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Starting on a fingerboard (Read 20732 times)

bendavison

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#25 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 08, 2015, 12:00:49 pm
Strangely enough it was an idea I got from something Alex Barrows said in another thread, where he was talking about why he didn't like strength training - cos 20 hangs, 2 min rest, it's too short a session. For me, right now, that sounds perfect.

Moral of the story. Don't listen to anything abarrows says, especially if about strength training  :jab:

Murph

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#26 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 08, 2015, 01:09:47 pm
Hi Alex, FWIW, here's the thread, not sure if it was about alternate one armers?
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=21419.0

Re-reading it now it appears that Sasquatch made the same points there, that 18-19 reps is unlikely to be max anything. Funny how I didn't remember that but remembered your 20 in 40 mins comment.

Anyway I've heard it this time.
I'm going to put in a couple of sessions a week on repeaters to baseline
Then a week trying to work out a max session and how I'll do it (might swap out the BM1000 for a 2000). There's no sense me saying what this is now.
Then 8 weeks of max hangs.
All recorded religiously, supplemented by stretches, core and easy sessions in the garage/works
Current: 7Aish standard, one recent 7B tick
Goal: more 7Bs

Foolproof.



Sasquatch

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#27 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 08, 2015, 10:15:56 pm
Good Luck!

I still think strength training is lame and way less fun than enduro  :P

If I got to do enduro training in Spain or the south of France I'd probably agree :)

James Malloch

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#28 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 09, 2015, 03:56:33 pm
Many thanks for the replies everyone. I managed to get my phone wet (and break it) this weekend so haven't had a chance to read through them all properly. I'll have a read soon though when I'm home from work and have my laptop.

Regarding the goals that have been mentioned, I don't really have anything specific in mind. I'll probably boulder a bit more this winter due to the weather but I'm more of a sport climber really. I just think that doing any of the exercises and making progress will help me in either pursuit which makes it harder (or maybe easier) to choose what to do.

Anyway, I'll have a proper look later and start trying some sessions this week!

James Malloch

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#29 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 02:40:12 pm
As Nai mentioned, it may depend a little bit on what you're traing towards, and what's your weakness.

I think starting off with something like the RCTM intermediate program(see the ancap on a FB Thread) for 2 workouts a week for 4-6 weeks is a good bet.  Get a timer like the seconds app that can be programmed for the full workout, and the just turn the brain off and follow directions.  After you do a cycle of repeaters, you should be good to progress to max hangs.  I think starting off with repeaters helps you learn and dial in better form as you're doing so many more hangs per workout.  Really focus on the form though. 


I've been looking at the various suggestions and I'm going to start by giving this workout a go this week. I'm assuming you mean this one: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,26487.msg504485.html#msg504485

Before starting, could you/anyone define a few things for me please (hopefully they're not too stupid questions...)

What do the acronyms "MR" and "IMR" mean in the exercises? e.g. "IMR 2-pad 3F pocket"

Also, what would count as a pinch on a fingerboard?

Thanks!

Edit - thinking about it, is a pinch just sticking your thumb in one of the lower pockets/holds? If so - is there a certain type of hold you should use for this exercise? Gentle sloper/crimp etc?

andy_e

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#30 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 02:44:00 pm
Index, Middle, Ring, at a guess...

James Malloch

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#31 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 02:46:08 pm
Makes sense - thanks!

36chambers

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#32 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 03:04:56 pm

Edit - thinking about it, is a pinch just sticking your thumb in one of the lower pockets/holds? If so - is there a certain type of hold you should use for this exercise? Gentle sloper/crimp etc?

The fingerboard I think there are referring to has specifically designed pinch holds. You can see pictures for all the different grips half way down this page:
https://www.trainingbeta.com/mark-and-mike-anderson-guide-to-hangboard-training/

If you are using a beastmaker, I'm not sure what the best way of pinching it is. For a BM2000 you can hold the slopers and pinch the bottom of the incut, but I think that just makes holding the slopers easier, rather than give you an alternative grip to work. I personally have my BM nailed to a large board with additional blocks at either side for pinching.

Muenchener

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#33 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 03:07:09 pm
Edit - thinking about it, is a pinch just sticking your thumb in one of the lower pockets/holds? If so - is there a certain type of hold you should use for this exercise? Gentle sloper/crimp etc?

The Anderson Bros fingerboard has dedicated pinches. As an alternative, Steve Maisch recommends hanging weights from a piece of wood then picking it up. I've been trying this for a while; picking up a 20kg kettlebell by pinching a 40mm piece of smooth finished pine is pretty hard.

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#34 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 03:14:52 pm
Thanks again for the replies. I'll see what I can knock up and give it a go!

mctrials23

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#35 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 04:39:14 pm
I have been doing some pinches in the same manner by using a piece of wood with a weight hanging off it and about 20kg is pretty hard.

Muenchener

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#36 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 17, 2015, 11:51:44 pm
I have been doing some pinches in the same manner by using a piece of wood with a weight hanging off it and about 20kg is pretty hard.

Yeah, I've backed off to 16kg; with that I can do sensible ca 8 to 10 second "max" hangs. With 20kg it was touch & go whether I cpould lift it under control at all.

Sasquatch

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#37 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
November 18, 2015, 12:50:34 am
Nothing to add to the responses to the ?'s

Good Luck, and 1 last piece of advice - check the ego.  This is serious training and there's no place for ego here.  All it will do is get you hurt.  Take your time, and if anything err on the easy side for a few sessions until you get into the rhythm of it. 

Murph

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#38 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
December 30, 2015, 07:34:09 pm
ok if I post a follow up to this thread?

Have been trying what I think is strength training on a fingerboard...after a bit of trial and error I worked out I could hang the small crimps on a BM1000 with +24kgs for 6 seconds, so I thought that was a good thing to start training max hangs. After just a few hangs I wasn't able to hang even for 4 seconds so I thought this was the right level. Thought I should be aiming for 6 reps of 10 seconds as my target before moving things up a gear.

However, a few sessions in and I've just managed 1 second short of 6x10. So I'm nearly at my goal, which clearly wasn't hard enough.

Am putting up the BM2000 next to the 1000 but the small crimp really doesn't seem to be much smaller. I am imagining that it won't take long before I can max out on them as well. I had thought the 2000 would have much smaller holds but that isn't really the case. 

So, with the goal being max strength for short Boulder problems (thinking one or two moves like Soft on the G) what is my best training option now - smaller hold is a given, but should I be going for more reps or adding more weight or cocking about with two/three fingers etc?

Much obliged.

tomtom

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#39 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
December 30, 2015, 07:48:44 pm
Hi Murph - I think the small hold on the 1000 is actually
Ly smaller than on the 2000!

Sounds like you have plenty of finger strength - which is useful for crimps but probably won't help much for soft on the G... Which from memory is open handed and slopey..

Can you hang the 45's yet?

Murph

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#40 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
December 30, 2015, 08:47:47 pm
Hi tomtom,

I must admit I didn't believe you so I got the ruler out. Blimey you're right! The 2000 crimp is bigger than the 1000. Im a bit shocked. Have to wonder if it's worth putting it up now.

Can I hold the 45? Never tried but I doubt it - held the 35(?) on the 1000 for a measly 9 seconds the other day so maybe I could for a couple of seconds maybe not tho. you're suggesting that would be a useful thing to train?

I'm probably using the wrong term when I say crimps, I just mean the small holds, soft on g is an open handed right hand start....when I use the BM "crimps" I am hanging as open handed as possible - I rarely actually crimp anything. That make sense?

Murph

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#41 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 04, 2016, 08:57:25 pm
Confirmed: cannot hang the 45s for even a second. Can hang 35s for 15 seconds though.

Train 35s with added weight until can hang 45s? Train small edge with even more weight?

Or are the 45s just some sort of joke?

Someone on the forum must have hit one of these dead ends and overcome...

siderunner

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#42 Starting on a fingerboard
January 04, 2016, 09:47:34 pm
Sure the wads'll be along shortly to enlighten. In the meantime ... why not try some combination of:
 - 6x7s on 35 deg slopes, possibly w added weight;
 - one arm hangs open handed on the small crimps, possibly minus some weight using pulley;
 - add another 2-5kg and continue w the hangs ur doing (open on the small crimps);
 - use a crimp grip as well - something I've recently started training, albeit with caution/trepidation.

I usually try and add 2 or 3kg to each hang I do every few sessions, for a gradual progression.

nai

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#43 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 04, 2016, 10:20:33 pm
If you search you may be able to find a video of Dan wotsit of Beastmakers one arming a 45 so not a joke although I've always found trying to hang them is.

If Soft on the G is the aim, then more finger strength probably ain't gonna help you at this point, compression may though so perhaps work your chest - pressups and dumbell flys

In terms of overall finger strength the obvious progression would be assisted one arm hangs or less fingers, personal preference which, both have their merits.  If you're hangs are all four fingers on the small hold it's definitely worth hanging with three in more of a drag than the chisel created by getting the pinky involved.

Mix it up maybe, try a bit of both and see how it goes.  You'll probably find doing 3 fingers and combinations of 2 fingers more immediate than assisted one armers but that assisted one armers might help more in the long term due to the strengthening effect on the shoulders.  Obviously as long as you don't injure yourself.


Muenchener

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#44 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 04, 2016, 10:25:27 pm
Confirmed: cannot hang the 45s for even a second. Can hang 35s for 15 seconds though.

Is this a brand new slippery shiny home board? I'm not surprised you can't hang the 45. Try it on a nice heavily used, sticky grungy one at a wall. When I set my board up at home I could do repeaters on the 35, and hang the 45 for a couple of seconds, on beastmakers in public places. Was shocked to discover i could barely hang the 35 on mine.

moose

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#45 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 04, 2016, 11:17:59 pm
  If you're hangs are all four fingers on the small hold it's definitely worth hanging with three in more of a drag than the chisel created by getting the pinky involved.

I ended up getting a Lopez transgression fingerboard because I didn't fancy messing around with multiple combos of 2 and 3 finger hangs. I might if I had a certain  particularly weak finger, but otherwise i prefer regimes  based around 4 finger hangs with the option of a slightly smaller hold, or a larger hold and more weight.

Worth considering, particularly if you can get a Lopez board brought over from Spain or Germany.

That said, I have a taste for simplicity / monotony / quantisation. A fingerboard of 18, 14, 12,10, 9, 8, 7, 6 mm straight edges might not appeal to lovers of variety!

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#46 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 05, 2016, 01:10:56 am
  If you're hangs are all four fingers on the small hold it's definitely worth hanging with three in more of a drag than the chisel created by getting the pinky involved.

I ended up getting a Lopez transgression fingerboard because I didn't fancy messing around with multiple combos of 2 and 3 finger hangs. I might if I had a certain  particularly weak finger, but otherwise i prefer regimes  based around 4 finger hangs with the option of a slightly smaller hold, or a larger hold and more weight.

Worth considering, particularly if you can get a Lopez board brought over from Spain or Germany.

That said, I have a taste for simplicity / monotony / quantisation. A fingerboard of 18, 14, 12,10, 9, 8, 7, 6 mm straight edges might not appeal to lovers of variety!

Last few seasons I've been doing the RCTM repeater style stuff and doing a combination of fingers but I'm starting to think it's just a waste of time and adding potential for injury. Going to try decreasing hold size / increasing weight instead of doing multiple 'grips' of 4 fingers, first 2, middle 2 etc.

Murph

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#47 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 05, 2016, 08:36:20 pm
Thanks guys much appreciated.

The 45 fail was on the one in the works. I was careful to not go over the top tho cos there's a flat top to that one. No matter. I'll train 35s with added, maybe repeaters.

Three fingers drag - of course I should be training that. The pinky changes everything the way it twists your hand sideways. Thanks.

Nai - thanks a bunch for the Soft on G tips. Finger strength is one thing I guess but actual strength is another. Shouldn't be neglected. It's on my very short "really want to do" list so a bit of specific work is justified. Certainly it wasn't fingers that let me down last time but being able to hug the arête with sufficient beans to get feet round. Cheers.

And oh yeah I would love a Lopez board or a homemade variable wood depth strip that does same. Some day I'll set that up in the garage with pulleys for the ultimate.

Thanks again everyone.

I would love a

AMorris

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#48 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 07, 2016, 03:56:26 pm
I am going to callously use this thread as an opportunity to gather some advice on BM'ing. I have the 2000 and have been avidly pulling on it for some time now, I have been wanting to increase pure finger strength of late so I am wondering whether my routine needs adjusting in its form or its execution (I will explain).

At the moment I am strapping on 10kg (post-warm up) and, using the BM repeater routine (7 on 3 off x6 then 2:30 rest - Repeat 4 times for a set and finish 2 or 3 sets depending on how my body is reacting) I am hanging small edge -> 35 slopers -> small edge -> small pockets mid 2. Now my question is, should I drop some fingers and stay with this routine (changing execution) or add weight and reduce the overall amount of time spent on the board (changing form)? Any combination of the two is fine.

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#49 Re: Starting on a fingerboard
January 07, 2016, 04:53:34 pm
Caveat - Everyone is different, and there will be "strength" carry over from a wide variety of exercises. 

When I train finger strength, including a second FB specific warmup, I hang for a total of 60-80 seconds over the entire workout.   Your workout is 42sec x 4 x 2 = 320 seconds of hang time.  Can you tell the difference, and obviously which direction I would recommend? :)


 

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