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Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow (Read 7364 times)

mctrials23

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Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 10:04:52 am
Really simple question guys. I'm sure loads of you have had tennis elbow over the years but I was wondering if you ever found that it reduced the blood supply to the affected forearm / hand.

I have been struggling with it for the past year on and off. I'm an idiot and when its find I tend to ease up / stop the rehab and then it suddenly takes a nosedive and I'm pissed off and regretting my laziness.

Sometimes if I warm up perfectly its mostly alright and doesn't affect my session but I'm not entirely sure what this perfect warm up is or I would do it every time. If I don't manage this, I have issues with the arm getting pumped super quickly and staying pumped for way longer than it should do and never really recovering.

petejh

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#1 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 10:27:42 am
I've heard of this annecdotally from a few climbers - Doylo will be along soon no doubt, and Luke O.

I've been experienceing tennis elbow for a couple of months now, since doing some weighted pull-ups on axes. Some days my hand gets achey around the thumb and forefinger, in fact it's aching right now in the palm area below the thumb as I type. I'm assuming this is a symptom of nerve impingement - perhaps either from overtight muscles or scar tissue build-up - rather than reduced bloodflow. Can't say I experience the pumped-out thing that you describe, although I do get pumped easily in genereal.
I've been doing eccentric curls to treat the elbow, 7 days in and no improvement yet. Not bad enough to stop me doign anything but I want to increase my training intensity pretty soon and don't want the elbow to get worse...

Do you stretch your forearm muscles and massage with something like a lacrosse ball?

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#2 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 10:29:02 am
Sounds like the pump could be a result of not warming up properly, rather than because of the tennis elbow.

Re warm up: I've only had/have golfers and find that doing a slower warm up, starting at a much lower level than normal usually helps.

chris j

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#3 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 10:38:22 am
I've had similar, but I think for me it is from tennis elbow like symptoms relating to a shoulder impingement. I did eccentric curls etc for a long time with no impact on the symptoms (sore/swollen elbow and very easily pumped forearms that almost seemed to have a permanent 'pre-pump'), whereas after seeing a physio and starting to sort out the shoulder impingement then the elbow and forearm problems have faded. When I slack off on the shoulder rehab then the elbow and forearm symptoms come back and I get pumped mega easily and it feels almost impossible to shake out during a climb.

Obviously your root cause may be different...

petejh

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#4 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 10:45:28 am
Chris - did you have any impingment symptoms/soreness in the shoulder area itself or nearby in the uppe bicep? For etc. weakness at a small point in range of motion when lifting the arm? or did your shoulder feel fine?

mctrials23

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#5 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:04:07 am
After seeing a physio and starting to sort out the shoulder impingement then the elbow and forearm problems have faded.

What exercises / stuff did the physio get you to do to help the shoulder. I think I have got some slight shoulder issues on that side so I would be happy to try some exercises to help it if that is indeed the cause.

And I am pretty sure its not just getting a flash pump because my left side which is admittedly stronger than my right has no issues at all with the warm up I do. Even if I overdo it a little, my left arm recovered 10 times quicker than my right.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 11:09:58 am by mctrials23 »

abarro81

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#6 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:10:58 am
I've also had 'tennis elbow' like symptoms that were actually seemingly referred issues for shoulder. Theraband shizzle sorted me out. Didn't have your weird pump thing tho

mctrials23

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#7 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:15:27 am
The only place that I feel the issue is about 2 inches down from the actual elbow hinge in one place where it feels tight and aches. There is no "pain" just an ache in that spot.

abarro81

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#8 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:22:23 am
With the caveat that I haven't got a clue what I'm on about, have you tried massaging the life out of that spot?

mctrials23

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#9 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:33:37 am
Yeah thats the thing I have been doing a lot over the past few months and that has helped but its never cured it. That relieves some of the pressure / ache but doesn't solve the issue.

At its worst I went to a chiro/physio (cant remember which) and they said that its tennis elbow and that there was a super tight knot in the muscle that she ironed out for a good 20 minutes which helped a lot but since then it has come and gone (mainly come) and I want to address the reason for it happening and not just alleviate the symptoms.

petejh

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#10 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:43:51 am
Is it on the same arm you use a computer mouse, and do you use a computer a lot? That's been suggested to cause a lot of forearm and tennis elbow symptoms

mctrials23

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#11 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:45:07 am
Yep,

I'm at a computer 12+ hours a day. I'm a programmer so not using a mouse that much but it still gets a fair amount of use.

petejh

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#12 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:49:26 am
Vertical mouse / ergonomic keyboard might be worth a try? If you can bear the extortinate prices. I'm considering trying these but having trouble finding something with a sensible price tag. I do a fair amount of time on the computer at work, using a mouse. At the moment I'm trying out using my left arm to use the mouse, to see if it alleviates the symptoms in my right elbow.

mctrials23

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#13 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 11:55:02 am
I did try using my left hand for the mouse but I was too cack handed to continue. Apparently the microsoft sculpt is the best ergonomic keyboard about at the moment.

From looking at the position my hands take when I am typing, I think a lot of the issue could be that I am resting my wrists on the desk which leads to an extension of the wrist and that seems to aggravate the feeling.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 12:28:12 pm by mctrials23 »

Paul B

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#14 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 04:13:01 pm
Vertical mouse / ergonomic keyboard might be worth a try? If you can bear the extortinate prices.

Work bought me an Evoluent 3 Mouse and it has helped a lot with my elbow issues.  Having just looked the prices are ridiculous! Lots of the CAD guys at work have ball-type mouses (trackball?).

I now have a constant tightness in my back, but that's a different niggle (almost certainly posture related).

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#15 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 04:28:08 pm
I think it's exceptionally rare for climbing to cause tennis elbow, but very common for it to cause golfers.  Computer is #1 issues for Tennis elbow.  If it is from climbing, I think it's generally from pinches and torquing the wrist to engage the thumb more. 

tresor

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#16 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 05:42:17 pm
Getting old and fragile I had both golfers and tennis elbow in the right arm the last years and golfers in the left. While I had symptoms I experienced problems with my forearms going numb or as we say in Swedish: fell asleep. I took this as a sign that the circulation wasn't working as it should.

//Tresor


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#17 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 06:54:09 pm
Apparently the microsoft sculpt is the best ergonomic keyboard about at the moment.

Looks like a parred down version of the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard 4000.  I've used one of these for > 8 years and they are brilliant (although most who try to use my computer disagree).

From looking at the position my hands take when I am typing, I think a lot of the issue could be that I am resting my wrists on the desk which leads to an extension of the wrist and that seems to aggravate the feeling.

Its recommended to have your wrists elevated whilst typing (have a search), but with this type of ergonomic keyboard its the heel of your hand that rests on the padding in front of the keyboard and if you use the additional stands for the front of the keyboard its about spot on for where your hands would otherwise be floating.

I find the problem with non-ergonomic keyboards (and laptops) is that my (and almost all adults) shoulders are wider than the width of the keyboard.  If you touch type and use the base keys then on a non-ergonomic keyboard I find I have to rotate my hands to bring the base of the thumbs closer to each other so that my fingers are over the base keys.  The split design of these keyboards prevents that and the line of my fingers is perpendicular to the bones in my forearm as a consequence.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 07:05:14 pm by slackline »

tomtom

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#18 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 07:12:36 pm
I find the long key travel on most PC keyboards makes my wrists ache. I'm fine on island style laptop keyboards - so just got an equivalent desktop one and it's much better. An apple one would probably work great too. I also swap mouse left and right hand repeatedly when either aches.

Programming can lead to some odd key presses as your often using brackets (square and regular) and other 'odd' symbols that normal typists rarely use - so are further away from the centre etc..

chris j

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#19 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 11, 2015, 08:10:55 pm
Chris - did you have any impingment symptoms/soreness in the shoulder area itself or nearby in the uppe bicep? For etc. weakness at a small point in range of motion when lifting the arm? or did your shoulder feel fine?

Mine was the fairly typical hunched forward posture from too much desk time (& weights & climbing...). Reduced range of motion rotating arms outwards or raising arms forwards above my head (basically because the top of the arm wasn't centered in the joint before starting the movement). Tightness & some inflammation in the front of the shoulder, nothing in the upper bicep.

chris j

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#20 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 12, 2015, 07:14:46 am
Adding to the last - the main way I can tell if I'm not holding my shoulders in a good position is that something in the front moves/clicks quite painfully as I raise my hand above my head.

TheTwig

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#21 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 13, 2015, 01:09:34 pm
Really simple question guys. I'm sure loads of you have had tennis elbow over the years but I was wondering if you ever found that it reduced the blood supply to the affected forearm / hand.

I have been struggling with it for the past year on and off. I'm an idiot and when its find I tend to ease up / stop the rehab and then it suddenly takes a nosedive and I'm pissed off and regretting my laziness.

Sometimes if I warm up perfectly its mostly alright and doesn't affect my session but I'm not entirely sure what this perfect warm up is or I would do it every time. If I don't manage this, I have issues with the arm getting pumped super quickly and staying pumped for way longer than it should do and never really recovering.

Same as you, if I ever skip my rehab on rest days etc it comes back with a vengeance, though since starting my Super Duper Incredible Tennis Elbow Recovery Program (TM) I've had lots of improvement. I noticed it takes my 'worse' arm longer to warm up than the healthier one, though once I'm warmed up I notice very little pain. Tennis Elbow is a bit of a bastard in my experience because once you are properly warmed up the pain goes away nearly completely and I only notice how much damage I'm doing after the session  :'(

mctrials23

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#22 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 13, 2015, 01:14:22 pm
I noticed it takes my 'worse' arm longer to warm up than the healthier one, though once I'm warmed up I notice very little pain. Tennis Elbow is a bit of a bastard in my experience because once you are properly warmed up the pain goes away nearly completely and I only notice how much damage I'm doing after the session  :'(

Its odd because I don't get any "pain" with the elbow, its just a dull ache in a particular spot on the forearm and the feeling of fatigue that comes with it. Even after a session it doesn't hurt. If anything its usually better after a session. As you say, warming it up takes longer than the healthy side though.

TheTwig

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#23 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 13, 2015, 01:18:14 pm

Its odd because I don't get any "pain" with the elbow, its just a dull ache in a particular spot on the forearm and the feeling of fatigue that comes with it. Even after a session it doesn't hurt. If anything its usually better after a session. As you say, warming it up takes longer than the healthy side though.

I would kill to have no pain! Mine started off as the dull ache and it got ignored for long enough to progress to serious pain during training seasons. The fatigue thing is even worse though, the complete lack of power can be seriously depressing

mctrials23

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#24 Re: Tennis elbow reduced bloodflow
March 13, 2015, 01:35:51 pm
I would kill to have no pain! Mine started off as the dull ache and it got ignored for long enough to progress to serious pain during training seasons. The fatigue thing is even worse though, the complete lack of power can be seriously depressing

I've always rehabbed it just enough to keep it at the dull ache stage I think. I'm going to try and make sure that I properly heal it now hopefully.

I've just ordered an ergonomic keyboard to help with it and bought one of those theraband flexbars to rehab it properly. I always found the dumbell negatives a bit of an effort and not very comfortable on my wrist.

 

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