[Muenchener]

As of last weekend I have a boulder project in the Frankenjura. It’s a 7A+ traverse and about the hardest thing I’ve ever tried, but possible. The crux is at the start and about ten moves long, with four moves that I find individually absolutely desperate, only one of which I actually managed to do in the first session.  Then there’s a reasonable rest, then about another 20 moves of pumpy 6B+ or so.

Here’s the bit that’s puzzling me: there’s a 6C that starts in the same place, does most of the crux of the 7A+ including at least three of the four hard moves, then tops out. So either:

• 6C into decent shakeout into pumpy 6B+ = 7A+. Doesn’t seem hard enough.
• The 7A+ trav is blatantly soft. My mate who has done it and climbs pretty steadily at the grade doesn’t think so.
• The 6C is a total sandbag

... ?

[a dense loner]

Leave it with me I'll ask Markus, Fabien, and Alex about it.

But seriously, traverse grades are weird at the best of times. I also found the Jura to be a bit stiff bouldering wise! My guess would be that the 6C is a total sandbag for starters

[Muenchener]

Good point. I bump into Alex at the wall from time to time (about every two or three years). I'll ask him.

[Will Hunt]

Tell me about it. There's a 6A at Hood Crag that neither I nor a friend could touch. We've both climbed 7C (he might have done a 7C+) 
The right beta is everything.

[Footwork]

Tell me about it. There's a 6A at Hood Crag that neither I nor a friend could touch (In 26 degree heat). We've both climbed 7C no you haven't(he might have done a 7C+) he has 
The right beta conditions is everything.

I couldn't climb a chipped 4+ at Caley in the wet. Conditions make a big difference.

[Will Hunt]

Tell me about it. There's a 6A at Hood Crag that neither I nor a friend could touch (In 26 degree heat). We've both climbed 7C no you haven't(he might have done a 7C+) he has 
The right beta conditions is everything.

You kept telling me that I had and that I should just accept it. Make up your mind for heaven's sake.

[Footwork]

 

[Nibile]

There are only two bouldering grades that make sense: Done; Not Done.
End of story.
Lorenzo says hi.

[Oldmanmatt]

I remember running up against a Spanish Sandstone 6C that had me flummoxed, whilst getting a 7B in a couple of sessions at the same venue.
Went back with a local a week or so later, who had been most uncomplimentary about my efforts, when told at the wall.
His demonstration of the correct Beta ran something like... (Insert Catalan accent)...
"And 'zen you reach up for the ridge here... Fuck!... It's gone! Thud!

Love that sandstone shit.


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[lagerstarfish]

what you describe, Muenchener, is too many moves for a boulder problem

simple

[Muenchener]

what you describe, Muenchener, is too many moves for a boulder problem

That only becomes true when I'm past the point of doing them as (<=) single moves.

[Pako]

If a boulder problem doesn't have a single move at least the grade - 2 grades, then it's a route. My theory, soon to be implemented world wide. Ergo, for example, the Wheel of Life, with the hardest move being V5, is most definitely a route, not v15.

[Muenchener]

I see what you mean with long traverses to a degree, but …

The crux moves on the “7A+” traverses I’m working on are beyond my limit as single moves, therefore at this stage I am bouldering. At some point when I have done the moves then they will become redpoint endurance challenges, but not yet.

Also – and this was the point of my original posting – if one does the crux of this particular 7A+ traverse in isolation, then tops out instead of continuing, it’s supposed to be 6C. But I do 6B in a few goes pretty consistently, and this feels a good deal more than two grades harder.

Also, working a traverse is logistically much easier than working a route. Quite apart from the mental aspects of fear etc., with a route you generally have a certain amount of time and energy expended to even get to your move(s) before you can start working them.  On a traverse you just step on and get to work wherever you want. This has to be worth a grade or two. Assuming a 7A+ traverse is about equivalent to a 7c route, well I’m working 7A+ traverses with a realistic chance of success in the short to medium term. There’s no way I’m ready to start trying 7c routes unless I were willing to engage in sharkesque mega-sieges, which I’m not.

[SA Chris]

If a boulder problem doesn't have a single move at least the grade - 2 grades, then it's a route. My theory, soon to be implemented world wide. Ergo, for example, the Wheel of Life, with the hardest move being V5, is most definitely a route, not v15.

I like it.