[turnipturned]

The main thing I think that's been overlooked is there is no need to use supplements if you stand around in a shop or sit in an office all day doing fuck all except watching how much you eat and climbing on rock 4-5 times a wk, conversely if your parents are wedged out of their minds and you're nothing but a pathetic excuse for a person or in other words a trustafarian you'll also be ok but god forbid if you do something for a living you need to make up the deficit then you can do a lot worse than creatine.

Quick tip for people that think they know things; if someone trains or climbs twice a day or more they're taking something.

Sounds like you have lost touch with reality pal!

[Lund]

I'm struggling with the science here a bit, bear with me.

So, having done my own reading as suggested, and this is what I think I've found out.

* The loading phase - 20g a day for a week - is to fill the muscles up, i.e. fill up the tank.  The 5g a day is to keep the tank full, combo of what you use and what just degrades away.  Right?  If you just go with 5g a day, then eventually, you'll end up full, probably - but this time varies depending on what the delta between how much degrades, how much you use, and what you're supplementing.  Once the muscle is full, extra creatine isn't absorbed into the muscle, instead you excrete it and waste money.

* The water retention is water entering the muscle along with the creatine.

So here's Q.1.  If the water gain is as part of creatine going into the muscle, and leaves when the creatine does, how does filling the tank slowly (5g a day, no loading phase), vs. fast (20g a day, loading phase), make any difference?  The muscle is full of creatine, the creatine comes with a water cost, so... riddle me that somebody with some knowledge?

Next up:

* The benefits of creatine use is power for longer, as you've got more in the tank.  So you can train harder.  This is because there's more fuel available to the muscle.  Hurrah.  Once it's gone, it's gone.

* Stopping supplementing means that the creatine level will drop (along with the water...).  So the effect will drop.

Q.2: that's not what I thought you guys were saying.

Perhaps Q2 is more subtle, or perhaps I've misunderstood.  But unless I'm not getting it, I think that:

- you eat creatine, your fuel goes up, and your weight goes up
- you train hard for longer: body grows more muscles and adapts etc. more than it would before as you are heavy and have more gas.
- if you stop taking it, and wait 4-8 weeks for the creatine level to drop, your weight will also drop, and you can make use of the extra power (and the now returned to normal weight).
- if you stop taking it, and don't wait long enough, you'll have more gas but you'll still be heavy

So if we care about being heavy most, then we need to cycle off for performance or we're just trying to peak perform wearing a weight belt.  If you care about fuel most, then never stop taking it...

All that right?  Or am I missing something?

In particular, I'm struggling to see the "creatine level up without weight gain" bit...

[a dense loner]

You're missing the recovery of the muscle happens much faster, allowing you to train more often

[mrjonathanr]

Resynthesis of ATP happens faster and so v short term recovery is faster, sure, but overall recovery

Is that gleaned from reading round, others' or your experience? Just interested.

[webbo]

No he learnt that at the Yoga classes Lund recommended.

[rodma]

Here's something you won't hear very often.

I've tried loads of shit, from healthfood (swipe only offered halfords or halitosis rather aptly for that word) and weightlifting shops and can honestly say that (anecdotally) these expensive supplements all help you believe you can train more frequently/better etc., but none have helped me,  while in the (ridiculously) short term they may have made me feel better/stronger. They are crutches, and expensive ones at that, well except from creatine which is really cheap these days.

Eating clean also makes next to no difference (to me, but I'm a youngster on this forum at 39, no not that three nine) compared to just eating well.

All of my best progress has been made when simply looking after myself and training really, really hard and really, really well.

 I don't even bother with protein shakes any more. I mean I understand why one may feel they need it,  I certainly used to , but by the time you feel you need it that horse has well and truly bolted.

Dense, young Mr Turner is right, you've totally lost it. Even in my late twenties I could train twice a day, every day for a month using only a second coffee. The only reason I can't now is due to being a "proper" grown up.

I don't have any science to add, but will add this; CLA made me look ripped; creatine made me look bigger (and looking back at photos my face looked puffy); caffeine makes me shaky and a wee bit stronger,  but contracts the length of session; pseudoephedrine makes me shaky and a wee bit stronger but contracts the length of a session; sugary drinks make me feel better between attempts but contract the length of a session; protein shakes made me believe that the hard work I had put in would pay off.

The very first time I took the stimulants above (not everything above just the ones ending "ine") in relation to training I felt superhuman, but the subsequent sessions they were necessary just to feel normal,  rather than weak. It took me years to realise how much bullshit they are and how much of a crutch they are.

I'm going to do an almost dense, but without any name dropping. A strong boulderer who shall not be named asked me about peptides and if I used them. He said that I should look into it and let him know how I got on. I did look into it, but didn't act; £1,000 a dose injected into your fucking thigh something you bought online.

Long and short of it, if you don't have to order it off the dark net,  or by it from a shady character on a street corner, it's a crutch;  but maybe that's all you need to push your grade so go for it,  or don't and just change your training without spending money on extra calories, or snake oil. So if you can have a little fucking faith in your body's ability to adapt to the new training. Otherwise, take the supplements if they help you to do so.

That is all, my red wine supplement is well and truly running dry and it's almost pumpkin time.

Edit: typo and clarity

[a dense loner]

An almost dense? I didn't drop any names at all 

All I did was point out that a lot of climbers I know, or know of, operating at the higher grades take it. Then gave a general rule of thumb, which works. To your point on age rodma, I agree with you completely btw, most of them taking it are late teens or twenty something's! Why people don't want people to know is beyond me.

Stubbs i take it you're not gonna watch Vail tonight? A lot of pumped up athletes strutting round with excess shit in their bodies when all they need to do is smoke tabs n go ont moor.

Mrjonathanmr I only took it re lifting weights, I was a lot bigger and stronger then so couldn't comment on it's crossover to climbing from a personal pov. I have dabbled a couple of times I suppose but not even for a wk both times, makes me piss like a racehorse!

[rodma]

I meant I didn't do any name dropping by that statement. Not that you had named names on this occasion [emoji14]

[a dense loner]

Chris says hi

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks for the answer.

In my case I suspect the key to improvement is very simple: climb more, get injured less, and wind the clock back 20 years.

[Sasquatch]

Look at your baseline body composition. If you are someone who can't gain weight or muscle regardless of food intake or workouts, then it may be a good idea.  If you're like me, (easily gain weight/muscle) then maybe not.  I tried it for a very brief time, and the weight gain was extraordinary.  I added about 10-15lbs over 5 weeks with very little dietary change. And when I stopped taking it, only about 5lbs dropped off.  My #1 peformance limiter these days is weight and health, which are intertwined for me.  If I drop below about 165lbs, then I'm more prone to injury, so I walk a fine line...

[mrjonathanr]

Is Sasquatch a pseudonym?

[Sasquatch]

 

[Three Nine]

Well TPM are you strong yet?

I thought id have a go, and have been taking 5mg on training days for about two weeks now. Only result i can see so far is im 2.5lbs heavier and I get a nasty flash pump feeling on boulder probs longer than 2 moves    (tho one of these might be cake-related rather than creatine related).

[Oldmanmatt]

Well TPM are you strong yet?

I thought id have a go, and have been taking 5mg on training days for about two weeks now. Only result i can see so far is im 2.5lbs heavier and I get a nasty flash pump feeling on boulder probs longer than 2 moves    (tho one of these might be cake-related rather than creatine related).

They both might be.

Depending on whether the cake is being consumed mid-problem...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Three Nine]

Nah the cake is always on a strict timetable as part of my cake-loading phase.

[roddersm]

Well TPM are you strong yet?

I thought id have a go, and have been taking 5mg on training days for about two weeks now. Only result i can see so far is im 2.5lbs heavier and I get a nasty flash pump feeling on boulder probs longer than 2 moves    (tho one of these might be cake-related rather than creatine related).

Started taking a protein/creatine mix a few weeks ago on training days and noticed this a couple of times- wasn't sure if I imagined it.

Definitely I think my session endurance for bouldering seems significantly better  -quicker recovery between problems and feeling stronger longer into the session - but have felt myself getting pumped/powered out on sustained routes in a way I didn't notice before - i.e. not recovering on shakeouts and the pump harder to shift - a bit like a flash pump but even after warming up .

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Tommy]

Long-term creatine supplementation does not increase
muscular strength in habitual strength trainers
J.P. Folland and D.A. Jones

Long term creatine doesn't make up for the adjustment in bodyweight
Long term creatine = incr BW approx 2%, but also incr strength (4% in elbow flexor in this particular one)

BUT.... did find significant increase in isometric strength in novice female strength trainers (9% above placebo).

Overall, I suspect there's no big advantage here if you're a long termer.

[petejh]

Can you post a link to the study? Just had a brief search and couldn't find one. I don't think you can take too much away from a single study about anything.

Here's more than enough information from the body of knowledge about Creatine; Beta-Al; Caffiene; Beetroot and other stuff, to occupy any training geek's reading homework for the summer. Taken from the 'Gatorade Sports Science Institute' so it's totally unbiased and objective

 

SSE #130: Supplements for Consideration in Football

Creatine
In addition to caffeine, creatine is also one of the most widely researched supplements that has a strong supporting evidence base. Creatine is a guanidine compound that it is synthesized in the liver and kidney from the amino acids arginine and glycine. From a dietary perspective, the predominant sources of creatine are fish and red meat. The largest store of creatine in the body is skeletal muscle (Wyss & Kaddurah-Daouk, 2000), where approximately 60-70% is stored as a phosphorylated form known as phosphocreatine (PCr). Creatine supplementation has traditionally been associated with strength and power athletes such as weightlifters and sprinters given the role of PCr hydrolysis in regenerating ATP during the initial seconds of supra-maximal activity. In the context of football, however, creatine supplementation is also of particular reference given that phosphocreatine stores exhibit significant declines during football match play (Krustrup et al., 2006). Accordingly, creatine supplementation improves repeated sprint performance during both short duration (Casey et al., 1996) and prolonged intermittent exercise protocols (Mujika et al., 2000), likely due to increased resting muscle PCr stores as well as improved rates of phosphocreatine resynthesis in the recovery periods between successive sprints (Casey et al., 1996). In addition to augmenting repeated sprint performance, players may also wish to consume creatine with the goal of augmenting training-induced improvements in muscle mass, strength and power (e.g., Branch, 2003).

Harris et al. (1992) provided the initial evidence that creatine supplementation (using a loading protocol of 20 g/d for 5 d) increased (in the magnitude of 20%) both total creatine and PCr stores in skeletal muscle. As such, the conventional creatine dosing strategy is to undertake a loading protocol (usually involving 4 x 5 g doses/d for 5-7 d) followed by a daily maintenance dose of 3-5 g/d (Hultman et al., 1996). However, given that player adherence to such a protocol may be limited, it is noteworthy that daily consumption of a lower dose over a longer period (i.e., 3 g/d for 30 d) will eventually augment muscle creatine to a similar level as that observed with classical loading protocols (Hultman et al., 1996). Upon cessation of supplementation, the elevated muscle creatine stores tend to return towards basal levels within 5-8 weeks (Hultman et al., 1996). To maximize creatine storage to a given dose, it is also recommended that creatine be consumed post-exercise and in conjunction with carbohydrate and/or protein feeding given that contraction and elevated insulin are known to increase muscle creatine uptake (Robinson et al., 1999). In a practical context, this means ensuring creatine provision before and after training periods in conjunction with other sports nutrition products containing carbohydrate (and/or protein) or with whole food provision at the main meals of breakfast, lunch and dinner. Prior loading with creatine may also enhance post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis rates (Robinson et al., 1999). Considering the difficulty of replenishing post-game muscle glycogen stores even with sufficient carbohydrate and protein intakes, this strategy appears relevant during those periods of intense fixture schedules when multiple games are played with limited recovery time.

Analogous to caffeine, it is noteworthy that not every individual will respond similarly to creatine supplementation in terms of both augmentation of muscle creatine stores and subsequent improvements in performance. Indeed, the magnitude of elevation of muscle creatine to a given dose of creatine supplementation is highly variable and appears to be largely determined by the initial level of muscle creatine concentration prior to supplementation, the latter likely determined by habitual diet (Hultman et al., 1996). In general, individuals with lower muscle creatine stores exhibit greater increases in total muscle creatine during supplementation compared with those individuals who already exhibit high concentrations of muscle creatine (Hultman et al., 1996). Accordingly, creatine-induced improvements in intermittent exercise performance are greater in those individuals who exhibited larger increases in muscle (especially Type II fibres) creatine and PCr (Casey et al., 1996).

Acute creatine supplementation (i.e., loading) can also induce a 1-1.5 kg gain in body mass, an effect that is greater in men compared with women (Mihic et al., 2000). Such increases in body mass are confined to fat free mass and are likely due to an increase in intra-cellular water accumulation. For this reason, not all players may choose to supplement with creatine given the perception that they feel heavier and slower, an effect that may be especially relevant for those lighter players (such as strikers and wide midfielders) who rely on speed and agility as key physical attributes. Additionally, creatine supplementation is also often perceived to have negative health effects in terms of liver and kidney function. It is noteworthy, however, that prospective studies demonstrate no adverse health effects in healthy individuals who were long-term creatine users (Poortmans & Francaux, 1999). Nevertheless, given that it takes weeks for creatine stores to return towards basal levels upon the cessation of supplementation (hence ergogenic effects should still occur), it may be prudent for players to “cycle” creatine supplementation to specific stages of the season (e.g., pre-season, congested fixture schedules) and/or training goals (e.g., strength / hypertrophy goals).

β-alanine
In skeletal muscle cells, β-alanine combines with L-histidine to form the dipeptide β-alanyl-L-histidine, the latter more commonly known as carnosine. Carnosine is of particular reference for high-intensity exercise performance given that it can act as an intracellular buffer to H+ due to its imidazole ring having a pKa of 6.83 whilst also being present in muscle at fairly high concentrations (e.g. 10-60 mmol/kg d.w) (Hobson et al., 2012). Given the repeated sprint nature of football match play, muscle pH declines to levels that may impair the capacity to generate ATP through glycolytic metabolism (Krustrup et al., 2006). As such, it has become common practice for football players to consume daily β-alanine supplements (as the rate-limiting determinant of carnosine synthesis) so as to increase muscle carnosine stores and hence, potentially improve high-intensity exercise performance. Indeed, in relation to the former, daily β-alanine supplementation has been consistently shown to elevate skeletal muscle carnosine concentration by approximately 50% in both type I and II human skeletal muscle fibres (Hill et al., 2007; Harris et al., 2012). Furthermore, in recent meta-analyses, Hobson et al. (2012) concluded likely ergogenic effects of β-alanine supplementation during high-intensity sports lasting in duration from 1- 6 min such as track and field events, cycling, rowing and swimming.

Unfortunately, investigations evaluating the effects of β-alanine supplementation during high-intensity intermittent exercise protocols that are applicable to football are both limited and conflicting. For example, Saunders et al. (2012a) observed no beneficial effect of four weeks of β-alanine supplementation (6.4 g/d) on sprint performance during the Loughborough Intermittent Shuttle Test, a prolonged field test designed to mimic the activity pattern of team sports. In contrast, the same researchers later observed improved performance during the Yo-Yo Intermittent Recovery Test Level 2 following 12 weeks of daily supplementation with 3.2 g of β-alanine (Saunders et al., 2012b). Unfortunately, both studies did not report changes in muscle carnosine stores following supplementation though it is possible that the enhanced effect observed in the latter study was due to the longer period of supplementation. This hypothesis is especially relevant given that length of β-alanine supplementation is a determinant of increases in muscle carnosine concentration (Hill et al., 2007).

A negative side effect of β-alanine supplementation when administered as single doses >10 mg/kg  BM (especially when in solution or as gelatin capsules) is a flushing of the skin and tingly sensation (Harris et al., 2006), a phenomenon known as paraesthesia. To reduce such symptoms, sustained release formulations have been developed that allow two 800 mg doses to be ingested simultaneously without any symptoms (Decombaz et al., 2012). Although the optimal dosing and delivery strategy of β-alanine supplementation is not currently known, it is noteworthy that a significant linear relationship exists between total β-alanine intake (within the range of 1.6-6.4 g/ d) and both relative and absolute increases in muscle carnosine (Stellingwerff et al., 2012a). To this end, Stellingwerff et al. (2012b) observed that four weeks of supplementation with 3.2 g of β-alanine induced 2-fold greater increases in muscle carnosine stores compared with 1.6 g/day. Moreover, these researchers also observed that subsequent daily doses of 1.6 g/d continued to induce further increases despite already high carnosine stores following the four weeks of higher dose β-alanine supplementation. More recently, Stegen et al. (2014) also observed that following six weeks of 3.2 g β-alanine/d a further daily maintenance dose of 1.2 g/d was required to maintain muscle carnosine content elevated at 30-50% above baseline values.  Indeed, upon cessation of supplementation, muscle carnosine stores typically return towards basal levels within 10-20 weeks (Baguet et al., 2009). On the basis of the above background, it is therefore recommended that where muscle carnosine stores are required to be elevated quickly (perhaps during important stages of competition such as intense fixture schedules), loading with larger doses (e.g. 3-6 g/d for 3-4 wks) would be initially beneficial followed by daily maintenance doses >1.2 g.  To minimize symptoms of paraesthesia, players may benefit from consuming slow-release formulas in a number of doses spread evenly throughout the day.

Nitrate
In recent years, dietary inorganic nitrate supplementation has received a significant amount of research attention due to the effects of nitric oxide on a variety of physiological functions. Indeed, nitric oxide has well-documented roles in regulating blood flow, muscle glucose uptake and contractile properties of skeletal muscle (Jones, 2014). The traditional pathway of endogenous nitric oxide production is recognized as that of L-arginine oxidation, as facilitated by the enzyme nitric oxide synthase. However, it is now known that dietary ingestion of inorganic nitrate can also be metabolized to nitrite and subsequently, nitric oxide, thereby complementing that produced from the L-arginine pathway (Hord et al., 2009). Identification of this biochemical pathway has therefore led to a series of studies conducted in the last decade evaluating the effects of inorganic nitrate ingestion on exercise performance.

Nitrates are especially high in green leafy vegetables such as beetroot, lettuce and spinach though the exact content can vary considerably based on soil conditions and time of year. As a means to provide a constant dose of nitrate, most researchers have therefore used standard doses of beetroot juice (0.5 L is equivalent to approximately 5 mmol nitrate) so as to elevate nitrate and nitrite availability. Using both chronic (ranging from 3-15 d of 0.5 L beetroot juice per day) and/or acute ingestion 2.5 h before exercise, it was collectively demonstrated that nitrate ingestion reduces blood pressure, lowers oxygen consumption for a given workload or velocity during steady-state exercise as well as improving exercise capacity during short-duration high-intensity cycling or running (Bailey et al., 2009, 2010; Vanhatalo et al., 2010; Lansley et al., 2011a). These initial studies were later supported by experiments demonstrating that acute (Lansley et al., 2011b) and chronic beetroot juice ingestion (Cermak et al., 2012) in trained but sub-elite athletes also improved cycling time trial performance in distances ranging from 4 km to 16.1 km (i.e., approximately 5-30 min of exercise). It is noteworthy, however, that the performance-enhancing effects of nitrate is not readily apparent in elite athletes (Wilkerson et al., 2012), likely due to a combination of underpinning differences in the physiology of elite versus sub-elite athletes that collectively render a trained athlete less sensitive to additional nitric oxide availability, e.g., higher nitric oxide synthase activity, plasma nitrite values, greater muscle capillarization, higher type I fibres (Jones, 2014).

The mechanisms underpinning reduced oxygen cost of exercise and improved capacity / performance are currently thought to be due to improved muscle efficiency and energy metabolism (Jones, 2014). For example, Bailey et al. (2010) observed that reduced oxygen uptake during exercise (following six days of 0.5 L beetroot juice ingestion per day) was associated with reduced PCr degradation and accumulation of ADP and Pi, thus implying a reduced ATP cost of contraction for a given power output and hence reduced signals to stimulate respiration. Using three days of sodium nitrate ingestion (0.1 mmol/kg BM), Larsen et al. (2011) suggested that mitochondrial efficiency in mitochondria might be improved in isolated from human skeletal muscle following supplementation. More recently, Haider and Folland (2014) observed that seven days of nitrate loading in the form of concentrated beetroot juice (9.7 mmol/d) also improved in vivo contractile properties of human skeletal muscle, as evidenced by improved excitation-coupling at low frequencies of stimulation as well as explosive force produced by supra-maximal stimulation.

The optimal loading dose to facilitate the ergogenic effects of nitrate is also not currently well known, especially in relation to whether acute (i.e., 2.5 h before exercise) or chronic (i.e., several days) loading protocols are required. Nevertheless, in the acute context, Wylie et al. (2013a) observed that the improved exercise tolerance (relative to placebo) was not different when 8.4 or 16.8 mmol of nitrate was ingested 2.5 h before exercise. It is noteworthy, however, that the reduction in oxygen cost during exercise associated with nitrate ingestion was greater with the higher dose. Such data suggest that inability to detect physiological effects of nitrate in acute scenarios (especially with elite athletes) may be overcome by using higher pre-exercise dosing strategies and/or longer duration dosing protocols (>3 days).

Despite the data reviewed above, convincing evidence demonstrating ergogenic effects of nitrate ingestion during intermittent exercise protocols relative to football is not yet available. However, using a more aggressive loading dose of concentrated beetroot juice (approximately 30 mmol in a 36 h period), Wylie et al. (2013b) observed significant improvements in the distance run on the Yo-Yo Intermittent Recovery Test Level 1 when compared with placebo supplementation. Interestingly, these researchers observed reduced plasma glucose during exercise in the beetroot trial, suggesting that muscle glucose increased and that improved performance may be due to muscle glycogen sparing. Additionally, improved performance may have been due to maintained muscle membrane excitability given that plasma K+ was lower during exercise following beetroot juice supplementation. From a practical perspective, the use of an intense 36 h nitrate loading protocol is likely to gain more acceptance amongst football players than the conventional 3-6 day loading approach. Nevertheless, the practical application of nitrate supplementation (even in concentrated form) may be limited due to the taste and palatability issues of the current nitrate products that are commercially available. Given the limited available evidence for football-specific protocols, it is therefore highly recommended that players experiment with nitrate supplementation (perhaps even more so than the supplements reviewed previously) prior to implementing in high-level competition.

[petejh]

 

References
Baguet, A., Reyngoudt, H., Pottier, A., Everaert, I., Callens, S., Achten, E. and Derave, W. (2009). Carnosine loading and washout in human skeletal muscles. J. Appl. Physiol. 106: 837-842.
Bailey, S.J., Winyard, P., Vanhatalo, A., Blackwell, J.R., Dimenna, F.J., Wilkerson, D.P., Tarr, J., Benjamin, N. and Jones, A.M.  (2009). Dietary nitrate supplementation reduces the O cost of low-intensity exercise and enahcnes exercise tolerance to high-intensity exercise in humans. J. Appl. Physiol. 107: 1144-1155.
Bailey, S.J., Fulford, J., Vanhatalo, A., Winyard, P.G., Blackwell, J.R., DiMenna, F.J., Wilkerson, D.P., Benjamin, N. and Jones, A.M. (2010). Dietary nitrate supplementation enhances muscle contractile efficiency during knee-extensor exercise in humans. J. Appl. Physiol. 109: 135-148.
Beelen, M., Kranenburg, J.V., Senden, J.M., Kuipers, H. and Van Loon, L.J. (2012). Impact of caffeine and protein on post-exercise muscle glycogen synthesis. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer. 44: 692-700.
Branch, J.D. (2003). Effect of creatine supplementation on body composition and performance: a meta-analysis. Int. J. Sports. Nutr. Exer. Metab. 13: 198-226.
Burke, L., Desbrow, B. and Spriet, L. (2013). Caffeine and Sports Performance. Human Kinetics: Champaign, IL.
Casey, A., D.Constantin-Teodosiu, S.Howell, E.Hultman and P.L.Greenhaff (1996). Creatine ingestion favorably affects performance and muscle metabolism during maximal exercise in humans. Am. J. Physiol, 271: E31-E37.
Cermak, N., Gibala, M.J. and Van Loon, L.J. (2012). Nitrate supplementation’s improvement of 10 km time trial performance in trained cyclists. Int. J. Sports. Nutr. Exer. Metab. 22: 64-71.
Close, G.L., J.Russell, J.N.Cobley, D.J.Owens, G.Wilson, W.Gregson, W.D.Fraser and J.P.Morton (2013a). Assessment of vitamin D concentration in non-supplemented professional athletes and healthy adults during the winter months in the UK: implications for skeletal muscle function. J. Sports. Sci 31: 344-353.
Close, G.L., Leckey, J., Patterson, M., Bradley, W., Donovan, T.F., Fraser, W.D., Owens, D.J. and Morton, J.P. (2013b). The effects of vitamin D3 Supplementation on serum 25[OH]D concentration, muscle function and aerobic performance: a dose response study. Br. J. Sports. Med. 47: 692-696.
Davis, J., Zhao, Z., Stock, H., Mehl, K.A., Buggy, J. and Hand, G.A. (2003). Central nervous system effects of caffeine and adenosine on fatigue. Am. J. Physiol. Regul. Integr. Comp. Physiol. 284: R399-R404.
Decombaz, J., Beaumont, M., Vuichoud, J., Bouisset, F. and Stellingwerff, T. (2012). Effect of slow release B-alanine tablets on absorption kinetics and paresthesia. Amino.Acids. 43: 67-76.
Drake, C., Roehrs, T., Shambroom, B.S. and Roth, T. (2013). Caffeine effects on sleep taken 0, 3 or 6 hours before going to bed. J. Clin. Sleep. Med. 9: 1195-2000.
Duvnjak-Zaknich. D.M., Dwason, B.T., Wallman, K.E. and Henry, G. (2011). Effect of caffeine on reactive agility time when fresh and fatigued. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer 43: 1523-1530.
Finley. J.W., Finley J.W., Ellwood. K and J. Hoadley J (2013). Launching a New Food Product or Dietary Supplement in the United States: Industrial, Regulatory, and Nutritional Considerations. Annu Rev Nutr. Jul 22. [Epub ahead of print].
Foskett, A., A.Ali and N.Gant (2009). Caffeine enhances cognitive function and skill performance during simulated soccer activity. Int. J. Sports. Nutr. Exer. Metab. 19: 410-423.
Fredholm, B. (1995). Adenosine, adenosine receptors and the actions of caffeine. Pharmacol. Toxicol. 76: 93-101.
Gant, N, Ali, A. and A, Foskett A (2010). The influence of caffeine and carbohydrate coingestion on simulated soccer performance. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 20(3):191-7.
Graham, T.E. and Spriet, L.L. (1995). Metabolic, catecholamine and exercise performance responses to various doses of caffeine. J. Appl. Physiol. 78: 867-874.
Haider, G. and Folland, J.P. (2014). Nitrate supplementation enhances the contractile properties of human skeletal muscle. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer. In press.
Harris, R.C., Soderlund, K. and Hultman, E. (1992). Elevation of creatine in resting and exercised muscle of normal subjects by creatine supplementation. Clin. Sci. 83: 367-374.
Harris, R.C., Tallon, M.J., Dunnett, M., Boobis, L., Coakley, J., Kim, H.J., Fallowfield, J.L., Hill, C.A., Sale, C., Wise, J.A. (2006). The absorption of orally supplied beta-alanine and its effects on muscle carnosine synthesis in human vastus lateralis. Amino.Acids. 30: 279-289.
Harris, R.C., Wise, J.A., Price, K.A., Kim, H.J., Kim, C.K. and Sale, C. (2012). Determinants of muscle carnosine content. Amino.Acids. 43: 5-12.
Hill, C.A., Harris, R.C., Kim, H.J., Harris, B.D., Sale, C., Boobis, L.H., Kim, C.K. and Wise, J.A. (2007). Influence of beta-alanine supplementation on skeletal muscle carnosine concentrations and high-intensity cycling capacity. Amino.Acids. 32: 225-233.
Hobson, R.M., B.Saunders, G.Ball, R.C.Harris and C.Sale (2012). Effects of beta-alanine supplementation on exercise performance: a meta-analysis. Amino.Acids. 43: 25-37.
Hodgson, A.B., R.K.Randell, R.K. and A.E.Jeukendrup (2013). The metabolic and performance effects of caffeine compared to coffee during endurance exercise. PLoS. One. 8: e59561.
Hord, N.G., Tang, Y. and Bryan, N.S. (2009). Food sources of nitrates and nitrites: the physiologic contact for potential health benefits. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 90: 1-10.
Hultman, E., K.Soderlund, J.A.Timmons, G.Cederblad and P.L.Greenhaff (1996). Muscle creatine loading in men. J. Appl. Physiol. 81: 232-237.
Jones, A.M. (2014). Dietary nitrate supplementation on exercise tolerance and performance. Sports.Med. 44: S35-S45.
Krustrup, P., M.Mohr, A.Steensberg, J.Bencke, M.Kjaer and J.Bangsbo (2006). Muscle and blood metabolites during a soccer game: implications for sprint performance. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer 38: 1165-1174.
Lansley, K.E., Winyard, P.G., Fulford, J., Vanhatalo, A., Bailey, S.J., Blackwell, J.R., DiMenna, F.J., Gilchrist, M., Benjamin, N. and Jones, A.M. (2011a). Dietary nitrate supplementation reduces the oxygen cost of walking and running: a placebo-controlled study. J. Appl. Physiol. 110: 591-600.
Lansley, K.E., Winyard, P.G., Bailey, S.J., Vanhatalo, A., Wilkerson, D.P., Blackwell, J.R., Gilchrist, M., Benjamin, N. and Jones, A.M. (2011b). Acute dietary nitrate supplementation improves cycling time trial performance. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer 43: 1125-1131.
Larsen, F.J., Schiffer, T.A., Borniquel, S., Sahlin, K., Ekblom, B., Lundberg, J.O. and Weitzberg, E. (2011). Dietary inorganic nitrate improves mitochondrial efficiency in humans. Cell. Metab. 13: 149-159.
Maridakis, V., Herring, M. and O’Connor, P. (2009). Sensitivity to change in cognitive performance and mood measures of energy and fatigue in response to differing doses of caffeine or breakfast. Int. J. Neurosci. 119: 975-994.
Meeusen, R. (2014). Exercise, nutrition and the brain. Sports. Med. 44: S47-S56.
Mihic, S., MacDonald, J.R., McKenzie, S. and Tarnapolsky, M.A. (2000). Acute creatine loading increases fat free mass but does not affect blood pressure, plasma creatinine or CK activity in men and women. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer 32: 291-296.
Mohr, M., J.J.Nielsen and J.Bangsbo (2011). Caffeine intake improves intense intermittent exercise performance and reduces muscle interstitial potassium accumulation. J. Appl. Physiol. 111: 1372-1379.
Moore, D.R., M.J.Robinson, J.L.Fry, J.E.Tang, E.I.Glover, S.B.Wilkinson, T.Prior, M.A.Tarnapolsky and S.M.Phillips (2009). Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am. J. Clin. Nutr 89: 161-168.
Morton, J.P., Iqbal, Z., Burgess, D., Drust, B., Close, G.L. and Brukner, P.D. (2012). Seasonal variation in vitamin D status of professional soccer players of the English Premier League. Appl. Physiol. Nutr. Metab. 37: 798-802.
Mujika, I., S.Padilla, J.Ibanez, M.Izquierdo and E.Gorostiaga (2000). Creatine supplementation and sprint performance in football players. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer. 32: 518-525.
Pedersen, D.J., S.J.Lessard, V.G.Coffey, E.G.Churchley, A.M.Woolton, T.Ng, M.J.Watt and J.A.Hawley (2008). High rates of muscle glycogen resynthesis after exhaustive exercise when carbohydrate is coingested with caffeine. J. Appl. Physiol. 105: 7-13.
Poortmans, J.R. and Francaux, M. (1999). Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy adults. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer 31: 1108-1110.
Res, P.T., B.Groen, B.Pennings, M.Beleen, G.A.Wallis, A.P.Gijsen and L.J.Van Loon (2012). Protein ingestion before sleep improves overnight recovery. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer. 44: 1560-1569.
Res, P. Recovery Nutrition for Football Players. (2014) Sports Science Exchange Article #129. http://www.gssiweb.org/Article/sse-129-recovery-nutrition-for-football-players
Robinson, T.M., D.A.Sewell, E.Hultman and P.L.Greenhaff (1999). Role of submaximal exercise in promoting creatine and glycogen accumulation in human skeletal muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 87:598-604.
Saunders, B., Sale, C., Harris, R.C. and Sunderland, C. (2012a). Effect of beta-alanine supplementation on repeated sprint performance during the Loughborough Intermittent Shuttle Test. Amino.Acids. 43: 39-47.
Saunders, B., C.Sunderland, C., R.C.Harris and C.Sale (2012b). Beta-alanine supplementation improves Yo Yo intermittent recovery test performance. J. Int. Soc. Sports. Nutr. 9: 39.
Stegen, S., Bex, T., Vervaet, C., Achten, E. and Derave, W. (2014). The beta-alanine dose for maintaining moderately elevated muscle carnosine levels. Med. Sci. Sports. Exer, In press.
Stellingwerff, T., J.Decombaz, R.C.Harris and C.Boesch (2012a). Optimizing human in vivo dosing and delivery of beta-alanine supplements for muscle carnosine synthesis. Amino.Acids. 43: 57-65.
Stellingwerff, T., Anwander, H., Egger, A., Buehler, T., Kreis, R., Decombaz, J. and Boesch, C. (2012b). Effects of two B-alanine dosing protocols on muscle carnosine synthesis and washout. Amino.Acids. 42: 2461-2472.
Tang, J.E., D.R.Moore, G.W.Kujiba, M.A.Tarnapolsky and S.M.Phillips (2009). Ingestion of whey protein hydrolysate, casein or soy protein isolate: effects on mixed muscle protein synthesis at rest and following resistance exercise in young men. J. Appl. Physiol. 107: 987-992.
Taylor, C., D.Higham, G.L.Close and J.P.Morton (2011). The effect of adding caffeine to post-exercise carbohydrate feeding on subsequent high-intensity interval running capacity compared with carbohydrate alone. Int. J. Sports. Nutr. Exer. Metab. 21: 410-416.
Vanhatalo, A., Bailey, S.J., Blackwell, J.R., DiMenna, F.J., Pavey, T.G., Wilkerson, D.P.,Benjamin, N., Winyard, P.G. and Jones, A.M. (2010). Acute and chronic effects of dietary nitrate supplementation on blood pressure and the physiological responses to moderate intensity and incremental exercise. Am. J. Physiol. Regul. Integr. Comp. Physiol. 299: R1121-R131.
Webb, A.R. and Holick, M.F. (1988). The role of sunlight in the cutaneous production of vitamin D3. Ann. Rev. Nutr. 8: 375-399.
Wilkerson, D.P., Hayward, G.M., Bailey, S.J., Vanhatalo, A., Blackwell, J.R. and Jones, A.M. (2012). Influence of acute dietary nitrate supplementation on 50 mile time trial performance in well trained cyclists. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 112: 4127-4134.
Wylie, L.J., Kelly, J., Bailey, S.J., Blackwell, J.R., Skiba, P.E., Winyard, P.G., Jeukendrup, A.E., Vanhatalo, A. and Jones, A.M. (2013a). Beetroot juice and exercise: pharmacodynamic and dose response relationships. J. Appl. Physiol. 115: 325-336.
Wylie, L.J., M.Mohr, P.Krustrup, S.R.Jackman, G.Ermidis, J.Kelly, M.I.Black, S.J.Bailey, A.Vanhatalo, and A.M.Jones (2013b). Dietary nitrate supplementation improves team sport-specific intense intermittent exercise performance. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 113: 1673-1684.
Wyss, M. and Kaddurah-Daouk, R. (2000). Creatine and creatinine metabolism. Physiol. Rev. 80: 1107-1213.

[roddersm]

Yeah but does it give you a flash pump?

[petejh]

  Can't believe I got puntered for not linking every study - I assume?! The point being made was that there are shit-loads of studies on this stuff that you can use to go and educate yourself. To post up just one study and say 'overall, xyz probably applies' doesn't really provide much context.

Yeah but does it give you a flash pump?

It does with me, unless I work on endurance (aerocap in €).

[Tommy]

Pete, I don't think you will be able to get a link to the study as it's a paper from a conference - British Assoc of Sport and Exercise Sciences. If you have Pubmed etc you'll be able to get it with the usual search functions.

And yes, as ever, you can't take too much away from a single study. That said, if I'd found convincing evidence and findings that lead me to think I could get more out of my climbing performance by taking it long term then I would.... And I don't....

[benno]

It was a jocular puntering for pasting A MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT instead of just the (perfectly adequate) link in your first post.

[TheTwig]

Just got on board the creatine train. Apparantly something like 80% of competitors in the 2012 olympics were using it during training