[StillTryingForTheTop]

Don't think this has been covered on here before, but hard to search on my phone via tapatalk

Trying to get back in to training, and want to start fingerboarding again, had one session last Saturday and I am in an odd situation where my fingers are not the weakness when fingerboarding

During the workout, on the smaller holds, I fall off before my fingers fail, I believe based on the aches the following day or two that my back and chest are struggling to stabilise my body in order to stay on the medium crimps (Beastmaker 1000). I am fine on the jugs / deep crimps

My question is, will I make faster progress if I train my back / chest first, and if so what should I do?

Or, should I continue to fingerboard as I do and my finger strength will improve once my stability does?

With regards to my current training plan on the fingerboard, I do repeaters, 6 reps of 7sec on, 3sec off with a 2 minute break. I do 3 sets on the jugs, then 1 set on the deep crimps as a warm up, then drop to the medium crimps for the workout, aiming to do 6 sets on those. Initially I can hang them no problem but it goes down hill rapidly and as I say I think it is my stability that is holding me back more than my fingers.

Cheers
Gary

[tomtom]

When I get back into FBing I find its my biceps/triceps - and the muscles over the top of my shoulder (forgotten name) that ache most/give up first.. this is NOT straight arming stuff..

Core also takes a pounding to start with.. If its too much to continue - try having one hand in the big slot the other on the crimp and alternate etc..

[Nibile]

Are the crimps you struggle on a bit rounded or slopey?
If they are, and you struggle on them but are fine on the incut ones, maybe it's because the rounded edge requires extra squeezing with arms, shoulders and lats to stay on. If you stick at it, you'll have overall progress.
I strongly advise not to train chest and shoulders before.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Just to clarify, by before I don't mean before fingerboarding on the same work out, I was wondering if I would see faster progress spending say a month training chest/shoulders etc in some way, and then focusing on finger strength.
It sounds like just to stick with the routine as is though, and build up the difficulty more steadily by using alternate hands on different grips
EDIT: Yes, the beastmaker crimps are quite rounded / slopey

[rodma]

Can we be clear about a couple of basics here.

if you are fine holding the larger holds, without your fingers camming against the sides of the hold in any way, then it is your fingers that are the weakness, not your chest/back, otherwise these would be holding you back on the bigger holds as well.

years ago i used to think i had strong fingers, since i was good at fingery routes/problems and could hang off smallish holds two-handed. i could not hand one-armed from even a reasonably small hold without doing a weird rotation failure nose dive descent back onto the mats, but could do about 3 one-armers on a jug. i aslo thought i was lacking somewhere other than my fingers, even though i patently wasn't.

with two hands on, it is very easy to cheat by nestling, or camming, or whatever, unless your pecs are tired/weak.

fingers, fingers, fingers, train em and don't believe that you are strong enough to hold something smaller than you actually can if the evidence is pointing the opposite way.

[kelvin]

Can we be clear about a couple of basics here.

if you are fine holding the larger holds, without your fingers camming against the sides of the hold in any way, then it is your fingers that are the weakness, not your chest/back, otherwise these would be holding you back on the bigger holds as well.

years ago i used to think i had strong fingers, since i was good at fingery routes/problems and could hang off smallish holds two-handed. i could not hand one-armed from even a reasonably small hold without doing a weird rotation failure nose dive descent back onto the mats, but could do about 3 one-armers on a jug. i aslo thought i was lacking somewhere other than my fingers, even though i patently wasn't.

with two hands on, it is very easy to cheat by nestling, or camming, or whatever, unless your pecs are tired/weak.

Weird rotation nose dive descent... someone convinced me this year that I should be able to hang the medium campus rail one armed because I can do two armed mono pull ups. Tried. Failed. Blamed the weird rotation thing being due to weak shoulders. In hindsight, it's down to my fingers - I can hang one armed on a jug.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Maybe it is my fingers, all I know is that as I tire during the work out it is my shoulders that drop and post work out it is my chest and back that ache, hands / forearms are fine.

I think the issue is the extra work my core needs to do to keep me stable under the smaller holds, you can't be as sloppy as you can on the jugs

Either way, seems the advice is just to continue fingerboarding for this session

Can we be clear about a couple of basics here.

if you are fine holding the larger holds, without your fingers camming against the sides of the hold in any way, then it is your fingers that are the weakness, not your chest/back, otherwise these would be holding you back on the bigger holds as well.

years ago i used to think i had strong fingers, since i was good at fingery routes/problems and could hang off smallish holds two-handed. i could not hand one-armed from even a reasonably small hold without doing a weird rotation failure nose dive descent back onto the mats, but could do about 3 one-armers on a jug. i aslo thought i was lacking somewhere other than my fingers, even though i patently wasn't.

with two hands on, it is very easy to cheat by nestling, or camming, or whatever, unless your pecs are tired/weak.

fingers, fingers, fingers, train em and don't believe that you are strong enough to hold something smaller than you actually can if the evidence is pointing the opposite way.

[blamo]

With regards to my current training plan on the fingerboard, I do repeaters, 6 reps of 7sec on, 3sec off with a 2 minute break. I do 3 sets on the jugs, then 1 set on the deep crimps as a warm up, then drop to the medium crimps for the workout, aiming to do 6 sets on those. Initially I can hang them no problem but it goes down hill rapidly and as I say I think it is my stability that is holding me back more than my fingers.

Just to be clear you do 4 sets of repeater hangs to warm up.  After this you do 6 sets of repeater hangs on the SAME hard for you grip?  Are you failing entirely on sets or just the last reps in a given set?

Would you have the same difficulty if, after your warm-up, you did 2 sets of repeater hangs per grip on 3 different grips?

[tomtom]

Jugs and deep crimps are different holds on the BM1K..

[a dense loner]

It's not as easy as it's just fingers kelvin, anyone can hang one-armed on a jug, not just climbers, anyone. I suppose I'll have to put the useful caveats of people who aren't dead or in a coma yet. This is one of the reasons I barracked Pete about hanging one-armed straight on  doing this is nearly infinitely harder than "just" hanging one-armed underneath. The finger strength hasn't changed, all the muscles, fibres etc are just being worked in a different way.
Yes, I'd continue to FB Gary. You'll just improve. It'll be a good feeling when your chest/back are no longer the weak link 
The biggest thing I'm finding with this forum now is as soon as one person suggests something two people are bringing out studies to shoot it down. Basically you can't go too far wrong with actually not listening to what most people say and just do something.
Not just to do with climbing either!

[rodma]

but, lee, if you can lock off face on on a jug and can't on a wee hud and blame your shoulders, then you've been assuming the wrong weak link, no one was talking about hanging straight armed with no shoulder involvement.

anyhoo, just train, train, train 

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Warm up is jugs x3, with each set I am moving forward on the hold so using less / increasing intensity, deep crimp is up to second finger joint. After this I switch to the middle depth crimp, which is just less than my first finger joint.
As the sets go on, I struggle to hold the crimp for the full 7 seconds, lasting longer on the first rep and then switching back to the deep crimps for the remainder of the set.
Previously I was mixing grips, 3 sets of crimps, followed by 3 open hand, followed by 2 slopers, but crimping has been identified as a weakness of mine as I open hand everything when climbing so been advised to train crimps for a while

[blamo]

It sounds like you might be having a hard time dialing in the correct intensity.  Your first hang in a set might be too hard and then you switch grips to something that might be too easy.  If you are not already, you might consider adding or removing weight.  The RCTM has a fairly detailed discussion on repeaters.  You could also just get the info from their blogs:

http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2012/08/30/hangboard-faq-0-what-is-a-basic-hangboard-routine/

Good luck with it!

anyhoo, just train, train, train 

  Don't get too caught up in the details.

[Fultonius]

Gary,

What kind of level are you at?

By the sounds of things you're doing your repeaters 2 handed, yes?

If so, I think you (if it's feasible) spend all your time climbing and don't bother with fingerboarding for now.

[spam]

Despite finger boarding being touted as a way of isolating finger strength, there are plenty of times where I have failed on a repeater set not because I can't hold on anymore but because I can't hold my scapulae/shoulders down.  This is the worst for me on half crimps and crimps, and not quite as bad open-handed.  E.g. I have no problem with scapular retraction using 2-finger pockets, even if the same weight is being used as the 1/2 crimp. 

  I think that continuing to hang when your shoulders pull up is asking for injury.  Not sure if this is the same issue you are having.  I cannot relate to chest strength being an issue, and it is not clear to me what you are doing to engage your chest; are you partly locked off and squeezing your arms together?

Some weird logic in these posts...  People suggesting that if you can hang 1 armed off a jug then shoulder strength isn't the issue... I have no idea of the physiology of why pull strength is affected by hold size, but if you don't believe it try rock climbing sometime.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Cheers

It sounds like you might be having a hard time dialing in the correct intensity.  Your first hang in a set might be too hard and then you switch grips to something that might be too easy.  If you are not already, you might consider adding or removing weight.  The RCTM has a fairly detailed discussion on repeaters.  You could also just get the info from their blogs:

http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2012/08/30/hangboard-faq-0-what-is-a-basic-hangboard-routine/

Good luck with it!

anyhoo, just train, train, train 

  Don't get too caught up in the details.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Yes, I am doing the hangs 2 handed

My level, although hard to quantify exactly as I mainly climb indoors, is sport 6c+ (desperately trying to get 7a) and v3/4 bouldering although have got the odd v5 and one v6

I agree, should be climbing more but (and for the same reason I have now sold the sports car and am buying a golf), family life means my actual climbing time is limited to two sessions a week, on a Saturday morning when my lad sleeps I can sneak in a quick fingerboard session but unfortunately don't have time for much else

Gary,

What kind of level are you at?

By the sounds of things you're doing your repeaters 2 handed, yes?

If so, I think you (if it's feasible) spend all your time climbing and don't bother with fingerboarding for now.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Sounds like you are similar to me,

Not sure myself re my chest, I think I am just tensing everything in order to stop myself swinging about under the holds

I cannot relate to chest strength being an issue, and it is not clear to me what you are doing to engage your chest; are you partly locked off and squeezing your arms together?

[kelvin]

Not sure myself re my chest, I think I am just tensing everything in order to stop myself swinging about under the holds

Are you actually hanging when you fingerboard Gary? Or locking off at 90deg or something? Might have something to do with it?

Anyways - the new routes are all soft... no excuse not to do 7a now ;-)

[fried]

With regards to my current training plan on the fingerboard, I do repeaters, 6 reps of 7sec on, 3sec off with a 2 minute break. I do 3 sets on the jugs, then 1 set on the deep crimps as a warm up, then drop to the medium crimps for the workout, aiming to do 6 sets on those. Initially I can hang them no problem but it goes down hill rapidly and as I say I think it is my stability that is holding me back more than my fingers.

Just to be clear you do 4 sets of repeater hangs to warm up.  After this you do 6 sets of repeater hangs on the SAME hard for you grip?  Are you failing entirely on sets or just the last reps in a given set?

Would you have the same difficulty if, after your warm-up, you did 2 sets of repeater hangs per grip on 3 different grips?

I'm probably bouldering about the same level as you, but unless our terminologies are completely different I'm confused. You do 10 sets of 6 hangs? I do 2 sets of 6 hangs and this takes about 40/45 mins, I can't believe you spend 4h BMing.

I'm certainly not criticising your routine, just interested from the perspective of someone at the samish level.

I do 2 sets of 6 hangs (6 reps x 6secs on/ 3 off) I start with 1 hang jug, 1 hang 4 finger deep, 1 hang front 3 deep, 2 hangs 4 finger deep, 1 hang jugs. I usually just fail on the second set and have to resort to jugs to finish. You seem to do a lot of easy sets, it could well be me misunderstanding BMing completely though.

[rodma]

Some weird logic in these posts...  People suggesting that if you can hang 1 armed off a jug then shoulder strength isn't the issue... I have no idea of the physiology of why pull strength is affected by hold size, but if you don't believe it try rock climbing sometime.

I have given you the answer, it's  a lack of finger strength 

no weird logic from me, just many people's brains (or egos) aren't ready to accept that their fingerstrength is lacking, even though they have tested it by trying to lock off and have failed. the reason you lower down is to prevent yourself from slipping off, you tend not to carry on applying the power as the grip is failing, instead you back off, it's the same with your feet on.

i have a similar problem whereby i used to be able to flick around a lot whilst campussing on small edges, but now i have to be more static. simple answer, my finger strength has dropped off over the years and i can't apply as much power, so have to "sneak" my way up. don't get me wrong, i can still one arm a small rung and it is a better, fuller one-armer than years ago, but being able to flick/cheat/kip a one-armer demonstrates greater finger strength, than being able to do it slow and sloth-like

[kelvin]

It's not as easy as it's just fingers kelvin, anyone can hang one-armed on a jug, not just climbers, anyone. 

  As an aside, this took me almost 18 months to achieve from when I first started climbing - probably why I'm shit at climbing (totally irrelevant to this thread).

This is the best advice.

and just do something.

[Fultonius]

Yes, I am doing the hangs 2 handed

My level, although hard to quantify exactly as I mainly climb indoors, is sport 6c+ (desperately trying to get 7a) and v3/4 bouldering although have got the odd v5 and one v6

I agree, should be climbing more but (and for the same reason I have now sold the sports car and am buying a golf), family life means my actual climbing time is limited to two sessions a week, on a Saturday morning when my lad sleeps I can sneak in a quick fingerboard session but unfortunately don't have time for much else

Gary,

What kind of level are you at?

By the sounds of things you're doing your repeaters 2 handed, yes?

If so, I think you (if it's feasible) spend all your time climbing and don't bother with fingerboarding for now.

Fair enough - if you're limited on "climbing time" then fingerboard away!  Warming us is really difficult on a fingerboard - make it really easy for a while (feet on a chair, pulley assistance etc.).

[StillTryingForTheTop]

I would say I hang with maybe a 10 or 20 degree bend in my arms, I just pull up enough to engage my arms / shoulders / back etc and try and keep the rest of my core solid, can show you next time we are both at the Pin

Ps, don't want an easy 7a, want a Pinnacle 7a

Not sure myself re my chest, I think I am just tensing everything in order to stop myself swinging about under the holds

Are you actually hanging when you fingerboard Gary? Or locking off at 90deg or something? Might have something to do with it?

Anyways - the new routes are all soft... no excuse not to do 7a now ;-)

[StillTryingForTheTop]

With regards to my current training plan on the fingerboard, I do repeaters, 6 reps of 7sec on, 3sec off with a 2 minute break. I do 3 sets on the jugs, then 1 set on the deep crimps as a warm up, then drop to the medium crimps for the workout, aiming to do 6 sets on those. Initially I can hang them no problem but it goes down hill rapidly and as I say I think it is my stability that is holding me back more than my fingers.

Just to be clear you do 4 sets of repeater hangs to warm up.  After this you do 6 sets of repeater hangs on the SAME hard for you grip?  Are you failing entirely on sets or just the last reps in a given set?

Would you have the same difficulty if, after your warm-up, you did 2 sets of repeater hangs per grip on 3 different grips?

I'm probably bouldering about the same level as you, but unless our terminologies are completely different I'm confused. You do 10 sets of 6 hangs? I do 2 sets of 6 hangs and this takes about 40/45 mins, I can't believe you spend 4h BMing.

I'm certainly not criticising your routine, just interested from the perspective of someone at the samish level.

I do 2 sets of 6 hangs (6 reps x 6secs on/ 3 off) I start with 1 hang jug, 1 hang 4 finger deep, 1 hang front 3 deep, 2 hangs 4 finger deep, 1 hang jugs. I usually just fail on the second set and have to resort to jugs to finish. You seem to do a lot of easy sets, it could well be me misunderstanding BMing completely though.

Confusing terminology on my part probably, I do 10 sets. Each set is of 6 hangs, each hang is 7sec on, 3 sec off, so takes 1 minute. 2 minute rest between, total workout time of 30 minute on this program.

[Sasquatch]

Carry on as is.  If your core/shoulders/pecs are weak, then it'll be good for them to get stronger, and youll still see finger benefit.  If your fingers are actually the weak point(as Rodma suggests), then you're training the right thing. Either way given the lack of time to actually climb, carry on FBing. 

[mctrials23]

Doesn't sound like you are doing anything weird and at the level you are bouldering I wouldn't worry too much about what is holding you back. Keeping doing what you are doing and whatever is weak will improve.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Thanks all Will just keep doing what I am doing and review again in a few months

[spam]

Some weird logic in these posts...  People suggesting that if you can hang 1 armed off a jug then shoulder strength isn't the issue... I have no idea of the physiology of why pull strength is affected by hold size, but if you don't believe it try rock climbing sometime.

I have given you the answer, it's  a lack of finger strength 

no weird logic from me, just many people's brains (or egos) aren't ready to accept that their fingerstrength is lacking, even though they have tested it by trying to lock off and have failed. the reason you lower down is to prevent yourself from slipping off, you tend not to carry on applying the power as the grip is failing, instead you back off, it's the same with your feet on.

I don't think it is just fingers.  I do repeaters with added/removed weight, similar to the OP, so that my fingers always fail within the last set of 6x(7s on/3 off);  so any difference in grip strength should be evened out this way. On open 3 fingers I have no trouble keeping my scapula retracted and shoulders down for all 6 sets, even though I have added weight.  On 3 finger 1/2 crimp I am fighting (and failing) to keep my shoulders from being pulled up so high that they feel like they are going to choke me out after only 30 seconds, even though I have weight removed.  The fingers don't fail until the minute is up, and if I feel like abusing my shoulders I can finish the set. I don't have the same problem doing monos with weight removed, even though they are my weakest grip by weight. Make sense?

[Sasquatch]

Fingerboarding should always be done with good form.  If you can't keep your shoulders back, then you've already failed and should stop.  You're asking for a shoulder injury at that point.  Cut the ego out, and ALWAYS maintain form.  As you said, it's not the shoulder strength, so why are the shoulders coming up? it's so that you can change the pulling function to compensate for your fingers not being strong enough.    It is the finger strength.

[jwi]

It is the finger strength.

+1

[a dense loner]

No it's not. Dave graham has got more or less the strongest fingers out there, I'd pay good money to see him hang one armed face on on a crimp

[Sasquatch]

Failure to maintain shoulder/scapula control on a two arm hang is not the same as one a 1-arm hang. 

If you can easily control the shoulder/scapula retraction on a similar weight/hold open handed, and you're failing to maintain shoulder/scapula control on a two arm 1/2 crimp hang, it's because you're on a hold smaller than what you should be on, or at a heavier weight. Drop the intensity, regain the shoulder control, then build back up while maintaining form.   

Dense, one armed hangs are different, and everyone here is talking about 2 arm hangs at the moment. 

[kelvin]

To be fair to Dense, some of us were talking about one armers earlier...

[Nibile]

Failure to maintain shoulder/scapula control on a two arm hang is not the same as one a 1-arm hang. 

Dense, one armed hangs are different, and everyone here is talking about 2 arm hangs at the moment.

Jesuschrist I was about to have a nervous breakdown at the thought that all my one armed dead hangs were cheating because of the shoulder - and bicep - engagement.
Be sure to check your words guys, there's a sensible audience out here.

[a dense loner]

Oh shit, I thought we were on one-arms. I retract my statement then Sasquatch 

[fried]

Be sure to check your words guys, there's a sensible audience out here.

You write in English much better than I do, so I'm only commenting because you once asked for mistakes in your writing to be pointed out, unless I dreamt it. Also it's the second time I've noticed it; sensible is a faux amis in French, so I imagine it's the same in Italian, the word you need is 'Sensitive', again I'm only mentioning this as it might be helpful as you need to write inportant stuff in English.

[Nibile]

Read. My. Mind.
Was thinking about it seconds after pressing Enter, then got back to work and forgot it. The right word was escaping me though.
Thanks for the reminder, yes, I asked to be corrected in my English errors, and I asked that ages ago, so congrats to your memory as well, I appreciate it.
 

[Nibile]

it might be helpful as you need to write inportant stuff in English.

Thanks again Fried, but I think you could be overestimate my needs... The most important things I write in English sound like "10 secs on small rung with X kg YYFY" on my fake 8a account.
 

[spam]

OK, lots of disagreement with what I posted.  Since it is not off topic to the OP, I'd love to learn something here. 

Firstly, I fully agree with all the comments regarding keeping form and dropping the weight if you can't. However, I don't understand why the majority feel that it has to be finger weakness that is causing the failure to keep the scapula retracted in certain grip positions. 

 I regularly fail on 3 finger half-crimps because I can't keep the shoulders down.  My fingers aren't failing.   My fingers can keep going for another 3x(7s/3s) if I am willing to sacrifice my shoulders (I don't... well maybe I did once or twice).

I've also experienced the opposite situation, usually on monos or shallow pockets, where my finger(s) open and fail, but my scapulae remained retracted.  So it doesn't feel like shoulder retraction is linked to grip the way you are suggesting.

I have insanely sore back muscles between my scapulae from my recent finger board workouts that seem like excellent anecdotal evidence to support my opinion that the hang board does not isolate the forearm muscles, and that shoulder retraction can be a point of failure.  Holding shoulder retraction for 6x(7s/3s) off of jugs is easy, so presumably shoulder retraction must be harder off of certain grip positions?

BTW, I am a weak old man, but I have been hang-boarding a while. I am still inclined, to believe that different grip positions render holding scapular retraction more difficult.  Can anyone explain why this contention is wrong, and it can only ever be fingers?

[rodma]

Monos are easy to drag the sides of rather than pulling straight down

[Sasquatch]

I can maintain shoulder/scapula stability whilst adding 50kgs on an 18mm edge.  If I go to a 14mm edge, I start to lose the form.  Why?  Prehension is exactly the same, so the only change is in edge size.  It's obviously finger strength.  I can't speak to your situation, as I'm not there to see.  Changing prehensions changes the angle of pull on your wrists/elbows/shoulders so each prehension changes the engagement of the shoulder just a little bit, so comparing across prehensions is difficult.   

There's little doubt that FBing is a full body workout, enaging everything but the legs. 

Everything I know about FBing (both read and experienced) indicates you should be maintaining good scapula/shoulder control throughout the hang - either 1 armed or 2 armed.  When I let my ego take charge, I continue adding weight, which I can hang, but I have to drop the shoulders at the end to finish the hangs.  This has led to minor shoulder impingement issues both times.   I'm nearly 100% certain it's not a shoulder scapula weakness, rather that I'm trying to hang a hold that my fingers can't do while maintaining form. 

I've not done very much 1-arm FB training, so I can't speak to it as well.  I can't do a 1-arm pullup (yet), and can barely manage a 1-arm lockoff.  As such, I find it very difficult to maintain what I would consider good form while trying 1-arm hangs, hence no 1-arm FBing for me yet.  I'm working 1-arm pull strength now, and hoping to move into 1-arm FBing this summer or next fall.   

For me, I do find that my finger strength has been the limiter every time for 2-arm hangs. (although if I decided I wanted to two arm hang on a jug with 80kgs, then maybe it would be my shoulders/pull muscles)

Nibs, I've always uinderstood that you want bicep/shoulder/ull engagement, so I think your one-arms are 100% legit

[abarro81]

I regularly fail on 3 finger half-crimps because I can't keep the shoulders down.  My fingers aren't failing. 

I don't really understand what you guys mean about shoulders and scapula and all that, but isn't this along the lines of the erroneous logic that 'my elbows go up to the sky when I'm pumped so it must not be my finger flexors that are pumped'?

[Sasquatch]

I regularly fail on 3 finger half-crimps because I can't keep the shoulders down.  My fingers aren't failing. 

I don't really understand what you guys mean about shoulders and scapula and all that, but isn't this along the lines of the erroneous logic that 'my elbows go up to the sky when I'm pumped so it must not be my finger flexors that are pumped'?

Exactly

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Fingers are not always the limiting factor though, for example I can't hang the 45s on the BM2K, however if some puts a single finger in my back and pushes my body under the holds more, providing no upwards force at all, I can. I have seen this demonstrated on several people, so for me on 45s it is definitely core not finger strength.

[tommy_k]

... on 45s it is definitely core not finger strength.

Except, it isn't.

Sorry 

The model you are picturing is physically speaking wrong on several levels.
The two most important ones are, that first of all any horizontal force applied to your body while you are hanging on a partially vertical hold, does increase the friction and therefore makes it easier for you (simulating stronger fingers).
Take a book and hold it against a wall. If you let go it drops. If you provide only horizontal pressure with one finger, it stays on the wall - without getting a stronger core or fingers itself

The more important one though, is that the 45°s are only 45 in relation to dead vertical.
By having someone push you, you are basically changing your own alignment. Think of your body as a straight line with your hands a fulcrum. By having someone push you you are changing your own alignment from 0° to -10° for example. This makes the 45°s in relation to your body 45°-10°=35°.
And 35 require less fingerstrength than 45 as we all know...

So your core has - at least in this regard - nothing to do with you being able to hold the slopers or not, it's your fingers 

The good news is, now you know what to train 

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Makes sense