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ARCing/Aerocap tips (Read 12782 times)

Luke Owens

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#25 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 16, 2015, 10:26:42 am
Luke - I think that's fine, though climbing is better since it teaches you to climb obviously. If you're worried then just make sure that you're holding each hold for a length of time vaguely comparable to when climbing. With respect to volume, more is better from the point of view of getting fit. The more you do, the more it'll tire you out for strength work though, that's where a balance needs to be struck.

Just seen this, thanks Alex. I've always done more strength stuff than fitness so I'm really unbalanced/unfit because of it (think running up short 7b's on redpoint by the skin of my teeth and getting pumped to hell on long ~6b's). I just need to dedicate a lot of time to the fitness side of things.

I dream of the day I can climb a route and not get that pumped and actually get something back on a jug...!

Something else that I find strange is some people I know that climb well and don't get as half as pumped as I do and think I'm speaking a different language if I mention aerocap. They have never done anything like it in their life. Does everyone have a different base level of fitness? I'm guessing people adapt differently to different types of training too.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 10:52:27 am by Luke Owens »

slackline

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#26 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 16, 2015, 11:02:34 am
Does everyone have a different base level of fitness? I'm guessing people adapt differently to different types of training too.

Yes, everyone is genetically different, unless your a monozygotic (identical) twin.

Heres an article to get you started...

Bouchard, Claude, and Tuomo Rankinen. "Individual differences in response to regular physical activity." Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 33 (2001): S446-51.

I think there is a mention of this in Steve Houses Training for the New Alpinism.

There are of course a lot more papers on it, but I'll leave you to sifting through some of the results.

TobyD

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#27 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 17, 2015, 11:26:02 pm
Does everyone have a different base level of fitness? I'm guessing people adapt differently to different types of training too.
Bouchard, Claude, and Tuomo Rankinen. "Individual differences in response to regular physical activity." Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 33 (2001): S446-51.

I'm not disagreeing with your point,but this paper looks at mainly VO2 max and heart rate; neither of which i can see having a massive bearing on redpointing. I wonder whether most climbers will have reached a physical level to begin to nudge at the boudaries of their genetic potential, and i suspect that a lot of training adaptationis down to waht people enjoy.  People who like getting pumped vs those who enjoy spending hours trying to one arm a slopy edge

Stu Littlefair

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#28 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 18, 2015, 07:48:54 am
I've always believed that people differ hugely in their untrained levels of vascularity, which is a huge component of aerobic fitness for climbing.

In other words some people are "naturally fit". I believe this without any supports evidence.

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#29 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 18, 2015, 08:27:16 am
That is absolutely true. Young kids can dangle forever from a bar and not get pumped, because of the different vascularity and circulation.
Also, muscles play a big role in this: the bigger they are, the worse the pump, especially in the forearms, because of the vessels compression.
I still want big muscles though, and one arming slopey edges.

Three Nine

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#30 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 18, 2015, 10:28:29 am
I've always believed that people differ hugely in their untrained levels of vascularity, which is a huge component of aerobic fitness for climbing.

In other words some people are "naturally fit". I believe this without any supports evidence.

Well obviously, just like some are naturally strong

petejh

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#31 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 18, 2015, 11:10:42 am
Something else that I find strange is some people I know that climb well and don't get as half as pumped as I do and think I'm speaking a different language if I mention aerocap. They have never done anything like it in their life.
I bet they have - I bet they'll have done a shit-load of trad-climbing. AKA ledge-shuffling AKA arc training. A few years of this provides a solid foundation for being able to rest up a lot of stuff without entering anerobic zone - watch a good solid E5 trad climber (not someone pushing their grade) who gets out on the rock lots, on anything vertical to slightly overhanging and you'll know what I mean.

Does everyone have a different base level of fitness? I'm guessing people adapt differently to different types of training too.

(I think..) Everybody differs in their natural ability to run 100, 1000 and 10000 metres (the 1st two anerobic, the 3rd aerobic), as well as differing in their natural ability to leg-press and hamstring curl with weight. Most people sit in (grade)bands of similarity with relatively few outliers at each end.

Climbing is running (aero or ano) with your forearms, or hamstring curls with your fingers. Except it's mostly isometric contractions instead of lengthening/shortening of muscles. Usually a combo of aero/ano/strength with one emphasized over the other depending on the style of route.
edit - actually, it's like running with your legs fixed at a slightly bent angle and bouncing along..

Once you start training aerobic or anerobic fitness, or strength, everyone's body differs in its response to the same training. Again with people pigeon-holing into bands of similarity of response with relatively few extreme outliers.


All my opinion based on reading but no sauce.


Unless you're genetically screwed-over (unlikely) in the department responsible for your body's response to good quality ano/aero training there's no physical reason why you can't become a fitness wad.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 11:20:59 am by petejh »

Luke Owens

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#32 Re: ARCing/Aerocap tips
April 19, 2015, 01:12:02 am

I bet they have - I bet they'll have done a shit-load of trad-climbing. AKA ledge-shuffling AKA arc training. A few years of this provides a solid foundation for being able to rest up a lot of stuff without entering anerobic zone - watch a good solid E5 trad climber (not someone pushing their grade) who gets out on the rock lots, on anything vertical to slightly overhanging and you'll know what I mean.

Ally keeps saying this to me too. That because I never did any trad I've never really got the mileage in. I started my climbing career redpointing at Dinbren...

I've spent the last couple of weeks getting pumped doing mileage on the Hornby Crags, I'm convincing myself this will help me.

(I think..) Everybody differs in their natural ability to run 100, 1000 and 10000 metres (the 1st two anerobic, the 3rd aerobic), as well as differing in their natural ability to leg-press and hamstring curl with weight. Most people sit in (grade)bands of similarity with relatively few outliers at each end.

Climbing is running (aero or ano) with your forearms, or hamstring curls with your fingers. Except it's mostly isometric contractions instead of lengthening/shortening of muscles. Usually a combo of aero/ano/strength with one emphasized over the other depending on the style of route.
edit - actually, it's like running with your legs fixed at a slightly bent angle and bouncing along..

Once you start training aerobic or anerobic fitness, or strength, everyone's body differs in its response to the same training. Again with people pigeon-holing into bands of similarity of response with relatively few extreme outliers.


All my opinion based on reading but no sauce.


This is interesting, I used to do a lot of running before I climbing specifically running 10k races. My Dad (who is a brilliant runner) always used to tell me to train by staying just below my anerobic threshold; and the long stints of this would increase my aerobic capacity and stop me going anaerobic as quick. I must admit I did loads of it and my times kept coming down, I was able to run faster without crossing my threshold. I guess it's roughly the same for climbing.


Unless you're genetically screwed-over (unlikely) in the department responsible for your body's response to good quality ano/aero training there's no physical reason why you can't become a fitness wad.

I hope this is true, I'm heading to Ceuse again in September and I don't want to get shutdown!

 

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