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Recent drop in performance - help needed (Read 17215 times)

Duncan campbell

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Recent drop in performance - help needed
January 18, 2016, 12:57:00 pm
Dear UKB training/crushing/typing experts,

Looking for a bit of advice that admittedly I should have asked Tom Randall when he had his Q&A on Friday but I didn't think about it then and was also out when he was on...

I am currently suffering from a massive drop in performance which I am finding a little bit stressful/disheartening. Only a few months ago I was potentially at my strongest ever bouldering-wise and that came after my best ever year in terms of tradding and sport-climbing. My performance started to drop come early december and it has steadily declined since. Now, I just don't feel the same power/ability/something and Im unsure how to get it back!

I rested for a week before xmas (may have done a few pressups and situps + went on a run with me old man xmas day) and then went out to spain for a climbing holiday where I mainly had fun but despite having not tied in for a few months previous to the trip and climbing badly early on, within a few days I had matched my previous best onsight and by then end had onsighted another at the grade. (as it was a short trip I climbed 6 days on - though these weren't necessarily massive days)

I guess I should maybe explain a little about my lifestyle to maybe get a better answer...

I work Mon-Fri 7am-5pm so wake up at 6am and get home at 6pm and am outside for large amounts of the day. (I started this job around the beginning of october)

I usually take monday evening off as a full rest evening.

Then I typically go to the wall tues,weds,thurs for a few hours 6:30/7 to around 10. I mainly boulder but occasionally do a bit on the circuit board to retain a bit of fitness. occasionally do some pressups/situps/stretching etc at some point too
I then go home, smash in some dinner and go to bed at 11.

recently have been going to the works yoga on tuesday or thurs every other week

friday night I dont climb but often go to the pub for a few.

Sat/sunday is spent climbing (in recent months this has been more fucking indoor climbing. having been able to get out recently im totally useless on rock, which is probably partly due to drop in form partly because ive barely climbed on the grit this winter so havent got the knack.

Only other thing I can think of that may have something to do with it is general relationship shambles that began just as my performance started dropping off... though in the past this hasn't had an effect...

I imagine everyone will say rest - the problem is in recent years I have started to get really really bored of miling around the house + find exercise helps me sleep/feel happy. I love running but hate it on roads in the dark. Also part of me worries that rest wont help.

also how much rest/what exercise I can do until I can climb again would be valuable knowledge... considering doing some movement stuff potentially and/or try and figure out vague training plan.

I fully subscribe to the whole "peak + Trough" performance thing and I can deal with this trough if it doesnt affect my trad and sport climbing. Would still be good to hear what the UKB gurus have to say... if anything.

Thanks in advance!

Dunc

TMR

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Overtraining/ not enough rest. Sounds like you rarely get 8 hours of sleep and only have monday night off! Considering that you started a new full time job in october and started your "decline" around december i would be inclined to say that you're asking too much from your body. It's amazing how much of a long term effect too much stress and not enough sleep can have!

I would also mention that your mid week "training" (you don't use this word!) seems pretty hap- hazard. Is going to the wall for close to 4 hours and doing "a bit of bouldering and a bit on the circuit board" the most efficient use of your limited time and energy? I had some issues with long term fatigue early last year, and as a result started experimenting with shorter (2hrs max) regimented sessions and a lot more rest. 6 months down the line i am considerably stronger and fitter! I've been using a slightly modified version of the red program (link below) with some aerocap thrown in for good measure. The cycle of 3/1 training/rest weeks works really well for me.

http://www.stevemaischtraining.com/workout-structure-global.html


shark

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I rested for a week before xmas (may have done a few pressups and situps + went on a run with me old man xmas day) and then went out to spain for a climbing holiday where I mainly had fun but despite having not tied in for a few months previous to the trip and climbing badly early on, within a few days I had matched my previous best onsight and by then end had onsighted another at the grade. (as it was a short trip I climbed 6 days on - though these weren't necessarily massive days)

Tell me about it. After a similar week in Chulilla I'm struggling a week later to stay awake let alone climb. My plan is just to fingerboard, do some weights and pull ups till I feel strong enough to climb at a half decent level. Treat it as the end of a cycle. You've clearly dug yourself into a hole. Maybe take a week off before even starting to build back up again. Be guided by how you feel rather than than prescribed rest. You hear horror stories about super active types ending up with ME. It sucks to start at the bottom of the ladder again. Play the long game. Keep the faith. At least it is winter

Looking back at my diary in Nov 2013 I had 8 full days rest after an intensive week at Kalymnos. It then took nearly three weeks to get back to a decent standard.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 03:22:11 pm by shark »

mctrials23

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Sounds like you have just dug yourself into a hole basically. If you are climbing as much as you are then you simply can't perform well the whole time. You would need to use a few of the days as very light recovery workouts in order to resist burnout.

I thought the general principle is that when you train, you did a recovery hole. If you finish fresh then that hole is small and you will recover to your baseline quickly. If you keep beating yourself day after day you will dig that hole deeper and deeper and never recover fully. Basically 2 steps backwards, 1 step forwards. Eventually you will see a serious drop in performance. Its quite easy to mistake that as a sign to train harder instead of needing to rest more.

Basically I would take the best part of a week off at least. Like almost complete rest.

abarro81

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So you had your best trip ever by the sounds of it, then you've been poor for a few weeks? Sounds standard to me, I often have that. And whilst it may be a sign of overreaching (doubt you're really overtrained) it may just be a dip that you have to keep plugging away through..

petejh

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In a year's time it'll seem like an insignificant dip in an otherwise upwards general trend. Or you'll never climb again. Whichever, it doesn't do to force mental energy for too long if it's in short supply.

Do something different for a week, two weeks, a month. Go hillwalking the snow's down. You don't forget how to climb and gains already made return more quickly than achieving new levels.

And consider yourself lucky not to be injured (are you injured?). From someone who's just had his first bouldering sesh last weekend following 5 months of injury (inc. the last 8 weeks with zero climbing). Now I'm psyched for the upcurve again.

jwi

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If you peaked before, you should be in the transition phase now? Isn't that normal?

danm

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Mate, you need to get better at sitting around doing fuck all and relaxing/recovering. I know I make it look easy, but chilling is a skill you learn the same as anything else by practice, practice and more practice.  ;)

Kingy

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Hey Duncan

I would agree with what other folk have said, you need to rest more. How about taking weds off as well as monday? That's what I did for years (and still do mostly) cos I'm mostly beasted after a hard session on tues and like to train when fresh on the thurs session. 2 hard sessions in the week will mean that you're primed for the weekend's cranking. You'll be fresher mentally as well as physically when you rock up to the wall. When I go to the wall 3 days on the trot, by the 3rd day, I'm feeling a bit jaded at best and it can be like flogging a dead horse.

Re your perceived drop in form, I reckon this is an illusion as your body is just overworked at the minute, you need to get that box fresh feeling back when setting off on a hard send or indoor project where you're feeling strong and confident before you even set off.

When I came back from Suirana, I had a few sessions on the fingerboard that were pretty woeful but guess what, I bounced back pretty quick, i was just knackered from having pushed it on hols with little/ no rest.

Keep the faith hombre!


submaximal gains

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It sounds like long term overtraining; if so reducing the training load for a few weeks until you were recovered enough to start slowly increasing it would be effective. It's not uncommon at all in people after they've been pushing themsleves hard for a long time, and it is partly about recovering mentally as well as physically, simply changing how you exercise would be unlikely to help.

 - looking through a couple of books I have, training for the new alpinism (which tends to be the clearest) gives this list of signs you're overtraining (as well as poor performance):
progressivley going to bed later and less hours sleeping
loss of enthusiasm
irritability
persistent low mood
weight loss

If you wanted to search more this sometimes get's called cental fatigue syndrome or burnout if it continues to worsen.

On a positive note, learning how to recognise and deal with overtraining now will allow you keep progressing and deal with similiar problems again in the future. Sorry if all that's done is muddy the water, I'm not the best person to explain this; but I have experienced several times after climbing trips and exam periods :-(

highrepute

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I limit myself to two hours at the wall Dunc. And Like tmr I'm strongest I've been in a while. Getting dinner a bit earlier and to bed a bit earlier because I get back from wall around 9 rather than 10 helped a lot for me.

If I don't eat enough or sleep enough then I struggle. Similarly, after a intense trip I often need to take it easy for a bit.

a dense loner

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If you're going to the works yoga i'll presume you're going to the works most of the other days? You're there mostly between 3-3.5 hours after a 10 hour day at work outside, I'll also presume you're mostly doing circuits for this time (substitute circuits for routes at foundry or whatever). Your body's spending the day fighting off the cold outside, it's freezing out there for those of you that work in offices, then you're asking it to do 3 hours at least of other work. You're just doing too much. Maybe spend a day or two during the week down the wall or like has been mentioned cut down the time there drastically, and mix up what you've been doing so you don't know you're performing shit. i.e. if you don't campus start a bit of a routine once a week where you spend a couple of hours just campussing with long rests in-between.

abarro81

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Long term overtraining having had best onsight trip ever 3 weeks ago?? Whoever said that is fuckin crackers.

submaximal gains

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By long term over training I meant that it was the length of time (months) without a period to recuperate, instead of a shorter time over training e.g. like doing strength exercises so often that they don't have the opportunity to recover and supercompensation doesn't occur.

abarro81

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He had a week off before Christmas though - that's less than a month ago. Realistically it's likely just a little dip after a little peak. Hitting it too hard straight after a trip can often burn you out a bit. We're talking more like slightly overreached than long term over trained.
Duncan - have a few weeks where you take it easy and do less than normal

mrjonathanr

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Sounds like you expect to be permanently turbocharged. Get more rest I'd say. Have a break, then spend a few weeks building up again. I took 10 weeks off in the autumn, climbed my hardest indoor problem to date this evening- decrease the quantity and focus on quality a bit more.

A sign of proper overtraining is elevated resting heart rate btw. I doubt you're really overtrained, just a bit tired.

ashtond6

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How much of a dip?
After a huge personal goal was achieved I dropped by a full French number grade and was exhausted for a month...

I also reckon the back to back days at the gym is bed. 2-3 days rest has helped me. I now do a week with 4 climbing days then a week with 3. It has helped my injuries out

Ps you climb a lot better than me, just wanted to give some thoughts

webbo

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Sounds like you expect to be permanently turbocharged. Get more rest I'd say. Have a break, then spend a few weeks building up again. I took 10 weeks off in the autumn, climbed my hardest indoor problem to date this evening- decrease the quantity and focus on quality a bit more.

A sign of proper overtraining is elevated resting heart rate btw. I doubt you're really overtrained, just a bit tired.
A lower than usual resting heart rate can also be an indication of overtraining.

moose

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Bloody hell. .... I'm in awe of your appetite for training / climbing. I've started finger-boarding in the last few months but for the 6/7 years before that, the only exercise of any description I've done is weekend climbing sessions (plus holidays).... performing noticeably worse Sunday compared to Saturday. That said,I still progress in my meagre way and anything much more and I get elbow niggles. Over training strikes me as very likely indeed given your schedule..

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Correct me if I am wrong but you are going to the wall for 3 hours Tuesday, Wednesday AND Thursday - EVERY WEEK!?

I'm amazed you aren't more messed up than you already are, let alone the long days at work etc etc etc.

Seriously I would try resting a bit more. And I don't mean just have a complete day off, I mean try and have a complete month where you scale things back a bit in general and see how your body responds, then gradually dial up the intensity. Worst case scenario, you train a little less hard, best case scenario you start listening to your body and carry on crushing!

Duncan campbell

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Thanks all for your replies - definitely a lot of interesting stuff to consider - especially that steve Maisch training schedule!

I'm going to take it a bit easier for the next few weeks and see how things go... I never really thought i had a particularly massive appetite for trainging/climbing potentially because of living with Rob Greenwood who never seems to need any rest (though he does sleep more than me - soft bastard!) however having now moved into the flipping champ AKA michaela tracy's house she sleeps even more!! I had listened to barrows & ondra's training beta podcasts and was worried when barrows said he got loads of sleep but then ondra said he got similar to me so felt better.

The cold temps at work I think are something to do with it - im a skinny little runt as it is so the cold affects me quite a lot...

Im not 100% sure how much I've dipped but on the previous good form in November I did a a 7B and a load of 7As and 7A+ on the Works Comp wall, ticked more than i usually would of whites and murples plus all the wasps - prob 6B+-7A+. it feels like now maybe 6C is my max but but due to a lack of resets I haven't really tested how well im going on fresh problems - will maybe try this at the foundry tonight though might do some easy routes instead...

Its gonna be really tough reducing my amount of exercise - in recent years ive begun to struggle to sit around and do nothing... it helps me sleep and defo helps with my internal mood.

I may also look at my diet - whilst im not unhealthy and not fat or anything i do have a bit of a sweet tooth and this cold weather definitely causes me to eat more calorific foods (some days all i can think about after being outside is eating chips/pie/pizza/etc) although i eat prob manage the eat around 5 bits of fruit and veg a day everyday.

thanks again for all your replies I will try and post up how I get on so it useful for others (myself) in future!!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 08:12:56 am by Duncan campbell »

dave

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Tip - don't judge your performance on indoor grades. They are bollocks at the best of times.

a dense loner

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Completely agree with Dave, one of the reasons I suggested something like campussing for an evening. A change if nothing else.

tomtom

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Tip - don't judge your performance on indoor grades. They are bollocks at the best of times.

Indeed - and inconsistent bollocks too. One setters 7A+ is anothers 6C..

T_B

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Jeez, how much sleep do you want?

The big thing that jumps out at me is eating late, after training. I used to do this when I was young. I reckon it's way, way better to get fueled up before you train. Then 'smash in' a protein shake before bed time. I also eat and drink whilst I'm training, something I've started doing in the last 6 months. I recover quickly (also cos I do short 2hr max sessions, which I'm always bannging on about).

I'm an old git now but if I did't eat my evening meal till just before bed time I'd be absolutely knackered the next day.

Also, stop eating loads of sugar, cut out bread and pasta and reduce your caffeine intake.


 

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