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Dealing with pooh setting (Read 8585 times)

i.munro

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#25 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 10, 2015, 05:21:58 pm
Back on topic:
I find it a bit funny when people moan about setting styles, beyond dangerous/tweaky stuff anyway. Obviously some setting is better than others, and it's nice to climb on cool problems, but it's still all training, and if it doesn't suit you or feels harder than it 'should' then it's probably working a weakness so is actually what you need.

What I see, when walls are trying to set on the cheap, is that most problems become a sequence of long, usually dynamic ,reaches between overlarge holds.  This means the climber of average height works only one aspect of climbing strength - arm power. Finger strength, core etc are completely neglected.  The shorter than avg climber ends up having to drop a grade so the holds are even more oversized for them, making this situation worse.   It is all 'training" but if everything has to be campussed then you ay as well just use a campus board.

None of which helps the poor OP though  -2 hours !!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 05:27:44 pm by i.munro »

abarro81

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#26 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 10, 2015, 05:35:29 pm
Ah yeah, fair point that

blamo

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#27 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 10, 2015, 05:47:04 pm
Thanks for the observation i.munro.  That is really helpful.

I had never thought about the issue of boulder problems becoming a sequence of throws.  I had always thought of this as poorly positioned feet (or minimal numbers of foot options).  It definitely seems like people setting well below their bouldering limit are able to account for that a bit more easily (which I guess is obvious).




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#28 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 10, 2015, 06:07:42 pm
I'll chime in on this as I've dealt with this issue for nearly 18 years off and on.  I live in Alaska and there is currently 1 gym in town.  There is a small gym about 1 hr drive away and the next closest is a 3.5 hr flight to seattle.  I've been operating as the hardest boulderer here in AK for about the last 15-18 years.  The route setters are generally at least 2-3 grades below, with generally one strong young guy.  currently we've got a pretty good group of strong guys here, but generally in the past it's been 1-2 guys operating at v9+. 

The gym's perspective:
The bottom line is that the gym has zero real incentive to set for the top 5%.  We are dedicated climbers who will be climbing there regardless.  They are setting for the people who are less dedicated and if there's not sufficient problem turnover and quality in the v3-v6 range, these people will choose to do something else - yoga, crossfit, ski, bike, etc.  They also have to set for kids and birthday groups.  This means functionally setting sections of the walls to be jungle gyms.  They also have little incentive to set for "training" as they would rather people be climbing in the gym than climbing outside. 

All that said, the setters, staff, owners, generally are climbers, and generally like climbers.   They want to the customers to be happy and will work with you to make it so.  What I've found is that I have to approach it from their perspective.  Talk to them about problems you like and don't like.  Be really supportive and appreciate of their efforts and they're far more likely to respond to your needs.  Learn and training opportunities for them, and online setting info they can check into. 

I would guess the setting staff at a gym will almost always be predominantly young males with a turnover of 3-5 years.  From what I know, it just doesn't pay enough to make it a career,  and so it can only be filled by a certain demographic.  It seems to take them 1-2 years just to get to 80% quality setting, and to get to set quality at the extremes of their grades, it take much longer.  A good head setter, good training, and good feedback greatly improve the setting and help it come up to speed faster. 

In the end, I train hard on the FB, campus, weights, etc. and use the climbing as a means to keep flow and movement.  I virtually never "work" problems at the gym.  Partly due to lack of difficulty and partly due to lack of interest in doing so. 

petejh

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#29 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 10, 2015, 06:44:32 pm
A thought - if it means enough to you to have good indoor problems at a certain difficulty then it might be worth offering to do a deal with the wall owners, whereby you purchase your own sets of holds and set problems at the difficulty and in the style you want them. In return the wall owners allow you to use their wall for free, or at a discount.
They get free routes, you get the problems you want and a facility to try them. Both parties benefit.

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#30 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 10, 2015, 07:10:08 pm
Every set has it's fans and detractors, there is rarely anything definitively negative in feedback.
Oddly "reachy" is a common complaint and often  made by people who are markedly taller than some who flashed the same problem.

We try to mitigate it.

We have an area of wall where we mark out the span of anyone who cares to volunteer (must be over a hundred now) and try to use it as a guide.

As well as our regular circuits, we hold back a set of orange and wooden holds for customers to set and a full set of yellows for setting circuits.
We also have four different sets (with polka dots) to set pure (small) kids routes...

Some people still complain.

The top end problems are usually set by one of the better locals as a direct challenge to the others.

(Actually, it usually starts with someone saying "I'm going to get Ed with this one" ).

It seems rare that any set is unpopular, though we have had to modify individual problems.

Getting good feedback is often like drawing teeth from a duck, in a dark room, with a wooden spoon, wearing welders gloves.


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SA Chris

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#31 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 11, 2015, 11:50:30 am
Nibile,

I appreciate your tongue and cheek comment. 

 :offtopic:
Anecdotally, it seems like people who make drastic life changing decisions, solely in the pursuit of climbing, end up having it backfire on them in the long run (rarely does it seem like they have an improved quality of life or long-term climbing improvements).
 :offtopic:

Off topic - but someone needs to make a climbing version of this, it's brilliantly done

(His van is identical to mine :()

Nibile

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#32 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 11, 2015, 12:12:23 pm
Lovely. I like all the hating comments from those who think he's serious.

SA Chris

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#33 Re: Dealing with pooh setting
August 11, 2015, 12:15:55 pm
I know, it's a work of genius, so subtly done.

 

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