[wMickey]

For me it's not so much to do with what the elbow is doing but more what the wrist is doing. Anecdotally I've suffered from tendonitis for the last 15 or so years but keep it in check these days with an understanding of what hurts it and what helps it.

When I first started getting it I would just try to keep climbing on easier problems at the wall but this just made it worse. I later realised I could train on my 55 without any pain at all. I believe this is because a bent wrist position stretches and aggravates the tendon more than a straight wrist position. So climbing on jugs down the wall, your wrist is bent the whole time as your hand is going right into the jug, whereas hanging on a steep board on small edges your wrist is straight so no pain.

When it does flare up, I do reverse wrist curls with a heavy dumbbell and this really helps.

[slackline]

Not overly insightful and rather broad but the American Journal of Epidemiology contains this study which found...

Smoking, obesity, repetitive movements, and forceful activities independently of each other showed significant associations with medial epicondylitis.

You could look and see if subsequent work which cites this paper includes more specific studies in climbers and/or search sports journals for relevant articles.

[Hugh]

Its probably nothing to do with the actual elbows or any specific climbing action that causes it, I reckon in most cases it'll be down to something in back and/or shoulders.

This was certainly the case with me when I had it badly.  Thoracic spine problems and nerve impingement in the shoulder are through bad posture/computer work was the root cause of the initial niggles which then flared up due to climbing and too much fingerboarding (that is climbing aggressively aggravated an existing condition rather than being the cause of the problem).  The first physio I went to sorted out the golfers elbow and he continued with this diagnosis even when it came back.  A change of physio and a new diagnosis determined the root cause and fixed it pretty quickly.  Deadlifting then stopped it happening again.

Very much agree with this - my golfers was aggravated to the point of nerve damage by climbing (particularly deep locks), but underlying was bad posture when working at the computer. Spending hours a day getting increasingly hunched over had created fundamental imbalances, and it was only when a physio spotted this that things started getting better. Interestingly, a colleague of mine who isn't a climber had the same issues due to bad posture.

[thekettle]

Some common factors I've found to Golfer's Elbow sufferers (anecdotal evidence only):
Front-on, slow/static, bent-armed climbing technique (onsight climbers seem to suffer more that redpointers/boulderers), deep lock moves, wide pinches, poor scapular stability (shoulder/postural issues). Those with falling issues also seem to suffer, maybe because fear can slow them down and causes an over-gripping static style. Also climbers with a strong one-sided preference get it worse in the elbow on the side they prefer facing. I'd zoom out from individual climbing moves and see if any other the above are common themes in your general climbing/posture.

[tomtom]

Thanks - no deep lock moves (not my forte) not much pinching either, nor one sided ness. My posture is not great - but much better than it was a year ago.. Which doesn't help..

My training is (at the moment) all climbing about 50/50 wall outdoors at the moment. I also try and mix up what I do on different sessions (overhanging one time, walls other, crimps, big holds etc). I do no campussing - nor repeat moves in hard situations (eg on a woody).

Possibly this is the problem with figuring out the possible causes! But I'm fairly sure the variety is good!!

[tresor]

For me it's not so much to do with what the elbow is doing but more what the wrist is doing. Anecdotally I've suffered from tendonitis for the last 15 or so years but keep it in check these days with an understanding of what hurts it and what helps it.

When I first started getting it I would just try to keep climbing on easier problems at the wall but this just made it worse. I later realised I could train on my 55 without any pain at all. I believe this is because a bent wrist position stretches and aggravates the tendon more than a straight wrist position. So climbing on jugs down the wall, your wrist is bent the whole time as your hand is going right into the jug, whereas hanging on a steep board on small edges your wrist is straight so no pain.

When it does flare up, I do reverse wrist curls with a heavy dumbbell and this really helps.

Seems to be the same for me, never made the conclusion it was about the wrist just thought it was the amount of time I spent on the wall that made the difference but this seems more correct thinking about it.

My weight seems to be important too, never had elbow problems under a certain weight but going over that mark seems to give me 75% chance to accuire some elbow issues


//Tresor

[dave k]

Lots of info about how to help/prevent/fix Golfers - but not much about what specific climbing action causes it?

I ask as I've slightly (managable) tweaky elbows at the moment - but can't pin down what 'type' of climbing action seems to aggravate it. E.G is it crimping, big compression moves, pinches... (those are just suggestions - I have not idea really)... When I had tennis elbow 20 odd years back - it was clearly related to pullups (mainly doing too many) but I can't pin these present niggles to anything specific...

I've had a few golfers elbow twinges mainly from the gym rather than climbing. What always brings in on for me is stress on pronator teres when hand it rotated outwards or flat to the wall, pull up bar, deadlift bar or mouse/steering wheel as moose pointed out. That's obviously not very helpful because you can't do much about it. I did once use one of those ergonomic keyboards which felt quite comfy. In the gym I can avoid stressing it fairly easily using different bar types.

From memory I think Dave Mac's injury book highlights crimping, especially with hands close together as when doing pullups on a narrow fingerboard as tough on pronator teres, but I might be totally imagining that because it fits my theory.

I have not come across that advice in Make or Break yet. He mentions that deep locks are a cause and recommends more dynamic climbing, although as always he says more research is needed.

[tomtom]

Mine has now gone - largely due to some fairly hard stretching and dumbell eccentrics. Cleared up nicely.

[Schnell]

Lots of info about how to help/prevent/fix Golfers - but not much about what specific climbing action causes it?

I ask as I've slightly (managable) tweaky elbows at the moment - but can't pin down what 'type' of climbing action seems to aggravate it. E.G is it crimping, big compression moves, pinches... (those are just suggestions - I have not idea really)... When I had tennis elbow 20 odd years back - it was clearly related to pullups (mainly doing too many) but I can't pin these present niggles to anything specific...

I've had a few golfers elbow twinges mainly from the gym rather than climbing. What always brings in on for me is stress on pronator teres when hand it rotated outwards or flat to the wall, pull up bar, deadlift bar or mouse/steering wheel as moose pointed out. That's obviously not very helpful because you can't do much about it. I did once use one of those ergonomic keyboards which felt quite comfy. In the gym I can avoid stressing it fairly easily using different bar types.

From memory I think Dave Mac's injury book highlights crimping, especially with hands close together as when doing pullups on a narrow fingerboard as tough on pronator teres, but I might be totally imagining that because it fits my theory.

I have not come across that advice in Make or Break yet. He mentions that deep locks are a cause and recommends more dynamic climbing, although as always he says more research is needed.

Yep it says that crimping "activates the wrist flexors more forcefully than openhanding. Overuse of crimping aggravates the condition markedly, and may be an important cause".

[TheTwig]

Having suffered with tennis elbow (alot) and golfers elbow (occasionally) I have to admit I seriously have no idea what causes flare-ups of the Golfers. Tennis elbow seems to mostly be brought on by sustained small crimps on slightly overhanging walls, though not always. Golfers is almost completely random, though I suspect alot of it has to do with computer use.

[boxmonkey]

I thought dead hanging on finger boards contributed to this elbow issue and that holding arms slightly bent was the better technique? Is that not right or am I thinking of another elbow problem?

[Coops_13]

Having a large number of days on without rest days is what does it to me, but this is quite stupid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SA Chris]

Typical pattern is onset a couple of days after activity.

After you have been sitting at your desk working for 2 days maybe?

[petejh]

+1 for computer use and poor shoulder/back posture as root cause.

Intermitent golfers and tennis over years, always seems to fade away when I remind myself to focus on stretching back, chest, shoulders.

Interestingly also recently discovered how much posture can affect arm strength/power when there's a bit of shoulder/neck nerve impingemnt involved. A subtle chin tuck is all it takes to notice a difference in my right arm. 

[rodma]

Interestingly also recently discovered how much posture can affect arm strength/power when there's a bit of shoulder/neck nerve impingemnt involved. A subtle chin tuck is all it takes to notice a difference in my right arm.

i found something similar by setting my scapula prior to trying any maximal efforts. this also made a massive difference to grip strength, which would not necessarily be obvious (where it might be obvious for a shoulder rotation). went from being nowhere near able to close a CoC 1.5 in either hand to closing it immediately and with relative ease in each hand by setting scapula prior to squeezing

[creedence]

I concur on the computer use.  The day after a hard climbing session, if I have to use the mouse all day, it plays havoc with my elbow.  I find one of those foam wrist supports helps a lot.  As does trying to use as many keyboard shortcuts as possible.  (I'm a designer, so don't type much, but do lots of mouse work.)

[petejh]

Forgot to say I also got myself a microsoft wave keyboard and evoluent mouse. Really seemed to help calm down elbow/forearm strain at the office - noticed an improvement within a week although it might have been the placebo of dropping £150+.