both, more pronounced in the left.
I'm right handed.
I hardly climb anymore, but up to 2011 was reliably achieving 7C, though I'd describe myself (at that time) as a 7A climber (that which I could usually put away in a single session at first sight, there were exceptions).


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Coops_13

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No tendon in either arm
No Dupuytrens
Better on slopers (I am heavy with weak fingers)
Sport: 7b/+ Boulder 7B/+

slackline

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What do the results look like?  :-\

36chambers

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Since originally checking for Dupuytren's contracture in February this year, and confirming that nothing was present, I noticed a month ago that I now actually have an obvious nodule in my left hand. Furthermore it hurts about 2/10 if I apply pressure on it.

Following a very brief google of Dupuytren's contracture, I am now somewhat grossed out by the pictures and the concept of it  :'( and was wondering if I'll ever realise my dream of climbing 8C :boohoo:

Considering a number of people on here seem to have said nodules, can someone please tell me whether I'm being theatrical, and that 8C is just a number anyway :jab:

Footwork

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Since originally checking for Dupuytren's contracture in February this year, and confirming that nothing was present, I noticed a month ago that I now actually have an obvious nodule in my left hand. Furthermore it hurts about 2/10 if I apply pressure on it.

Following a very brief google of Dupuytren's contracture, I am now somewhat grossed out by the pictures and the concept of it  :'( and was wondering if I'll ever realise my dream of climbing 8C :boohoo:

Considering a number of people on here seem to have said nodules, can someone please tell me whether I'm being theatrical, and that 8C is just a number (and letter) anyway :jab:

Rule one. Don't use google. Go and see a GP if you're worried.

Yours,
A hypochondriac

Edit: sounds like a lot of people climb hard with it though. and yes 8C is just a number  :P

 

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