[Paul B]

So it seems time flies by when you get a new (real) job and move house whilst still climbing outside a fair amount; so fast in fact that I haven't had time to do more than leaf through the two shiny RRG guidebooks on my coffee table.

I'd be very grateful if people would recommend any routes, crags or even rest day activities that shouldn't be missed whilst out in the Red (considering both Nat and are going, all angles and all grades are considered).

Many thanks in advance 

(I'm not taking the trad gear)

[cheque]

So it seems time flies by when you get a new (real) job and move house whilst still climbing outside a fair amount; so fast in fact that I haven't had time to do more than leaf through the two shiny RRG guidebooks on my coffee table.

I'd be very grateful if people would recommend any routes, crags or even rest day activities that shouldn't be missed whilst out in the Red (considering both Nat and are going, all angles and all grades are considered).

Many thanks in advance 

(I'm not taking the trad gear)

I'm a bit of a punter (I was on 11s and low 12s on both my trips) so I imagine my advice will be of more use to your wife. If you climb mid-12s and above you can very easily just go to the Motherlode every day, but there's a lot more than that. I won't recommend routes that I know are pictured in the guidebook as I imagine you already have plans to do Jesus Wept, Amarillo Sunset etc.

My favourite crag in the Red is the Gallery. A really beautiful place with variety, so good for a break from the 'lode. Gold Rush and whatever the 12 right of it's called are in the classic Red style, Break the Scene is a great 12a corner thing, there's a very cool 11-something "slab" (in Kentucky that means vert wall climb) that I forget the name of too as well as stuff that was too hard for me.

Likewise, the Chocolate Factory has lots of variety and many more routes than the Gallery. Grumpalump is a good 11d there. I wish I'd climbed there more.

The Solarium is very cool for high-11s/ low-12s so I got a lot out of it. As you climb harder you could have a good fitness-building day working your way through them all. Awesome 11c on the far right of it where you climb in and out of huge huecos. The Solar Collector in the PMRP has that sort of stuff too but the location isn't as cool.

Drive-by and Bob Marley are excellent but get very busy.

The 5.12 wall at Military is great and perhaps a good place to visit on your first day as it's a perfect intro to the style of the classic routes there. I believe it was the first sport routes bolted in the Red, years before they even found the Motherlode! There's a nails slab thing at the right-hand end of the crag too.

Left Flank is accessed from the same parking and has some of the most beautiful rock I've ever seen- wait for a cloudy day to do Too Many Puppies as the arête you see in the pictures is guarded by quite a skin-unfriendly boulder problem. I can't remember what the 12 next to Table of Colours there is called but it's good. Table of Colours has a potentially tweaky hold on it.

I didn't climb there myself (just belayed) but the Midnight Surf is a must-visit crag too.

Funk Rock City is a cool crag to escape the busier regions- awesome-looking vert 12c there- but it's a crag for a cloudy (but not rainy) day.

I've no idea about anywhere in Miller Fork- it's all been developed since I was last there. I've no doubt it's already full of classics though and that the cool locals don't go to anywhere in the Wolverine books any more though.

Gradewise everything in the Muir Valley is soft and the Chocolate Factory is (for some reason) hard. In the grand scheme of things all the grades are soft though (unless you're unfit and get scared above bolts), particularly at the higher end I'm told.

As the crags in the PMRP and Muir are all bunched around single carparks it's possible (and fun) to see how many you can visit in one day, doing one route at each. I've done this on my last day both times I went- both times I was amazed at how many crags I'd missed out on and I didn't want to go home.

Hire a 4x4, then you can have fun going down to the gnarliest parking lots in the area (Sore Heel at the PMRP held the title in 2013) rather than stressing about where to leave the car so you don't get stuck and not visiting crags 'cos the roads to them are too bad.

Rest days- I just hung out at Miguel's, drank Ale8 and went for drives into Hicksville. No idea what else there is to do. I don't think there's much!

Don't get too paranoid about the state of the fixed gear. 

[Paul B]

so a Chevrolet Spark isn't ideal then?

[cheque]

You can still go to loads of crags in a 2WD though (all of the Muir Valley & all of the crags on Forestry Service land for example) and lots of places there's an alternative place to park by the side of the road before it gets steep and/ or heinous. If it's dry you can just take your chances (I once saw a Mini at the Motherlode parking!) but I reckon it's definitely worth it to get a 4x4, or at least something with decent ground clearance. I had a Rav4 last time I went, Barrows et al did it in style with some kind of huge pimpmobile 

If you're staying at Miguel's it's really easy to get a lift in someone's truck but I imagine you're not.

[abarro81]

We just got a slightly bigger rental car, which turned out to be Snoop Dogg's SUV. They must have known how gansta we are and arranged accordingly. IIRC it wasn't actually 4x4, but had good ground clearance. People were driving their normal cars to motherload/chocolate factory parking fine though, and to parking for gold coast/darkside. The couple of days I went up to Purgatory etc we just walked from chocolate factory parking, it's not too far. That bit of road up to their parking was seriously pot holed.  I get the impression that the state of the roads is quite highly dependent upon the recent weather, so can be hard to predict.

[Ally Smith]

so a Chevrolet Spark isn't ideal then?

You'll be reet! It's a hire-car, it'll go anywhere.

The road out of the 'lode parking ain't too bad, and if you do get stuck, some hick in his 4x4 will be along any minute to tow you out.

[Ally Smith]

The couple of days I went up to Purgatory etc we just walked from chocolate factory parking, it's not too far. That bit of road up to their parking was seriously pot holed.  I get the impression that the state of the roads is quite highly dependent upon the recent weather, so can be hard to predict.

This spring they had big rain storms and the road beyond the 'lode parking was flooded out - they'd done a great job re-surfacing it and was pancake flat in April.

Walking to Purgatory from the 'lode parking probably takes the same time as driving up the hill - no brainer.

[cheque]

We just got a slightly bigger rental car, which turned out to be Snoop Dogg's SUV.

On my first trip I paid for the smallest car they offered and was given a much bigger one. I took it down the hill to the Motherlode on my third day and had a bit of a mare getting it back up in the rain though, which is probably the source of my pro-4x4 stance. That and how much fun I had in the Rav4  Either way, chances are you won't actually get a Spark.

Purgatory

How could I forget about this place?!


Purgatory by Mike Cheque, on Flickr

Go there too.

[a dense loner]

I think you need to replace Squamish with anywhere

[cheque]

I have been pondering an RRG visit some time. The climbing looks great, but - given how much hype it gets these days - it worries me that it might feel too crowded. Especially with the kind of won't-shut-up over-excitable american climbers that can plague parts of Squamish mid-summer. Is that an issue?

You'll want to avoid the first half of October, possibly the second half too.

Spring is wetter (doesn't affect the much of the climbing) but also, I believe, quieter if you avoid Spring Break. I haven't been in spring though so it sounds like Ally is your man for the knowledge on that.

[Paul B]

I have been pondering an RRG visit some time. The climbing looks great, but - given how much hype it gets these days - it worries me that it might feel too crowded. Especially with the kind of won't-shut-up over-excitable american climbers that can plague parts of Squamish mid-summer. Is that an issue?

I'm dreading this too. I'll report back. As you know, I'm not the most patient or tolerant towards people in general; "Good job" "High Five" etc. when descending from the Chief nearly pushed me over the edge.

ps - Ally has emailed me a list of his suggestions, I might compile that (routes only) and the above (if he has no objections).

[SA Chris]

I expect you'll get loads more hoots and yelling on the cruxes and "send props" when you lower off than what you got at Squamish.

[abarro81]

The Americans there did seem to like their power screams and the like a fair bit... but on the whole were fun rather than annoying.

[SA Chris]

I don't mind it myself, and accept it as all part of the American climbing experience.

[tomtom]

Take a selection of T shirts emblazoned with "NO Encouragement please" or something suitably British...

Or be more blunt "Shut Up BELLEND" etc..

Stone would probably appreciate one too

Or wear earplugs.

Or become obnoxious in some way - so people will give you a wide berth (don't wash for a month, climb wearing only Chaps and a harness, smother yourself in animal entrails, roll around with a few skunks etc...). I have tried none of the above btw...

[cheque]

I don't mind it myself, and accept it as all part of the American climbing experience.

 

[Ally Smith]

ps - Ally has emailed me a list of his suggestions, I might compile that (routes only) and the above (if he has no objections).

No objections.

With regards to high season RRG - avoid the R-october festival. It happened this weekend just gone - we had a double rest day and got spanked at B-ball by a properly fat little kid! There's a reason climbers ain't renowned for their hand eye co-ordination 

Spring conditions - I had 4 days in the red this April in-between work trips to Detroit and Houston. The first day was cold and breezy and the grip was phenomenal. Day 2 was a sweat fest and everything felt 3 grades harder. Thankfully the good connies returned. My other work sojourn to the red was in May and it was way too warm for a Northern European.

[kelvin]

(don't wash for a month, climb wearing only Chaps and a harness, smother yourself in animal entrails, roll around with a few skunks etc...).

I've rolled around with a few drunks before. Skunking is new to me however.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

[Ally Smith]

The Red!

EATS, SHEETS AND LEAVES
Fly to Cinncinati, Louisville, or Lexington (closest). Hire a car and head for Slade (stick Miguel’s Pizza into google maps as a good starting point). http://www.miguelspizza.com/

Stay at Miguel’s for cheap ($2/night camping, $1/shower token), “spring break” scenes, greasy pizza & breakfast burritos with an unfathomable number of topping options. You can also buy gear and chalk from Miguel’s.

Alternatively, stay at the much nicer Lago Linda campsite for $5/night, inclusive of showers. http://lagolinda.com/ Expect scouse expat sense of humour.

Self cater at either. Miguels does food all day, all week. Linda does breakfast only at the weekend. Linda’s coffee is better (but that ain’t saying much – US coffee tastes burnt by default, and take your own tea bags!) The bunkhouse at Lindas (not advertised on their webspage – enquire via their FaceBook page) has a coffee machine and microwave.
 
Gas cylinders that fit European style stoves are hard to come by – think about borrowing a MSR multi-fuel stove or buy a cheap gas stove when you get there that fits the US only fittings.

Eat at The Rockhouse http://redriverrockhouse.com/ - their burgers are great, and the Nutella brownies rightly known as "crack brownies" owing to their addicitive nature.
The Rockhouse also has a liquor licence, but check the percentage of the beer as I made the mistake of having a pint of strong IPA and had to hope I didn’t get pulled over driving back down to Miguel's! (P.s. if you do get pulled over – don’t get out of the car – this is enough provocation for a hick US cop to use his gun on you!)

SHOPPING
There are supermarkets in Stanton, 1 junction down from the turning for Miguels – no need to stop at a big supermarket en route to the red, unless you need to fill up on protein powder (yep – Alex and Eddie made us stop….)

Get a “Kroger card” to get the best deals – you don’t need to register an address. They sell very good value steak. Linda has a BBQ stand to cook it on.

BEER
The red is mostly in “dry” counties that never rescinded prohibition! No supermarkets sell beer. Nowhere sells liquor on Sundays.

Buy beer from the “beer trailer” 10min up the road from Miguels. Don’t go on a distillery tour on a Sunday either – no samples!

American beer has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years – mostly super hoppy IPA style beers. Strength varies, but there are some special brews (>10% by vol) out there to be found!

I have been reliably informed that the bar at the Hemlock lodge has a bar and frequently drunk college girls. What happens in the red, stays in the red, right?

BOURBON
Kentucky is home to bourbon and rye whiskey distilleries – I did tour of Woodford Reserve and enjoyed it, especially sampling their new Rye whiskey?
Top tip – stay to the end and hoover up the samples the others haven’t touched! The restaurant at Woodford wasn’t that special though.

WIFI
Wifi is now a human right, right? Connectivity at Linda’s was patchy 2 years ago – maybe fixed now? Miguels bandwidth saturated at weekends. Rockhouse stable. Take a rest day and go to McDonalds for free wifi in exchange for a coffee?

CLIMBING - I guess we had to get on to the boring bit eventually!

The red is home to the biggest holds you’ll ever fall off – you’re gonna get sooooo pumped!

Lots of routes have perma steel draws. Some of the routes have run-outs. Some of the routes have perma draws, big run-outs, spiders webs and snake skins in the lay down rests. I’ll leave you to find out which based on the recommendations below?

Take a 70m rope, and a rope bag to keep your rope as clean as possible – the sand wears gear out real quick.

The red is traditionally split into north and south areas, with a brand new guide to Miller Fork out now.

There’s an online guidebook http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuide   

Miller Fork – Not been; apparently home to loads of great 5.11’s.

All the following are based on personal experience, or stuff that Alex & Eddie did on our trip 2 years ago. There's some obvious classics missing, like Roadside crag (only opened up again this spring) and Jesus Wept (12d) at The Sanctuary. i.e. loads more stuff to keep me coming back...

North Area – mostly trad area, with the exception of Left flank, Military wall and Phantasia.
Recommended;
Twinkie, 12a – super fun juggy roof
Phantasia, 12d – less juggy roof, funky crux on pinches.
Table of Colours, 13a – techy blunt arête
Fuzzy Undercling, 11c – good warm-up
Reliquary, 12b – I fell off into a kneebar rest, recovered and made it to the chains. This was the start of my slippery slide into the way of Barros.

South Area – home of the Motherlode, and the majority of steep classics the red is famous for.

Bob Marley (you can easily combine with a trip to Drive-by):
Toker, 11a – jump to the jug to start
Dogleg, sandbag at 12a – BIG reaches/short jumps on a vertical wall
Also home to a bunch of hard routes like Southern Smoke - the steep section of crag these routes are on seemed especially hindered by greasy conditions.

Chocolate Factory:
Malice, 12c – weirdly techy. The big block with a cross on has wobbled for years…
Oompha 10a and Loompa, 10c – great warm-ups – go look at Pure Imagination, 14c/d while you’re there?

Solar Collector: Great on a cold day as it catches all the sun going. Massive Huecos you can sit in.
Buddha Hole, 11d - the crag classic.

Gold Coast: Less steep crimping.
Golden Boy, 13b, Black Gold, 13c - both recommended by Alex.
God’s own stone, 14a - apparently a crimpy 7C into 12b climbing and seems to favour the little fingered.

Darkside:
The Force, 13a – pumpy pockets – many an OS ends just below the chains…
Elephant Man, 13b – a steeper and more bouldery version of The Force.

Drive-by: one of the most popular crags in the red, and a personal favourite.
Check your grip, 12a – an intro to RRG stamina climbing
Beer Belly, 13a – sweet bouldery moves between huecos
Dirty Smellie Hippy, 13b – soft – get beta’d up and flash this? Use a kneebar (or two?)
Angry Birds, 13c – super stamina route. Not as steep as some; maybe use a heel-toe on the crux.
Easy Rider, 13a – very approachable for peak-ist fitness due to the excellent rests.
Kaleidoscope, 13c – One of the best lines in the red. Boulder, shake, awesome overhanging arête. Locals were talking about bolting an extension?

The Motherlode: - f*ck yeah!
Stain, 12c. Good OS challenge – crux right where it should be.
Snooker, 13a. Popular stamina test with a high crux.
Transworld Depravity, 14a. The best 8b+ in the red? 7b+ into a kneescum rest, followed by a long v8 crux and stamina 7c+ outro? Victory whipper mandatory.
BOHICA (bend over, here it comes again!) 13b – soft f8a. Juggy roof romp, with a 13d extension.
Tuna Town, 12d. Simply super – builds and builds to a sweet finish. Take the victory whip!?
Chainsaw Massacre, 12b. THE crag warm-up. It’ll feel nails if warm/sweaty though.

Purgatory:
Skunk Love, 11b. Hard slab – Yosemite technicians will think it easy. I dogged this…
Paradise Lost, 13a. So good. Perfect 13a for Peak boulders? 13b extension for stamina louts
Hell Raiser, 12c. Another bouldery route. Only f6c to the top after the obvious crux in the slopey scoop.

Shady Groove:
Far from God, the softest 12b in the Red? Great fun though.
Taste the Rainbow, 13a – adventure sport. Check the state of the fixed gear before committing – if the mank has been replaced with steel perma-draws, then play on…

[Paul B]

Thanks Ally.

I'll report back in a few weeks, hopefully with a load of nice pics!

[abarro81]

Motherlode
Go here, do everything on the right hand wall. Then do everything in the madness cave. Then do snooker on the left hand wall, 8 ball is also supposed to be good. Stain, heart shaped box and something which name I can't remember are fun further to the left too, but really its about the main cave and right wall IMO - BOHICA/last of the bohicans (rad), pushing up daisies/flower power (rad, the extension really isn't that hard), Transworld (very rad), Omaha (supposed to be rad), The madness (really rather rad), the 7c+ one (slightly less rad due to shitty choss start but still fun). The 7a+ near the RHS of the crag is fine to warm up on, further right that chainsaw massacre, which would be a tricksy warm up if I'm thiking of the right one. Nat may need to warm up elsewhere? On the rhs convicted is good, but just freakin' do everything cos they're rad. or everything with chalk on anyway.

Drive-by
Do easy rider and kaliedoscope.
The warm-ups are all fun too.

Bob Marley
Go here if you want to do a classic 8c/+, otherwise there are probably better places. I didn't try it but the vert 8a round these parts (no redemption) is supposed to be very good by all accounts, and tricky for 8a. Bit more tech than most RRG I believe.


Gold coast/solar collector
Warm up at solar collector. Be warned the 7b+ on the rhs of the crag is supposed to have some wack bolting so you feel like you might land on a ledge (3nd hand info). Black gold at gold coast is awesome 8a+ PE crimping

Darkside
Not much for Nat to warm up on here, starts about 7a+/b, could warm up at solar collector first. Force, elephant man, return of darth maul are great. The 7cs are fun too. Straight outa campton and big burley are ok but not as good as the previously listed ones. Whichever the route it is that's just left of Campton ('tuskan raider'?) and goes into/out of the hole isn't as good as the 7c a bit further left (left of elephant man IIRC, possibly called 'shanghai'?)

Muir valley:
Only went there twice. Jesus wept is good, triple sec is classic but not as good as its reputation. Plus unexpected mono sidepulling one triple sec is what originally hurt my endless collateral ligament injury so warm up on monos before you do it if you do do it.

Chocolate factory:
Didn't do so much here. RHS has a good looking bouldery 8a+ on pods (buttercup?) and a fun 8a+ on edges but it's a little fragile (silky smooth)

Other
Dracula is very good at purgatory. Paradise lost/regained is also good, but dracula might be better IMO. A bit less basic pulling than many rrg routes (i.e. you have to layback 3 moves)

[Paul B]

Motherlode
The 7a+ near the RHS of the crag is fine to warm up on,

This may be key to convincing my good Wife that this venue is worth more than a fleeting visit, does this list:
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuide/?type=wall&id=61

jog your memory?

Thanks all. Completed my taper with a nice dose of illness, an hour at Longridge and then falling down some stairs.

[abarro81]

Burliers bane maybe? Not really sure without a photo guide to look at I'm afraid. There are warm ups over on the left near stain but at the main part of the crag it's the 7a+s on the right really. IIRC there's a 7a further right but it's actually harder than the 7a+

[cheque]

Burlier's Bane is the easiest .12a on the Undertow, then Kick Me in the Jimmy. Chainsaw Massacre is harder and, being in the power endurance style, not a good warm up for those of us who find .12a hard. 

[abarro81]

Also worth mentioning that could easily go motherlode for the morning and drive by or similar for the afternoon if nat wanted to climb elsewhere