Author Topic: Car advice  (Read 34477 times)

Offline Fultonius

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #400 on: July 09, 2017, 10:39:17 pm »
Anyone dropped a grand on a Telsa pre-order?  You can cancel and get a refund at any point. I'm tempted in a "well, I don't know what position I'll be in in mid 2018 but maybe a new Tesla would fit the bill" way of thinking...

I have now got a regular 62 mile drive to work when I'm on site. I have looked into getting a Renault Zoe as, with 52p per mile "business mileage" I would actually make money driving to work. The major issue is, even though I work at a wind turbine, the owner isn't willing to put in a charge point. I live in a flat so there's nowhere to charge overnight, so, for now it looks like I might be stuck.  :(

Online tomtom

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #401 on: July 10, 2017, 07:58:57 am »
RE Ev's - its worth looking at the actual costs of the 'fuel' - in this case electricity.

I read quite an interesting breakdown of one of those Outlander PHEV's - and it reconed that on a medium/pricey electricity tarrif it worked out at 60mpg (when converted via petrol costs)..

Also - the ecotricity points (in petrol stations) are not cheap... they have to make their installation costs (c.50k per point I heard) back somehow... Though some places like IKEA give you ££ off your bill if you charge there...

If your work has the infrastructure then great... for me, my 'commute' is 110 miles to Hull and back once and occasionally twice a week. There are 3 public charging points in Hull. 250000 people. Maybe when range is reliably 250 miles (I too looked at a Tesla pre-order) a full EV would be a runner for me.

Additional anecdote - in a car forum I contribute to, one of the posters there - at his work they installed free charge points. He ditched his diesel, bought an i3 and now has a 100% FOC commute...

I don't think we're at a tipping point, but its getting close.....

Offline dave

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #402 on: July 10, 2017, 08:23:41 am »
RE Ev's - its worth looking at the actual costs of the 'fuel' - in this case electricity.

I read quite an interesting breakdown of one of those Outlander PHEV's - and it reconed that on a medium/pricey electricity tarrif it worked out at 60mpg (when converted via petrol costs)..

60mpg isn't bad for a 2-tonne petrol SUV!

I did a bit of maths based on our annual mileage and driving patterns of the current Passat. Basically I reckoned the 50% of our annual mile which is on long journeys would increase in cost by 20%, but the 50% which is local or within the mainly-EV range of an Outlander would decrease in cost by two thirds at least (Outlander EV range costing ~6.5p per mile, equivalent Passat cost 18-25p per mile). So overall a net winner if fuel costs alone are considered. That was based on our fixed tariff home supply at 12.5p per kwh, if we went to a smart meter and charged at night we could maybe half that EV cost per mile again.

Also - the ecotricity points (in petrol stations) are not cheap

That is true. Looked like 17p per kwh plus a £3 hookup fee. So to fully charge an Outlander PHEV battery (10kwh - the battery is 12kwh but always keeps 2kwh) you're talking £4.70. When test driving the Outlander the dealer said if running in "charge" mode it would take either 3 or 4 litres of fuel to fully charge the battery, which at current fuel prices is either cheaper or exactly the same as the Ecotricity charger, only without the 30min wait. So basically from a cost point of view there's nothing to be gained by rapid charging it at those prices. I suspect they have priced them like that specifically to deter plugin hybrid users clogging up the stations to prioritise full EV user (which is fair enough).
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Online tomtom

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #403 on: July 10, 2017, 08:36:30 am »
Some good numbers there Dave..

It'll be interesting to see how the market shakes up... will you (for example) find more shops/supermarkets/coffee shops/McDonalds etc.. offering free charges - they make their ££ from the customer spending 30-40 min charging and having a soy-latte and quinoa salad ££kerching ?

When will the first FAKE charge point be set up! Scam your card details etc... :)

Offline dave

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #404 on: July 10, 2017, 08:47:20 am »
I doubt I personally would as we never currently physically set foot in any supermarkets or god forbid mcdonalds at present anyway. Metropolitan liberal elite mate, it's all about online shopping and local artisanal barista joints while Pippa is at cello lessons.

What is clear is that you could get a two or three year old Leaf for local-ish driving AND say a 5-6 year old TDi estate for long holidays drives for the same money or less than any of the current limited range of affordable family-size plugin hybrids. Obvs then you've got to insure two cars, but worth a look if you're a family which was running one big main car plus a clapped out runaround banger for 'er indoors anyway.
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Offline petejh

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #405 on: July 10, 2017, 09:58:18 am »
Good insight BB, cheers.


Boot doesn't really fit a pad, does just fit 2 dogs.


Anyone know which the best breeds of dog are to land on heavily from 12ft?


Moon Pluto.




Offline chris j

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #406 on: July 10, 2017, 10:47:15 am »

What is clear is that you could get a two or three year old Leaf for local-ish driving AND say a 5-6 year old TDi estate for long holidays drives for the same money or less than any of the current limited range of affordable family-size plugin hybrids.

Can a Leaf take 2 rear facing child seats & a good size buggy? If it can or there's another relatively affordable (2nd hand) full EV that can (that's not the size of a Tesla Model S) I'll be all over it...
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Offline dave

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #407 on: July 10, 2017, 11:01:45 am »
From what we saw of it, I would say yes or at least possibly. Will depend on what kind of size/shape/volume the buggy folds to, but I was surprised by how decent the boot was. Certainly way bigger boot than our old Micra.
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Online tomtom

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #408 on: July 10, 2017, 12:54:35 pm »
MOST importantly - can you report how well each EV/Plugin etc.. does a handbrake turn in the Plantation car park?

Offline dave

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #409 on: July 10, 2017, 12:58:52 pm »
Can you even do a handbrake turn with a pushbutton electric handbrake? Maybe Slackline can help us root the BIOS and hack the firmware 1110100101011000111010101010.
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Online tomtom

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #410 on: July 10, 2017, 01:00:08 pm »
Can you even do a handbrake turn with a pushbutton electric handbrake? Maybe Slackline can help us root the BIOS and hack the firmware 1110100101011000111010101010.

Come on Ice -just give it a try :)

Offline dave

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #411 on: July 10, 2017, 07:37:17 pm »
Leaf update: boot will just take my large-pod-with-a-moon-launchpad-inside, but not laid flat. Bags etc would fit behind. Will try and test with a moon warrior this week.

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Online tomtom

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #412 on: July 10, 2017, 08:10:13 pm »
That's pretty big for a hatchback boot...

Offline dave

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #413 on: July 10, 2017, 10:18:02 pm »
Will also take a smaller mat like an old small pod flat in the bottom.



Also fitted Scouse's purple warrior just fine. And his bouldering mat.

What is clear that the main impediment to getting stuff in isn't the size of the boot but the narrow opening, as if often the case on smaller cars.

Gone out to Stanage and back tonight. Drives easily, and corners pretty flat too. Decent stereo, coped with the heavy bass on Still D.R.E. just fine, and didn't even flinch at Bitch Niggaz. Going to put it through its Wu Tang paces tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:36:59 pm by dave »
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Offline Fultonius

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #414 on: July 10, 2017, 11:01:46 pm »
RE Ev's - its worth looking at the actual costs of the 'fuel' - in this case electricity.

I read quite an interesting breakdown of one of those Outlander PHEV's - and it reconed that on a medium/pricey electricity tarrif it worked out at 60mpg (when converted via petrol costs)..

Also - the ecotricity points (in petrol stations) are not cheap... they have to make their installation costs (c.50k per point I heard) back somehow... Though some places like IKEA give you ££ off your bill if you charge there...

If your work has the infrastructure then great... for me, my 'commute' is 110 miles to Hull and back once and occasionally twice a week. There are 3 public charging points in Hull. 250000 people. Maybe when range is reliably 250 miles (I too looked at a Tesla pre-order) a full EV would be a runner for me.

Additional anecdote - in a car forum I contribute to, one of the posters there - at his work they installed free charge points. He ditched his diesel, bought an i3 and now has a 100% FOC commute...

I don't think we're at a tipping point, but its getting close.....

I crunched some numbers on the Zoe and the annual cost per mile of the battery lease was surprisingly close to the fuel cost of a 50+mpg vehicle.

Assume 1000 miles per month, comparing only monthly running costs:

Zoe = £30 in electricity (home charge) plus £110 battery lease = £140/month (zero tonnes CO2 if you charge of your own wind turbine/solar panels etc.)
Generic Cheap diesel small turbo petrol (Polo 1.2 TSI 45MPG) = £147/month petrol  (3 Tonnes C02)

You *can* buy the battery outright for an extra £6k.

I'm still keen! Just the charging issue for me to solve...

Offline tommytwotone

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #415 on: July 16, 2017, 11:23:01 pm »
The Park and Ride in Leeds I use has a bunch of charging points, if we did take the plunge we'd be paying zero to charge up.

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Offline andy_e

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #416 on: July 17, 2017, 09:19:40 am »
(zero tonnes CO2 if you charge of your own wind turbine/solar panels etc.)

Another option would be to use an energy supplier who provide a renewables-only tariff...

Online tomtom

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #417 on: July 17, 2017, 10:26:56 am »
The Park and Ride in Leeds I use has a bunch of charging points, if we did take the plunge we'd be paying zero to charge up.

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Bet they're not free... (be pleasantly surprised if so!).

Offline dave

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #418 on: July 17, 2017, 11:04:53 am »
We've taken decision that we're probably gonna get a few-yea-old Leaf later this summer when the new regs come out and people start to trade in, hopefully plenty of chance for a deal. Apparently Nissan dealers are offering 0% finance on used and £1k of the deposit, and free home charger installed.

Also, and it's no use to me, but if you've got a Leaf then you can rock up at any Nissan dealership and charge for fuck-all. Might be handy if anyone works near one. Might even extend to other makes/other dealerships, as mutually they benefit each other if life is made easier for all EV owners.
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Offline tommytwotone

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #419 on: July 17, 2017, 03:41:28 pm »
The Park and Ride in Leeds I use has a bunch of charging points, if we did take the plunge we'd be paying zero to charge up.

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Bet they're not free... (be pleasantly surprised if so!).
Looks like they are...

http://www.wymetro.com/parkandride



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Offline andy_e

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #420 on: July 18, 2017, 08:48:40 am »
Back to the gas guzzlers... Does anyone have a Skoda Rapid estate? Are they a Fabia replacement?

Offline sdm

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #421 on: July 18, 2017, 12:11:28 pm »
(zero tonnes CO2 if you charge of your own wind turbine/solar panels etc.)

Another option would be to use an energy supplier who provide a renewables-only tariff...

As long as you're drawing electricity from the grid, these tariffs are nothing but marketing BS used to make people feel better about themselves.

Until the whole grid is all renewables, every user drawing from the grid is using their share of wind, solar, gas, coal and nuclear.

Depending on the provider, these tariffs may lead to a slight increase in the renewables contribution to the grid but there can be no such thing as a fossil fuel free tariff as long as you are drawing electricity from the grid.

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #422 on: July 18, 2017, 03:03:09 pm »
Though - its interesting to note that for July (so far) Coal stations have only been running at 10% of load - and at 20% for the year to date... (OK - Oil and Gas will be more than that but....)

Offline Duma

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #423 on: July 18, 2017, 03:32:21 pm »
Oil won't, it'll be pretty much zero. Gas is the biggest chunk of our grid though
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Offline Duma

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Re: Car advice
« Reply #424 on: July 18, 2017, 03:34:47 pm »
Yesterday was the third highest ever for PV generation in the UK too. (8.3GW peak)
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