[mctrials23]

Really simple question guys. I'm sure loads of you have had tennis elbow over the years but I was wondering if you ever found that it reduced the blood supply to the affected forearm / hand.

I have been struggling with it for the past year on and off. I'm an idiot and when its find I tend to ease up / stop the rehab and then it suddenly takes a nosedive and I'm pissed off and regretting my laziness.

Sometimes if I warm up perfectly its mostly alright and doesn't affect my session but I'm not entirely sure what this perfect warm up is or I would do it every time. If I don't manage this, I have issues with the arm getting pumped super quickly and staying pumped for way longer than it should do and never really recovering.

[petejh]

I've heard of this annecdotally from a few climbers - Doylo will be along soon no doubt, and Luke O.

I've been experienceing tennis elbow for a couple of months now, since doing some weighted pull-ups on axes. Some days my hand gets achey around the thumb and forefinger, in fact it's aching right now in the palm area below the thumb as I type. I'm assuming this is a symptom of nerve impingement - perhaps either from overtight muscles or scar tissue build-up - rather than reduced bloodflow. Can't say I experience the pumped-out thing that you describe, although I do get pumped easily in genereal.
I've been doing eccentric curls to treat the elbow, 7 days in and no improvement yet. Not bad enough to stop me doign anything but I want to increase my training intensity pretty soon and don't want the elbow to get worse...

Do you stretch your forearm muscles and massage with something like a lacrosse ball?

[bendavison]

Sounds like the pump could be a result of not warming up properly, rather than because of the tennis elbow.

Re warm up: I've only had/have golfers and find that doing a slower warm up, starting at a much lower level than normal usually helps.

[chris j]

I've had similar, but I think for me it is from tennis elbow like symptoms relating to a shoulder impingement. I did eccentric curls etc for a long time with no impact on the symptoms (sore/swollen elbow and very easily pumped forearms that almost seemed to have a permanent 'pre-pump'), whereas after seeing a physio and starting to sort out the shoulder impingement then the elbow and forearm problems have faded. When I slack off on the shoulder rehab then the elbow and forearm symptoms come back and I get pumped mega easily and it feels almost impossible to shake out during a climb.

Obviously your root cause may be different...

[petejh]

Chris - did you have any impingment symptoms/soreness in the shoulder area itself or nearby in the uppe bicep? For etc. weakness at a small point in range of motion when lifting the arm? or did your shoulder feel fine?

[mctrials23]

After seeing a physio and starting to sort out the shoulder impingement then the elbow and forearm problems have faded.

What exercises / stuff did the physio get you to do to help the shoulder. I think I have got some slight shoulder issues on that side so I would be happy to try some exercises to help it if that is indeed the cause.

And I am pretty sure its not just getting a flash pump because my left side which is admittedly stronger than my right has no issues at all with the warm up I do. Even if I overdo it a little, my left arm recovered 10 times quicker than my right.

[abarro81]

I've also had 'tennis elbow' like symptoms that were actually seemingly referred issues for shoulder. Theraband shizzle sorted me out. Didn't have your weird pump thing tho

[mctrials23]

The only place that I feel the issue is about 2 inches down from the actual elbow hinge in one place where it feels tight and aches. There is no "pain" just an ache in that spot.

[abarro81]

With the caveat that I haven't got a clue what I'm on about, have you tried massaging the life out of that spot?

[mctrials23]

Yeah thats the thing I have been doing a lot over the past few months and that has helped but its never cured it. That relieves some of the pressure / ache but doesn't solve the issue.

At its worst I went to a chiro/physio (cant remember which) and they said that its tennis elbow and that there was a super tight knot in the muscle that she ironed out for a good 20 minutes which helped a lot but since then it has come and gone (mainly come) and I want to address the reason for it happening and not just alleviate the symptoms.

[petejh]

Is it on the same arm you use a computer mouse, and do you use a computer a lot? That's been suggested to cause a lot of forearm and tennis elbow symptoms

[mctrials23]

Yep,

I'm at a computer 12+ hours a day. I'm a programmer so not using a mouse that much but it still gets a fair amount of use.

[petejh]

Vertical mouse / ergonomic keyboard might be worth a try? If you can bear the extortinate prices. I'm considering trying these but having trouble finding something with a sensible price tag. I do a fair amount of time on the computer at work, using a mouse. At the moment I'm trying out using my left arm to use the mouse, to see if it alleviates the symptoms in my right elbow.

[mctrials23]

I did try using my left hand for the mouse but I was too cack handed to continue. Apparently the microsoft sculpt is the best ergonomic keyboard about at the moment.

From looking at the position my hands take when I am typing, I think a lot of the issue could be that I am resting my wrists on the desk which leads to an extension of the wrist and that seems to aggravate the feeling.

[Paul B]

Vertical mouse / ergonomic keyboard might be worth a try? If you can bear the extortinate prices.

Work bought me an Evoluent 3 Mouse and it has helped a lot with my elbow issues.  Having just looked the prices are ridiculous! Lots of the CAD guys at work have ball-type mouses (trackball?).

I now have a constant tightness in my back, but that's a different niggle (almost certainly posture related).

[Sasquatch]

I think it's exceptionally rare for climbing to cause tennis elbow, but very common for it to cause golfers.  Computer is #1 issues for Tennis elbow.  If it is from climbing, I think it's generally from pinches and torquing the wrist to engage the thumb more. 

[tresor]

Getting old and fragile I had both golfers and tennis elbow in the right arm the last years and golfers in the left. While I had symptoms I experienced problems with my forearms going numb or as we say in Swedish: fell asleep. I took this as a sign that the circulation wasn't working as it should.

//Tresor

[slackline]

Apparently the microsoft sculpt is the best ergonomic keyboard about at the moment.

Looks like a parred down version of the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard 4000.  I've used one of these for > 8 years and they are brilliant (although most who try to use my computer disagree).

From looking at the position my hands take when I am typing, I think a lot of the issue could be that I am resting my wrists on the desk which leads to an extension of the wrist and that seems to aggravate the feeling.

Its recommended to have your wrists elevated whilst typing (have a search), but with this type of ergonomic keyboard its the heel of your hand that rests on the padding in front of the keyboard and if you use the additional stands for the front of the keyboard its about spot on for where your hands would otherwise be floating.

I find the problem with non-ergonomic keyboards (and laptops) is that my (and almost all adults) shoulders are wider than the width of the keyboard.  If you touch type and use the base keys then on a non-ergonomic keyboard I find I have to rotate my hands to bring the base of the thumbs closer to each other so that my fingers are over the base keys.  The split design of these keyboards prevents that and the line of my fingers is perpendicular to the bones in my forearm as a consequence.

[tomtom]

I find the long key travel on most PC keyboards makes my wrists ache. I'm fine on island style laptop keyboards - so just got an equivalent desktop one and it's much better. An apple one would probably work great too. I also swap mouse left and right hand repeatedly when either aches.

Programming can lead to some odd key presses as your often using brackets (square and regular) and other 'odd' symbols that normal typists rarely use - so are further away from the centre etc..

[chris j]

Chris - did you have any impingment symptoms/soreness in the shoulder area itself or nearby in the uppe bicep? For etc. weakness at a small point in range of motion when lifting the arm? or did your shoulder feel fine?

Mine was the fairly typical hunched forward posture from too much desk time (& weights & climbing...). Reduced range of motion rotating arms outwards or raising arms forwards above my head (basically because the top of the arm wasn't centered in the joint before starting the movement). Tightness & some inflammation in the front of the shoulder, nothing in the upper bicep.

[chris j]

Adding to the last - the main way I can tell if I'm not holding my shoulders in a good position is that something in the front moves/clicks quite painfully as I raise my hand above my head.

[TheTwig]

Really simple question guys. I'm sure loads of you have had tennis elbow over the years but I was wondering if you ever found that it reduced the blood supply to the affected forearm / hand.

I have been struggling with it for the past year on and off. I'm an idiot and when its find I tend to ease up / stop the rehab and then it suddenly takes a nosedive and I'm pissed off and regretting my laziness.

Sometimes if I warm up perfectly its mostly alright and doesn't affect my session but I'm not entirely sure what this perfect warm up is or I would do it every time. If I don't manage this, I have issues with the arm getting pumped super quickly and staying pumped for way longer than it should do and never really recovering.

Same as you, if I ever skip my rehab on rest days etc it comes back with a vengeance, though since starting my Super Duper Incredible Tennis Elbow Recovery Program (TM) I've had lots of improvement. I noticed it takes my 'worse' arm longer to warm up than the healthier one, though once I'm warmed up I notice very little pain. Tennis Elbow is a bit of a bastard in my experience because once you are properly warmed up the pain goes away nearly completely and I only notice how much damage I'm doing after the session 

[mctrials23]

I noticed it takes my 'worse' arm longer to warm up than the healthier one, though once I'm warmed up I notice very little pain. Tennis Elbow is a bit of a bastard in my experience because once you are properly warmed up the pain goes away nearly completely and I only notice how much damage I'm doing after the session 

Its odd because I don't get any "pain" with the elbow, its just a dull ache in a particular spot on the forearm and the feeling of fatigue that comes with it. Even after a session it doesn't hurt. If anything its usually better after a session. As you say, warming it up takes longer than the healthy side though.

[TheTwig]

Its odd because I don't get any "pain" with the elbow, its just a dull ache in a particular spot on the forearm and the feeling of fatigue that comes with it. Even after a session it doesn't hurt. If anything its usually better after a session. As you say, warming it up takes longer than the healthy side though.

I would kill to have no pain! Mine started off as the dull ache and it got ignored for long enough to progress to serious pain during training seasons. The fatigue thing is even worse though, the complete lack of power can be seriously depressing

[mctrials23]

I would kill to have no pain! Mine started off as the dull ache and it got ignored for long enough to progress to serious pain during training seasons. The fatigue thing is even worse though, the complete lack of power can be seriously depressing

I've always rehabbed it just enough to keep it at the dull ache stage I think. I'm going to try and make sure that I properly heal it now hopefully.

I've just ordered an ergonomic keyboard to help with it and bought one of those theraband flexbars to rehab it properly. I always found the dumbell negatives a bit of an effort and not very comfortable on my wrist.

[tresor]

Same as you, if I ever skip my rehab on rest days etc it comes back with a vengeance, though since starting my Super Duper Incredible Tennis Elbow Recovery Program (TM) I've had lots of improvement. I noticed it takes my 'worse' arm longer to warm up than the healthier one, though once I'm warmed up I notice very little pain. Tennis Elbow is a bit of a bastard in my experience because once you are properly warmed up the pain goes away nearly completely and I only notice how much damage I'm doing after the session 

My Super Duper Recovery Program that always work is to actually stop then you hit that sweet spot with no pain and a warm fuzzy feeling in the elbow. Just the right amount rehab for me, keeping on after that point always have negative effects for me, while having golfer/tennis elbow that is.

//Tresor

[Three Nine]

Really simple question guys. I'm sure loads of you have had tennis elbow over the years but I was wondering if you ever found that it reduced the blood supply to the affected forearm / hand.

I have been struggling with it for the past year on and off. I'm an idiot and when its find I tend to ease up / stop the rehab and then it suddenly takes a nosedive and I'm pissed off and regretting my laziness.

Sometimes if I warm up perfectly its mostly alright and doesn't affect my session but I'm not entirely sure what this perfect warm up is or I would do it every time. If I don't manage this, I have issues with the arm getting pumped super quickly and staying pumped for way longer than it should do and never really recovering.

Same as you, if I ever skip my rehab on rest days etc it comes back with a vengeance, though since starting my Super Duper Incredible Tennis Elbow Recovery Program (TM) I've had lots of improvement. I noticed it takes my 'worse' arm longer to warm up than the healthier one, though once I'm warmed up I notice very little pain. Tennis Elbow is a bit of a bastard in my experience because once you are properly warmed up the pain goes away nearly completely and I only notice how much damage I'm doing after the session 

Do share the SDITERP please!

[TheTwig]

I would kill to have no pain! Mine started off as the dull ache and it got ignored for long enough to progress to serious pain during training seasons. The fatigue thing is even worse though, the complete lack of power can be seriously depressing

I've always rehabbed it just enough to keep it at the dull ache stage I think. I'm going to try and make sure that I properly heal it now hopefully.

I've just ordered an ergonomic keyboard to help with it and bought one of those theraband flexbars to rehab it properly. I always found the dumbell negatives a bit of an effort and not very comfortable on my wrist.

2 thumbs up for the theraband flexbar. Though pricey I got the green one and can say it's made a big difference, and I can take it to work or whatever and do some exercises. Sometimes I feel that the limiting factor in using it is skin or grip strength and I don't see that so much with the dumbell negatives, so I prefer to do both. I've gotten lax again and the left elbow is killing like a bitch after spending 2 hours holding a fucking clipboard today. UGH 

[TheTwig]

Really simple question guys. I'm sure loads of you have had tennis elbow over the years but I was wondering if you ever found that it reduced the blood supply to the affected forearm / hand.

I have been struggling with it for the past year on and off. I'm an idiot and when its find I tend to ease up / stop the rehab and then it suddenly takes a nosedive and I'm pissed off and regretting my laziness.

Sometimes if I warm up perfectly its mostly alright and doesn't affect my session but I'm not entirely sure what this perfect warm up is or I would do it every time. If I don't manage this, I have issues with the arm getting pumped super quickly and staying pumped for way longer than it should do and never really recovering.

Same as you, if I ever skip my rehab on rest days etc it comes back with a vengeance, though since starting my Super Duper Incredible Tennis Elbow Recovery Program (TM) I've had lots of improvement. I noticed it takes my 'worse' arm longer to warm up than the healthier one, though once I'm warmed up I notice very little pain. Tennis Elbow is a bit of a bastard in my experience because once you are properly warmed up the pain goes away nearly completely and I only notice how much damage I'm doing after the session 

Do share the SDITERP please!

1) Massive amounts of massage. In order of importance (IMHO): Armaid with orange roller, Armaid with white roller, Lacrosse ball, thumbs. Make sure to do all 3 types; with the 'grain' of tissue, across the grain and then putting pressure on the sore spots while tensing/relaxing/rotating wrist etc (trigger point type stuff, way easier with Armaid than any other device tbh). After climbing I will massage to the point where it is actually painful (when I wake up the next day I am in better condition than if I hadn't massaged)

2) ergonomic mouse/keyboard. Take really regular rests at the computer and do a few basic exercises to try and get the blood really circulating around. Cut down computer use

3) Theraband flexbar 'Tyler Twist' exercises. I bought a green flexbar and it's awesome, though impossible to use after training as skin just can't handle it, so onto number 4...

4) Dumbell negatives. Most advice I've seen is to do a weight where you can do at least 40-50+ reps, I mostly stick to this weight. I also just do normal reverse curls and try and get my forearm pumped.

5) Lots and lots of happy happy happy thoughts!

[mctrials23]

I'v just received the microsoft sculpt keyboard and its already made a difference to the fatigue and ache in the forearm. The angle of the wrist is much kinder than on a normal keyboard so it seems to be a good investment/. Hopefully with this and the recovery exercises I will be better in a few months. Be warned though, its pretty odd to type on still.

[slackline]

Be warned though, its pretty odd to type on still.

How long have you been using a non-ergonomic keyboard?

My guess is a lot, lot longer than you've been using your new ergonomic keyboard.  Its not very surprising to me that you find it odd to type with.

[mctrials23]

Oh its entirely unsurprising. I have been using the ergo one for a day and the normal ones for about 15 years. It was more a point that if you need to be super fast for your job I wouldn't expect to adjust super quickly.

[slackline]

Give it a week or two.

That would still qualify as "super-quick" relative to fifteen years experience with non-ergonomic.

I find ergonomic keyboards actually help improve touch typing since crossing over from base keys is a ballache, thus reducing bad typing practise.

[petejh]

That's good to hear mctrials, I'm thinking about investing in one of these and a vert mouse but finding it hard to sped the money on a work tool! Will be interested to hear how you get on after a few more weeks.

[mctrials23]

Its going to take a while to fix completely and the keyboard is obviously more a preventative tool but today I haven't had any aches in the forearm. Usually I would feel it within 20 minutes of the start of the day so its looking good. I'll report back in a few months if I can remember.