[petejh]

How many grams of creatine is in 'a scoop'?

[turnipturned]

WEIGHT: 74KG
HEIGHT: 6 foot
GRADE PEAK: Several Font 7a's last year
AIM: More of the same this year and on steeper stuff not just techie climbs

TRAINING: I'm currently doing fingerboard sets 3 times a week and a couple of sets of 4x4's around looking after my daughters.  I also cycle 20 miles home from work.

Weirdly my ride home knocked 3 - 4 mins off my record time.  Whilst pleased with the timing I dont attribute it to the Creatine, just some good luck with the traffic lights and maybe a little placebo.  What I did notice after the ride is my legs felt tight, not cramps just tight, I could feel them.  I drank more and thought nothing of it.  A couple of days later I now attribute this to the creatine, this tightness, as I have gotten the same feeling after my finger sets in my arms, especially the lower arms and fingers.  Its not uncomfortable.  Just odd. 

WATER RETENTION: As for water retention, at this time I clearly haven't seen my weight change but I have notice going to the loo is a little more of a push    

Without sounding like a knob, do you really think it is necessary to take supplements to help improve? Also, it seems odd doing fingerboarding three times a week to help improve your climbing on steep ground?

Don't get me wrong, I know very little about 'training' and supplements, but to me this seems absolutely insane to take supplements like creatine, with the aim of 'more of the same but on steeper ground'. I think it also especially concerning, that it is clear from this thread, people don't really understand the outcomes/side effects fully.

I get the feeling, people think by taking supplements, they are going to get quick gains without the hard work. Maybe I am missing out, but to be honest, I would rather not have muscles full of water!

[Will Hunt]

My purely anecdotal experience is that a friend of a friend tried dosing with creatine.

He lost his neck. It simply disappeared.

[Ti_pin_man]

WEIGHT: 74KG
HEIGHT: 6 foot
GRADE PEAK: Several Font 7a's last year
AIM: More of the same this year and on steeper stuff not just techie climbs

TRAINING: I'm currently doing fingerboard sets 3 times a week and a couple of sets of 4x4's around looking after my daughters.  I also cycle 20 miles home from work.

Weirdly my ride home knocked 3 - 4 mins off my record time.  Whilst pleased with the timing I dont attribute it to the Creatine, just some good luck with the traffic lights and maybe a little placebo.  What I did notice after the ride is my legs felt tight, not cramps just tight, I could feel them.  I drank more and thought nothing of it.  A couple of days later I now attribute this to the creatine, this tightness, as I have gotten the same feeling after my finger sets in my arms, especially the lower arms and fingers.  Its not uncomfortable.  Just odd. 

WATER RETENTION: As for water retention, at this time I clearly haven't seen my weight change but I have notice going to the loo is a little more of a push    

Without sounding like a knob, do you really think it is necessary to take supplements to help improve? Also, it seems odd doing fingerboarding three times a week to help improve your climbing on steep ground?

Don't get me wrong, I know very little about 'training' and supplements, but to me this seems absolutely insane to take supplements like creatine, with the aim of 'more of the same but on steeper ground'. I think it also especially concerning, that it is clear from this thread, people don't really understand the outcomes/side effects fully.

I get the feeling, people think by taking supplements, they are going to get quick gains without the hard work. Maybe I am missing out, but to be honest, I would rather not have muscles full of water!

Not entirely, I dont have any great expectations, I'm experimenting, seeing what it does for a short period as I transition from focus on my finger strength and moving to steep stuff.  I only have one week left of the fingerboard set and then go into a 6-8 week block of strength training.    Trust me, I'll be doing plenty of hard work and am just interested to see if it helps or not.  I dont have high expectations but try this to see what happens. Its not going to kill me, its not illegal, its a subjective test, I dont see it as a magic pill, I do it out of an interest and because the online information doesnt prove one way or another if taking it will help.  So I'll see what happens.

5 grams in the official scoop.  I'm shy of a full scoop so about 4.

[Three Nine]

I prescribe you a book-long course of '9 out of 10 climbers'

[Ti_pin_man]

I prescribe you a book-long course of '9 out of 10 climbers'

Already got that one in my library, but thank you for the kind offer.

[petejh]

Without sounding like a knob, do you really think it is necessary to take supplements to help improve? Also, it seems odd doing fingerboarding three times a week to help improve your climbing on steep ground?

Don't get me wrong, I know very little about 'training' and supplements, but to me this seems absolutely insane to take supplements like creatine, with the aim of 'more of the same but on steeper ground'. I think it also especially concerning, that it is clear from this thread, people don't really understand the outcomes/side effects fully.

I get the feeling, people think by taking supplements, they are going to get quick gains without the hard work. Maybe I am missing out, but to be honest, I would rather not have muscles full of water!

I can't speak for anybody else nor make assumptions about their inner beliefs. But I certainly don't take creatine, beta-alanine, beetroot juice, caffeine or rapidly-absorbed glucose between attempts - 5 actions I take that might be considered 'supplementing' -  in the hope that this will lead to quick gains without hard work. I put in more than enough of the hard work, no question about that. And I believe in gathering as much info as I can about something and then making an informed choice.

There's a really complex subject to be explored about how much effort, meaning etc. you allocate to an arbitrary activity like climbing.

Long-term side effects, absolutely. Creatine, beta-al, caffeine etc. may turn out to be as or more harmful than sugar when taken over a lifetime. Have you examined your diet lately and questioned the long-term side-effects of your lifestyle choices? Not a criticism, just putting it in context.

[Ti_pin_man]

processed food will be the death of our generation 

I'm teasing with a lot of what I say.  I'm an average joe who wants to try this for a brief few weeks of strength training and see if it helps me get some steeper 7a ticks.  I experiment with myself simply because there is so little evidence of the benefits, or otherwise, to climbers using Creatine.  I actually wouldnt take any supplement deemed illegal.  Creatine is used in a lot of anaerobic sports by many people.  Its not illegal even for competitors.  I'm also not about to chase Ondra up his Dawn Wall one day effort.  An average joe just interested in things. 

[a dense loner]

A fair few good climbers I know take creatine and don't want people to know, they all climb 8B, at least.
This is not to say taking it will make you climb 8B but they do and they do. Oh and that's just the Brits.

[petejh]

To poke the nest a little bit more..
Starting with the assumption that the evidence is accurate that shows creatine, beta alanine and high-nitrate vegetable juice produce marginal gains in different performance parameters relevant to climbing, the question could be turned around to ask: what reasons are there for choosing not to use one or more of these ergogenic aids? - given that better shoes, lighter equipment, better technology for discovering beta, better training programs and facilities, vast sums spent on accommodation and flights to sunny training areas with softer grades and dieting to lose weight are all well-accepted methods to aid improvement at climbing?

[Duma]

A fair few good climbers I know take creatine and don't want people to know, they all climb 8B, at least.
This is not to say taking it will make you climb 8B but they do and they do. Oh and that's just the Brits.

This is the interesting bit - there's obviously some reluctance to admit to it, why is that? It feels like cheating?

[abarro81]

You'll be using knee pads next Pete

[petejh]

I've always said I'll use them on routes where they give a benefit, whether or not the route was originally done without. That said, I'd be gutted if someone tamed a boulder-problem/route monstrosity such as Hubble by use of a knee-pad. Boulder problems that were originally done without - I think my personal ethic is to not use a pad but to use any chemical compound known or as yet unknown to science

[Stubbs]

Pete why don't you take your point further: there are plenty of performance enhancing substances readily available and not strictly illegal, but that are banned under competitions rules. As climbing on rocks falls outside of these rules, why not use these substances too?

[Oldmanmatt]

Haribo.

They always improve my performance.

Especially Star Mix.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mark s]

dont forget to buy the most expensive creatine,its proven the more you pay the greater the placebo effect.

[Stubbs]

 

A fair few good climbers I know take creatine and don't want people to know, they all climb 8B, at least.
This is not to say taking it will make you climb 8B but they do and they do. Oh and that's just the Brits.

For balance none of the 8B and above climbers I know take creatine.

[mark s]

A fair few good climbers I know take creatine and don't want people to know, they all climb 8B, at least.
This is not to say taking it will make you climb 8B but they do and they do. Oh and that's just the Brits.

For balance none of the 8B and above climbers I know take creatine.

none of the strong people i know at the gym bother with it either

[Stubbs]

I guess the gym folk may be using more erm 'effective' supplements?!

[TobyD]

That said, I'd be gutted if someone tamed a boulder-problem/route monstrosity such as Hubble by use of a knee-pad.

SShhh... you'll encourage Barrows

[Three Nine]

A fair few good climbers I know take creatine and don't want people to know, they all climb 8B, at least.
This is not to say taking it will make you climb 8B but they do and they do. Oh and that's just the Brits.

Name and shame then you fuckin pussy

[a dense loner]

I don't want to be rude but you have absolutely no idea what people do in the privacy of their own home if they don't want people to know Stubbs. Maybe the depot is more reluctant to talk about it? I'd tell you people who I know you know that take it but like I said they don't want you to know. Capice?

[petejh]

Pete why don't you take your point further: there are plenty of performance enhancing substances readily available and not strictly illegal, but that are banned under competitions rules. As climbing on rocks falls outside of these rules, why not use these substances too?

Go on then, why not?

I'm not up on other stuff apart from the well-known ones I've mentioned, plus Bi-carb of soda which is proven to significantly buffer lactic and improve performance in anaerobic tests and has been used by athletes for a long time (I know, lactic isn't the issue etc. etc.) but it gives you the terrible shits and has high salt content. I think a well-known Scottish wad may have experimented with bi-carb...

[Three Nine]

I don't want to be rude but you have absolutely no idea what people do in the privacy of their own home if they don't want people to know Stubbs. Maybe the depot is more reluctant to talk about it? I'd tell you people who I know you know that take it but like I said they don't want you to know. Capice?

How utterly pathetic. Be a man

[a dense loner]

To be fair to Stubbs I can understand where he's coming from. When there's a couple of people stood stooped out of the wind and sheep shit at almscliff and you've gotta put your shoes back on in the break in the blizzard it's hard to believe that some people take climbing seriously.