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British Bouldering Championship 2015 this weekend in Sheffield at Cliffhanger (Read 69825 times)

a dense loner

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Give Littlefield a bit of air time and suddenly he's an authority on all things!  :devil-smiley:

Oldmanmatt

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Give Littlefield a bit of air time and suddenly he's an authority on all things!  :devil-smiley:

That's a Little-un-fair...


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Stu Littlefair

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Sorry dense, you'd been a bit quiet recently and I assumed the job of UKB authority on all things was up for grabs.


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a dense loner

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Just not a lot of nonsense going on so no need.

Lund

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Can I just say that, whilst there are elements of the comp organisation that could be improved, it's really great to see the BMC responding positively to criticism like this.

Having said that, without watching the video, I'll bet it's shit.


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I watched it (or rather skipped forward through it).  It's just an overlong trailer.  It's not exactly a highlights show.  Think slow-mo, music, arty shots, but... nothing of substance.

It's just...

pointless.

The IFSC footage upsets me, because it's done so badly.  But at least there's a point to it, and if it were executed a bit better then it would be worth watching.

What saddens me about all this is just the misguided nature of it all.  I'm sure everyone involved is all very nice, but somehow detached from reality.

Nevermind.

I read earlier that sport england are considering a mixed economy model, rather than spunking all their money on one NGB per sport.  JTFC I hope so.  And it would be about time.



GraemeA

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I read earlier that sport england are considering a mixed economy model, rather than spunking all their money on one NGB per sport.  JTFC I hope so.  And it would be about time.

Interesting, where did you read that?

Schnell

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Can I just say that, whilst there are elements of the comp organisation that could be improved, it's really great to see the BMC responding positively to criticism like this.

Having said that, without watching the video, I'll bet it's shit.

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I watched it (or rather skipped forward through it).  It's just an overlong trailer.  It's not exactly a highlights show.  Think slow-mo, music, arty shots, but... nothing of substance.

+1. Clearly put together by someone who has never appreciated the difference between a good and bad climbing vid, ie I want to see how something happened, not how great the film makers were at slapping together a load of different shots and angles.

pigeon

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Hi Guys

The guys have done their best with what they captured. Short of a time machine, there's not much more we could do there.

Let us know what your ideal comp footage would be like, and we can feed it back in. Here or alex@thebmc.co.uk.

From what I'm getting so far, people would like:

a live stream
a commentator
showing all the competitors
on all the problems
in the qualifiers, semis and finals
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing
available afterwards
high production quality
wouldn't pay for it

And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why?

Keep it coming!


andy_e

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From what I'm getting so far, people would like:

a live stream
a commentator
showing all the competitors
on all the problems
in the qualifiers, semis and finals
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing
available afterwards
high production quality
wouldn't pay for it
the moon on a stick

And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why?

Keep it coming!

Fiend

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I have very few real complaints about IFSC footage, and those few are usually just technical filming / streaming issues. And the lack of moon on a stick.

Schnell

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And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why?

The crapness of the IFSC footage was discussed in another thread. Main points being because a) the camera work was bad, basically jumping between male and female competitors midway through a problem (In lots of comps they use splitscreens to show both, which works well) or else having ridiculous close-ups on someone's fingers, face etc, when the viewer wants to be able to see what's going on, b) having bad commentators who don't know what they're on about and c) streaming sometimes not working or other technical problems.

Hope this helps. It's great that you're looking for feedback.


Baldy

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I have very few real complaints about IFSC footage, and those few are usually just technical filming / streaming issues. And the lack of moon on a stick.

Seconded.

Its not so much the 'filming', its absolutely everything else that they do.

Location, commentary, streaming issues, website, allowing Jule Wurm to quit...

 

r-man

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This is just over the top whinging now, saying the IFSC footage is always bad isn't true.

IFSC footage is sometimes really well done. Often there are niggles, but usually they are different niggles from comp to comp. It can be frustrating because one round it seems like they've got the hang of it, then the next round there are tons of issues. It's probably just the nature of the (free) beast - sometimes they have to use footage from the hosts, sometimes the venue doesn't have decent internet. etc. etc.

And sometimes the route-setters just ruin everything.   :lol:

r-man

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in the qualifiers, semis and finals

Realistically, how many people would watch qualifiers? Four way split screen is a bit of a nightmare. Can't say I miss the IFSC qualis that much.

wouldn't pay for it





Actually, if it meant a decent stream and consistently decent camerawork, I would pay a couple of quid for it.

Baldy

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This is just over the top whinging now, saying the IFSC footage is always bad isn't true.

It's probably just the nature of the (free) beast - sometimes they have to use footage from the hosts, sometimes the venue doesn't have decent internet. etc. etc.


IMO they shouldn't be even hosting in venues where they can't provide a decent streaming platform. Its all well and good heading out into the arse end of China for a round of the WC, but if no one but 5 chinese locals get to turn up and watch, then what is the point?

Compare with Cham lead WC, and you can see the crowd.



If they even paid £2.50 to come in, then that should happily cover decent footage? Along with some smart use of adverts between competitors etc, then I think it should really cover itself? If the major competitions of our sport aren't capable of providing a half decent coverage of themselves, then what right does anyone have to try and get olympic coverage?

petejh

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From what I'm getting so far, people would like:

a live stream. yes. Anything else apart from the next one is gravy.
a commentator. that goes without saying
showing all the competitors. if possible great but it isn't make or break.
on all the problems. as above, do what makes sense.
in the qualifiers, semis and finals. semi's & finals
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing. yep.
available afterwards. don't mind.
high production quality. the bottom line is an unpaid bloke provided better comp coverage with his phone on a stick than the BMC did with a paid camera person and professional editing... Don't let 'production quality' (film-maker's showing off their editing suite skills) to trump the simple thing that people want - a live stream with a decent commentator.
wouldn't pay for it - probably not, but a quid or two.. maybe..

Keep it coming!

Durbs

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From what I'm getting so far, people would like:

A live stream: Yep, if solid (see notes on "Available afterwards"
A commentator: Not just "a commentator", a commentator who climbs and follows the comp scene. Ideally two - despite the very American-ness of it all, the ABS Finals were fun to watch as you had three commentators who knew the climbers, knew the route-setters, knew the competition (and non-comp) scene and had some banter between themselves too. Similarly the IFSC when Jon Cook-Pass-Babtridge and Dan were commentating, it was perfect.

Showing all the competitors: Yep
on all the problems: Yep
in the qualifiers, semis and finals: Semis & Finals only, quali's are too long and too hectic (though interestingly would've seen Pooch's injury, and more TeamGB climbers)
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing: Personally yes, but you are on a UKBouldering ;)
available afterwards: Ideally within 24 hours of the comp to avoid spoilers.
high production quality: Hard to define, but I'd like in-focus cameras, well lit, without the focus-tracking squares showing up, ideally with the scores and time displayed on screen.
Bonus features would be intro/post-event interviews and route analysis, and some replays as long as they don't show replays whilst another climber is on route.

wouldn't pay for it: I would... I reckon I'd pay either a £2 per view, or £10 a season for IFSC events, but this is tricky as you'd want to know you were paying for something worthwhile. I wouldn't (for example) have paid for this years' IFSC season, but would have last years.

And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why? Because it's inconsistent. When it's good (or even mediocre), it's great to watch. But so often they get one of the crucial things above wrong, but it's a different thing each time.

I see no use for the moon on a stick. It would play havoc with the tides and ladies cycles.


This thread has drifted more into a general Comp Climbing video discussion, rather than being BBC specific - but regarding the pay-per-view model, it would be an interesting thing to raise. The IFSC streams seem to get thousands of views, I do wonder how many of these would pay.
But equally, I'm slightly surprised that no-one beyond an obscure Chinese clothing manufacture (Kailas http://www.kailasgears.com/ also presumably why there are 2 comps in China) has jumped on to the comp scene as a main sponsor. For shoe manufacturers I guess there would be a perceived risk (e.g. La Sportiva sponsor it, but top climbers all happen to wear 5.10), perhaps this is the same for people like Prana, TNF, E9 etc.


GraemeA

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Pooch was injured in iso, so you would have missed it

a dense loner

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And 5.10 don't make solutions or pythons so I'm not to sure about your eyes Durbs! As for pay to watch a bouldering comp, no I don't pay to watch pacquai fight mayweather so twice no. I also don't think that babtree and dan were as good as people made out. Watch qualifiers? Is that some sort of joke I'm not in on?

And like Chaka Khan I feel for pigeon. He's tried and people have moaned about anything and everything, and will continue to do so

Doylo

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The speckly plump breasted pigeon is trying his best

turnipturned

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But equally, I'm slightly surprised that no-one beyond an obscure Chinese clothing manufacture (Kailas http://www.kailasgears.com/ also presumably why there are 2 comps in China) has jumped on to the comp scene as a main sponsor. For shoe manufacturers I guess there would be a perceived risk (e.g. La Sportiva sponsor it, but top climbers all happen to wear 5.10), perhaps this is the same for people like Prana, TNF, E9 etc.

La Sportiva legends had five ten climbers competing, right?!?

Durbs

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This year, previously not I think..? Anyway, it was an example, I wasn't suggesting La Sportiva should sponsor, just conjecture as to why no major climbing brands have sponsored BBC/IFSC yet.

Looking at other sports, this is a similar trend (completely unresearched so I'm sure this will get shot down), but Nike, Addidas, Head, Specialised etc. don't sponsor major sporting events, whereas Barclays, Mastercard, Heineken, Vodafone and Npower do... over-caffeinated sugary drink company too.
Maybe there's some economics involved in this - but I do wonder if it's just the risk of a main sponsor coming last/not winning.



Lund

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I don't know what this thread is even about any more, but my points would be this.

* The BBC was pretty much a non-event outside Sheffield.  I'm happy to be proven wrong, and notified that my world is not the same as the world.

* There exists no structure or organisation with the right people in place and the right mission and funding to organise a competition as good as what the BBC should be as a national competition.

* The BMC is not set up to be this organisation; it has the wrong mission, it has the wrong people, it does not have and cannot create the right supporting structures, etc.

[I would contend that as a result of all this, the BMC footage of the BBC is much more like marketing/promotional material than sporting event highlights or coverage.]

* None of this is easy, it requires lots of expertise and money.  The IFSC doesn't even get it quite right, although it has the right idea - and it has the right mission. (*) It's too much to ask the BMC to do it - not without changing it as an organisation wholesale.  That level of change is, I believe, impossible, and disregards the important work that the BMC *does* do - e.g. access etc., as well as the welath of baggage/history that the BMC comes with.

* Thus, if we want a modern, forward looking competitive climbing NGB, then we need to look elsewhere.  No matter how much moaning we do at the BMC, we cannot change these facts.

* I don't see how this will ever happen unless some entrepreneur takes it upon him or herself to take this mantle on.

Alex, this isn't meant to be a personal attack BTW.  It is not your job, and should not be your job, to produce a live feed with commentators, or even an edited full length highlights show.

(*) I don't know why the IFSC fails.  I've not had anything to do with it, so I'll leave comment on that to others.

Durbs

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Excellent post.

Spilt thread into IFSC/BBC organisation discussion?

a dense loner

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No point. No one cares about bbc and no one has a say in ifsc

 

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