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Weight loss and grade improvement (Read 11107 times)

B0405413

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Weight loss and grade improvement
October 29, 2015, 07:25:04 pm
I'm just wondering what people's experiences are of how much their climbing grade (in whatever discipline) changes as weight loss occurs. Obviously the better your technique/head, the more your grade will increase as the pounds are shed, because power to weight ratio will likely be more of a weakness, but I just thought I'd see how much people's performance seems to be affected by weight loss, eg. 7c-8a if half a stone is lost, or whatever.

Ta all.

shark

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#1 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 29, 2015, 07:53:33 pm
Not sure I can quantify it but to being 2/3 kgs lighter than I'm used to feels fucking awesome when climbing. Dreading going back.

Andy F V2.0

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#2 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 29, 2015, 08:24:23 pm
Is being light as important as feeling light? I've often found I've climbed well when I've actually been above my lightest weight purely because I felt light, ate properly and slept well. But being light is also good, so :shrug:

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#3 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 29, 2015, 09:05:39 pm
No idea, but weight increase fucks up your power-to-weight, fitness, strength, and even especially your skin / soft-tissue. HTH, skinny cunts.

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#4 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 29, 2015, 09:39:34 pm
My experience as a confirmed punter:
86kgs -> 70kgs
5+/6A -> 7A

70kgs -> 64kgs
7A -> 7B

1 minute with a food diary is worth any number of hours of structured training if you start off as a fattie. Less so as you near an ideal weight, IMO.

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#5 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 29, 2015, 10:09:49 pm
I lost around 1-1.5 stone and my bouldering grade went down (from 7b+/c to around 7a+/b) - just too weak to get up stuff.  So dire a state of affairs it drove me to sport climbing (where my new found ability to hang indefinitely off dirty crimps found a more natural home).

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#6 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 29, 2015, 11:08:04 pm
Just lost 8% of my body weight in a week  :sick: (64kg to 59kg) and currently feel mega weak and unmotivated for climbing due to lack of energy. Hoping that once I start training and eating well again though that it is going to be a blessing in disguise :)

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#7 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 06:38:04 am
Not sure I can quantify it but to being 2/3 kgs lighter than I'm used to feels fucking awesome when climbing. Dreading going back.

Out of interest shark how long are you planning / hoping to maintain this for and why are you going to put it back on? Is it just acceptance that you don't wanna restrict indefinitely or because you think you'll lose power over winter at that weight? I'm in a similar position and deciding after an upcoming trip I've been losing for whether to put weight back on or not so others' thought processes would be interesting.

webbo

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#8 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 06:42:40 am
Is not better to be able to say" I would be able to do this if I lost half a stone" rather than lose weight only to find you still climb like shit.

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#9 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 07:26:45 am
My view is like training you need to change stimulus/have periods of taking it easy, which inevitably means you're not always going to be your lightest (not, in my experience, if you enjoy alcohol, sweet things and bread). The key is to understand how to manage your weight. Once you have this dialled then it's less stressful trying to lose weight as you know it will happen. It's not good trying to lose weight at the same time as trying to train hard. Finally even if you've been climbing a very long time and feel as though you might have exhausted methods of trying to get stronger, don't give up on that. This year I've made a breakthrough before more recently when I've both lost weigh and seen the weighted deadhang light ;)

tomtom

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#10 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 08:09:59 am

Not sure I can quantify it but to being 2/3 kgs lighter than I'm used to feels fucking awesome when climbing. Dreading going back.

Out of interest shark how long are you planning / hoping to maintain this for and why are you going to put it back on? Is it just acceptance that you don't wanna restrict indefinitely or because you think you'll lose power over winter at that weight? I'm in a similar position and deciding after an upcoming trip I've been losing for whether to put weight back on or not so others' thought processes would be interesting.

For me 'going back' involves Christmas - or going away with work for a week or two and having less control on diet and exercise...

petejh

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#11 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 09:03:04 am
Like any form of body alteration it depends on the demands of the goal. weight loss is very effective for getting better at most styles of sport climbing, doubtful for most trad climbing, disadvantageous for hard bouldering (I imagine..).

I'm naturally lean and got to 8a+ without ay attempt at weight control. First time I focused on losing weight was this year when I dropped 5kg for my first 8b. I found it helped 'massively'.

Anyone who wants a demonstration of how crucial weight is to the ability of fingers to use small holds should try a fingerboard sesh with a pulley setup. 7kg taken off can be the difference between being able to do repeaters on a small hold and not being able to hang the hold. Lesser weight increments make a large difference over the length of a power-endurance route as Shark can testify.

I'm currently bulking/fattening up for winter climbing. It's easy to lose it again in the spring with a bit of focus and some basic calorie counting (even easier if you avoid certain things..).
Interestingly speaking to a few skinny 8c wads this year about weight loss and they've all said that after the first time they lost significant weight they found the weight didn't come back on as quickly as they thought it would, which could suggest the metabolism remains altered for a time after normal eating patterns have resumed.

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#12 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 09:08:00 am
It's dismayingly effective. But being light makes you weak. It's a bit of a trick though, worth saving for the future in most cases - unless you're overweight, then get down to a healthy weight (please all, don't start a debate about what a healthy weight is).

Just lost 8% of my body weight in a week  :sick: (64kg to 59kg) and currently feel mega weak and unmotivated for climbing due to lack of energy. Hoping that once I start training and eating well again though that it is going to be a blessing in disguise :)

This is ridiculous! Have you been ill or something?

disadvantageous for hard bouldering (I imagine..).

I kind of agree. I know that I, and some others, tend to boulder harder above their fighting weight for routes.

SA Chris

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#13 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 09:16:13 am

Interestingly speaking to a few skinny 8c wads this year about weight loss and they've all said that after the first time they lost significant weight they found the weight didn't come back on as quickly as they thought it would, which could suggest the metabolism remains altered for a time after normal eating patterns have resumed.

I've found this. The longer I'm managing to stay at a lower weight, the easier it is to get back down to that weight ie I was 14 stone for about 2 years, and never bothered trying to improve diet and shift it, but last year made an effort and got down to 13 st and stayed there for a while, and I'm now finding it fairly easy to stay in the 13 - 13.5 region in spite of the occasional falling off the wagon.

Main thing about losing weight and the advantages it may have is taking a look in the mirror and seeing if there is actually fat to lose? As Moose says losing too much weight can make you weak too.

Wood FT

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#14 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 09:17:57 am
Is being light as important as feeling light? I've often found I've climbed well when I've actually been above my lightest weight purely because I felt light, ate properly and slept well. But being light is also good, so :shrug:

This, also known to me as 'springy' and 'snappy'

petejh

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#15 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 09:40:13 am
I think this applies up to a certain level of physical difficulty, above which you can be Dawes'esqe in fleetness of feet, bounciness and kinesthetic godliness but still never be capable of a certain level of physcial difficulty without being below a certain weight and thus above a certain threshold of power-to-weight.  The evidence from 30 years of sportclimbing backs this up. Trad's a different story clearly

shark

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#16 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 10:32:29 am
Not sure I can quantify it but to being 2/3 kgs lighter than I'm used to feels fucking awesome when climbing. Dreading going back.

Out of interest shark how long are you planning / hoping to maintain this for and why are you going to put it back on? Is it just acceptance that you don't wanna restrict indefinitely or because you think you'll lose power over winter at that weight? I'm in a similar position and deciding after an upcoming trip I've been losing for whether to put weight back on or not so others' thought processes would be interesting.

I have been quite proud to keep this new level since end of August but it has been hard to cut back from the good things for the period. Personally I need the motivation of a project to help me do that. When Malham craps out then the motivation will diminish and hunkering down and comfort eating and drinking over Winter/Christmas is something I should look forward to rather than dread.

I now know how to lose weight without too much drama or losing strength and that an even lower level is possible based on current fat % readings so this year has been a valuable lesson in that respect (thanks Toby) and so should be repeatable (ie lose weight to a predetermined target and keep it there for the season).

If you have the ability to maintain sustainable lows go for it as it is harder to lose weight than maintain a level. I would be guided by fat % levels. If you are at 5/6% already (Im not) then that is probably unsustainable for most of us (i.e.  those without iron will power, a scientific quantitative approach to dieting and/or the genetically skinny)               

ali k

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#17 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 11:55:36 am
Yep I've had the motivation of a kalymnos trip that I've been focussing on which has helped. I am genetically skinny as you may have guessed so don't find it too difficult to keep weight off but still notice the difference of a few kgs massively. Think I'll try and maintain a lowish weight afterwards by sticking to the same 'clean' food method (plenty of pulses, lean protein, veg etc) but eat more of it so I'm not quite so hungry. And reintroduce the occasional cake. One thing I have noticed hugely this time by completely cutting refined sugar for the last 3 months though is how good it feels not to have the associated sugar crashes and binges.

SA Chris

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#18 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 12:05:29 pm
I think those of the skinny kin (ectomorph?) type feel a few more pounds a lot more than the bulkier builds?

shark

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#19 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 12:08:27 pm
(plenty of pulses, lean protein, veg etc) but eat more of it so I'm not quite so hungry.

One small tip re hunger - I am reliably informed that studies have shown that drinking water during or before a meal not only makes you feel fuller at the time but also aids keeping food in the gut for longer and so stay non-hungry for longer.

tomtom

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#20 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 12:20:12 pm
(plenty of pulses, lean protein, veg etc) but eat more of it so I'm not quite so hungry.

One small tip re hunger - I am reliably informed that studies have shown that drinking water during or before a meal not only makes you feel fuller at the time but also aids keeping food in the gut for longer and so stay non-hungry for longer.

Smoking works really well too...

rodma

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#21 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 12:35:05 pm
(plenty of pulses, lean protein, veg etc) but eat more of it so I'm not quite so hungry.

One small tip re hunger - I am reliably informed that studies have shown that drinking water during or before a meal not only makes you feel fuller at the time but also aids keeping food in the gut for longer and so stay non-hungry for longer.

All I did to fend off giving in to the hunger pangs was to remind myself that it was ok and normal to be hungry (even if you don't really need to eat), whilst visualising climbing like a badass on an upcoming trip or on a current project due to being a bit leaner

Andy F V2.0

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#22 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 12:40:41 pm
To paraphrase Paris Holiday-Inn "nothing tastes as good as light feels".

rodma

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#23 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 12:53:42 pm
To paraphrase Paris Holiday-Inn "nothing tastes as good as light feels".

that's the badger, but i found just thinking that not enough, i'd sit at lunch at watch beta videos, browse bleau.info etc. since it takes quite a lot for me to keep my cake hole closed

shark

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#24 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 01:44:01 pm
To paraphrase Paris Holiday-Inn "nothing tastes as good as light feels".

That would be Kate Moss. In case you dont know her - here's an educational clip


jwi

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#25 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 02:55:17 pm



Smoking works really well too...
In my experience, nothing legal works as well as smoking

Banana finger

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#26 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 03:06:19 pm
I guess everyone has a natural "fighting weight" which if you go above you're gonna struggle on "dirkers" and if you go below you feel good in the fingers but arms/shoulders/body gets weak and of course you are probably in injury territory!

It is probably good to keep track of your weight and how you are climbing.....Its a pretty awesome feeling when you feel strong down the wall, then weigh yourself and find you're slightly heavier than expected!

Being light to climb hard is akin to selling your soul to the Devil......quick gains, long term regret.....I guess I am still suffering from starving myself as a younger man and screwing up my joints!

Plus as a good friend once said "who wants to stand naked in front of a woman (*or man) looking like a pre pubescent boy"

Nibile

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#27 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 03:39:42 pm
I guess everyone has a natural "fighting weight" which if you go above you're gonna struggle on "dirkers" and if you go below you feel good in the fingers but arms/shoulders/body gets weak and of course you are probably in injury territory!

It is probably good to keep track of your weight and how you are climbing.....Its a pretty awesome feeling when you feel strong down the wall, then weigh yourself and find you're slightly heavier than expected!

Being light to climb hard is akin to selling your soul to the Devil......quick gains, long term regret.....I guess I am still suffering from starving myself as a younger man and screwing up my joints!

Plus as a good friend once said "who wants to stand naked in front of a woman (*or man) looking like a pre pubescent boy"
Amen to that.
I'm glad you wrote it, so that I didn't have to!

Adam Lincoln

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#28 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 05:28:26 pm
I don't think its coincidence i climbed my hardest stuff when i was 1 stone lighter than i am now. 8b's quickly and 8b+. Though i was also climbing full time and getting outdoors 4/5 times a week. I wasn't training so didn't need the calories. Its not something you can sustain for very long. 6 weeks maybe, tops. Not sure about bouldering as i wasn't doing much back then.

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#29 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 06:04:37 pm
As Adam said...

In my twenties, when climbing hard, I was ~72kg.
On my "resurrection", at it's peak, in 2010; I was 74kg and 7C/8A projecting.
Now, with various "itis" type thingys going on (and general old age stuff) sitting around 87kg.
Still strong enough to manage Muscle-ups and one armers but feel too damn heavy to climb anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doylo

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#30 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 30, 2015, 06:46:48 pm
I find you get 3/4 weeks of awesomeness after initial diet so need to time it right.

B0405413

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#31 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
October 31, 2015, 04:33:41 pm
Cheers for the replies, I agree that feeling light does not necessarily equate to being light.

SA Chris

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#32 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
November 02, 2015, 10:12:51 am
Same as feeling shite does not necessarily equate to being shite.

B0405413

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#33 Re: Weight loss and grade improvement
November 02, 2015, 11:47:01 am
This is true.

 

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