[ghisino]

has anyone here ever played on hard single pitches at the top of the escalés, 7c-8b?
papy onsight, seance tenante, graphique, braves gens... that kind of stuff.

apart expecting nasty fingery cruxes and stiff grades, i have no clue about how they actually climb, and especially about how convenient it is to run redpoint laps and/or to minitrax/toprope them (is a belay seat needed? are some of the lines too steep/traversing for fixed lines or topropes?)

i am considering the gorges for my next holidays (end of april/beginning of may) with a mixed program : relaxed multipitches during the warmest hours, and some redpointing in late afternoon...

[jwi]

Have nothing useful to add, except that I'm curious about the answers. I may also go there late april if possible.

Didn't find any relaxed multipitch routes there last year though. That might be the crux of the plan.

I suppose you've seen Clement's topo in Grimper 158H? It has plenty of useful hints in the route descriptions.

[ghisino]

I suppose you've seen Clement's topo in Grimper 158H? It has plenty of useful hints in the route descriptions.

nope. i can't remember last time i've bought grimper actually. i often find it depressingly poor quality and would rather buy Vertical (even though i'm not an apinist)

[mrjonathanr]

Papy on Sight is ultra easy to get on/off, just a 3-move boulder problem near the top.

Farci pas la is a great route, stiff at the grade, easy to access, mort a venise is adjacent but at your grade ghisino you could just dog up the route if you blew it onsight. It's a stamina fest so dig in on that one. 

Liqueur de Coco is a beautiful route with a straight abseil in but your belayer's hanging on bolts. Super elegant technical wall climbing with crux near the top. Mega- and soft at the grade if you're a technician, not a thug.

I always fancied Polpot and Seance Tenante. Latter is fairly accessible with super view from Liqueur wall, the first would be a mare to belay and jug out of.

Take it or leave it and that 7c+ to its left (very chipped though) would be easy to access too.

I've belayed and jugged out  on rest days on some of the other routes around those grades and found it all okay (so long as you can jumar..)

PS just thought - Tiquet pour un taquet might be a good intro route for that sort of thing, nice 7b+ wall climbing, accessible.

[mrjonathanr]

Reread your post - I don't think the grades are stiff if you are technically minded.

A belay seat never seemed necessary to me.

The climbing is brilliant, it's a major world destination. One of the best crags I've ever been to, bar none.

[Paul B]

has anyone here ever played on hard single pitches at the top of the escalés, 7c-8b?
papy onsight, seance tenante, graphique, braves gens... that kind of stuff.

Yes, although only a few 'hard' things as they're a bit of a PITA.

apart expecting nasty fingery cruxes and stiff grades, i have no clue about how they actually climb, and especially about how convenient it is to run redpoint laps and/or to minitrax/toprope them (is a belay seat needed? are some of the lines too steep/traversing for fixed lines or topropes?)

This surely depends on how patient your second is? Resting on Verdon belay between redpoints is hardly ideal. I'm not sure of all of the routes you've listed but you'd get away with a mini-trax etc. on the ones I'm familiar with. I'm presuming from the route list you've given you're interested in the Old Skool routes rather than the newer stuff as if you just fancy testing yourself later on in the day then there's a whole host of harder (tufa style) routes on the other side of the Gorge (Hulk etc.).

As suggested, they're thin and techy (and I'd agree that even with that in mind they're stiff) and surprisingly powerful at times. This is a contrast to the other side of the gorge where it's steeper, less techy and grades are probably more in-line with elsewhere in Europe.

i am considering the gorges for my next holidays (end of april/beginning of may) with a mixed program : relaxed multipitches during the warmest hours, and some redpointing in late afternoon...

For me, that time of year is less than ideal with more storms and in the latter part just plain too hot for me (especially if trying hard). Even in October on the 'easy stuff' I needed to avoid the sun. In all honesty as well, for me, it isn't where the main quality of the Gorge is; I'd rather be having bigger days on the F7s (it's a bit of a love/hate relationship).

Again, thinking on alternatives there was a recent Grimpeur special edition that covered a load of newly developed/dodgy access cliffs around the area. Some of the harder stuff on this looked great.

[TobyD]

Papy on Sight is ultra easy to get on/off, just a 3-move boulder problem near the top.

Albeit, a very hard, technical fingery boulder problem! However, it is very easy access; and a good one for exhibitionists, as there will be at least 50 tourists watching at any given point.

[ghisino]

. I'm presuming from the route list you've given you're interested in the Old Skool routes rather than the newer stuff as if you just fancy testing yourself later on in the day then there's a whole host of harder (tufa style) routes on the other side of the Gorge (Hulk etc.).

As suggested, they're thin and techy (and I'd agree that even with that in mind they're stiff) and surprisingly powerful at times. This is a contrast to the other side of the gorge where it's steeper, less techy and grades are probably more in-line with elsewhere in Europe..

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, actually for this trip i'm more interested in the old school  stuff, although I'm aware of the rive gauche crags.

Apart from the myth and the spectacular setting, my sixth sense says they are a better bet for doing something really close to my limit in a relatively short time... On longer pumpier stuff I tend to need more rest days and especially more "failed attempts" to get the pacing right and refine the easy moves beta.

Actually i am considering three or four destinations (ceuse, fj, tarn) and will decide according to the weather...
All this searching about routes character is to see if I can train in a way that will be a good compromise for all of them
 (this means, for instance, that for fj I have a "long and pumpy" route at the top of my list, for ceuse and tarn short and bouldery ones)

[MischaHY]

What would it be like come June? Myself and a few others are looking to get out there - would temps still be ok? Totally happy to dodge the sun and climb afternoon/evenings etc.

Apologies for the thread hijack!

[Paul B]

What would it be like come June? Myself and a few others are looking to get out there - would temps still be ok? Totally happy to dodge the sun and climb afternoon/evenings etc.

Apologies for the thread hijack!

It won't be pleasant IMO. For reference, in late Sep one year Nat and I wanted to do Pichenibule and we abbed in around 3pm in order to climb in the shade.
You could climb on the Duc (but you'll soon run out of routes I'd imagine), whereby you'd want to be finished by 2-3pm (based on late Sep sun again).

I wouldn't go to the Verdon at the time of year even the OP was suggesting, perhaps you're better in the heat than I, but there isn't a great deal of shade offered on even the classic style Chimney routes. That said some people go to Font in the Summer...

[mrjonathanr]

What would it be like come June? Myself and a few others are looking to get out there - would temps still be ok? Totally happy to dodge the sun and climb afternoon/evenings etc.

Apologies for the thread hijack!

I climbed there  a number of Augusts in years gone by.

It's roasting. June will not be a great deal cooler.

But...it's very dry, not humid and you can start late afternoon and finish at dark, or get up very early, or both.  Later in the day the rock is warm but a strong updraft starts as the day cools. The summer isn't ideal (and winter can be very cold btw) but you can still have a great time and be productive. I'd do it.

[MischaHY]

We'd be there for around four weeks probably so would have plenty of wiggle room to get the timings right. Much easier than trying to work a short trip in. I'm usually pretty good in the heat, up to around 25 degrees - and the average temps for Verdon in June come out as 20-22.

[ghisino]

In june i'd rather go to céuse!

The duc routes can be great at that time of the year.alix punk is a monster classic if you  cruise tufa 7a.
Same goes for cragging in hulk or galetas I suppose.

The escalés will be climbable but uncomfortable in the sun, pleasant in the shade but not good conditions for anything hard.

Some routes get the shade earlier than others because they are around some pillar etc...in any case no earlier than 2 pm.

[Paul B]

We'd be there for around four weeks probably so would have plenty of wiggle room to get the timings right. Much easier than trying to work a short trip in. I'm usually pretty good in the heat, up to around 25 degrees - and the average temps for Verdon in June come out as 20-22.

I don't understand purposefully going to somewhere out of condition, why not take your 3 week trip in September and get the most out of it? I'm considering going one December so that I can do a route that catches the sun all day, I couldn't even entertain it this October.

Those temps look optomistically low IMO.

[MischaHY]

In june i'd rather go to céuse!

The duc routes can be great at that time of the year.alix punk is a monster classic if you  cruise tufa 7a.
Same goes for cragging in hulk or galetas I suppose.

The escalés will be climbable but uncomfortable in the sun, pleasant in the shade but not good conditions for anything hard.

Some routes get the shade earlier than others because they are around some pillar etc...in any case no earlier than 2 pm.

Any ideas on topo for Galetas cave? Can't seem to find one anywhere - will be buying the local guide when there but would be nice to have a look beforehand! :D

[ghisino]

A good Google or Google image search should do it...it isn't in any official topo (Hulk is)

[Paul B]

A good Google or Google image search should do it...it isn't in any official topo (Hulk is)

It's in the Grimper magazine (Nina Caprez Cover - Verdon Special), which is available in the village.

If you drop me a PM I can send a photo of that specific page (although it may take me a while to remember). I'd intended to scan it in so I didn't lose it until I worked out how long that'd take me (unless I can somehow dismantle it and feed it through a copier).

FYI it looks as if there are a few 6 ish warmups on the LHS, a few middling 7s on the RHS and then 7b+, 7c, 8a, 8a+, 8b+,8b+, 9a, 9a, 9a up the middle.

I'd look into Ramirole if you're happy in the 8s.

I'm told this:
http://faudou.pagesperso-orange.fr/topo.verdon.1.2013.htm

is currently the best guidebook to buy.

[MischaHY]

A good Google or Google image search should do it...it isn't in any official topo (Hulk is)

It's in the Grimper magazine (Nina Caprez Cover - Verdon Special), which is available in the village.

If you drop me a PM I can send a photo of that specific page (although it may take me a while to remember). I'd intended to scan it in so I didn't lose it until I worked out how long that'd take me (unless I can somehow dismantle it and feed it through a copier).

FYI it looks as if there are a few 6 ish warmups on the LHS, a few middling 7s on the RHS and then 7b+, 7c, 8a, 8a+, 8b+,8b+, 9a, 9a, 9a up the middle.

I'd look into Ramirole if you're happy in the 8s.

I'm told this:
http://faudou.pagesperso-orange.fr/topo.verdon.1.2013.htm

is currently the best guidebook to buy.

Top class knowledge dude! I'll PM you.

[Paul B]

Replied, hopefully (from my phone)...