[Luke Owens]

As far back as I can remember as a climber I've had a very weak lower back. I'm not too sure why, but It's probably due to sitting at a desk all day. I feel I've got fairly decent strength in other aspects of my core possibly from training before I climbed, on non-steep stuff core never seems to be the issue. Lately on some of the harder problems I've tried it always seems to be a core issue stopping me from doing moves.

Because of this I've always favored non-steep problems/routes and climbing indoors is something I only do if there really is no other option. Indoors I fall off all the roof problems and Indoors and out I find it very very difficult/impossible to "pull with the feet".

I've tried over the last year or possibly longer to sort this weakness out but I think I'm just possibly giving up to easily or missing something.

A couple of questions:

How long does it take to actually improve lower back strength and actually notice a difference? I know what exercises I have to do to improve but I just loose interest after a couple of weeks of no improvement.

Is there something else I'm possibly not noticing is wrong?

For example (and to show you how weak I am); I try to do leg raises on a bar as often as I can, with knees bent It's fine but when trying to do L raises as soon as I begin to reach an "L" shape I just can't get any further or have to start bending my knees.

Also, I tried for a period at the beginning of last year to just climb at Pantymwyn (steep stuff) a lot, with some grim determination I managed after many sessions to do a couple of the problems but I don't feel like I actually improved as far as my lower back strength is concerned. In the first few moves in the video below you can see me sagging a hell of a lot. I find these moves hard for this reason (Everyone else keeps there hips really high and tucked in and doesn't find this the crux)



I've been back there recently and I actually can't repeat the problems due to just losing the little tension I have. It's possibly worth mentioning I have really weak hip flexors too, which when I stretch actually hurt a bit. I've tried stretching loads but nothing seems to improve this either, not sure if it's in anyway connected.

Any thoughts, idea's or just tell me to carry on doing the same thing would be appreciated.

Cheers

[tomtom]

I found side planks made a surprising difference - planks etc... helped, but I seemed to have a real weakness laterally that these worked really well.. also 'supermans' work my lower back (at the back not the front) for some balance.

But I am fairly crocked at the moment :D

[mctrials23]

I don't know if its just because you are saying that you have a weak lower back but it looks like you are dragging your legs up a lot of that problem.

I have lower back issue periodically but its fine 95% of the time. I'm quite tall with reasonably heavy legs so l-sits and leg raises are quite stressful on my lower back but I don't struggle with them that much. You don't look very tall or heavy in the lower body so I would suggest that its a mobility issue rather than a weakness problem as leg raises are not very hard if you are reasonably strong.

The lower back can be impaired through tight hamstrings, glutes and other imbalances in that area of the body so perhaps try to use a foam roller on that whole area. Lately I have been using a tennis ball to work out knots in my glutes as well as foam rollering my IT band and all other areas of my upper thighs and it seems to be helping.

[chris j]

How long does it take to actually improve lower back strength and actually notice a difference? I know what exercises I have to do to improve but I just loose interest after a couple of weeks of no improvement.

Think of improving your back as something to incorporate into the rest of your life rather than something to fix in just a few weeks...

[Luke Owens]

The lower back can be impaired through tight hamstrings, glutes and other imbalances in that area of the body so perhaps try to use a foam roller on that whole area. Lately I have been using a tennis ball to work out knots in my glutes as well as foam rollering my IT band and all other areas of my upper thighs and it seems to be helping.

Cheers, I think this is worth exploring as my glutes, lower back and hamstrings always ache and feel tight after climbing. Flexability wise I'm pretty strange as I've always been able to do things without trying like touch my head to my knees when stood up and put both my legs behind my head seperately (Can't say I do this often...). But if I try and do something that opens my hips like the frog stretch I can't get anywhere with it and I'm in agony...!

I found side planks made a surprising difference - planks etc... helped, but I seemed to have a real weakness laterally that these worked really well.. also 'supermans' work my lower back (at the back not the front) for some balance.

But I am fairly crocked at the moment :D

Cheers Tomtom, I've tried all of these but again I think i'm just not sticking with them long enough for them to have a lasting effect.

[tomtom]

I wouldnt go nuts on the planks - I used to do 45 secs *maybe a min* on the front, then the same for either side straight after. Rest for a couple of min and do again... I don't really see the point of doing much longer than that - as for bouldering do you ever need more than a min or so? *apart from me on Weedkiller obviously!

[mctrials23]

Cheers, I think this is worth exploring as my glutes, lower back and hamstrings always ache and feel tight after climbing. Flexability wise I'm pretty strange as I've always been able to do things without trying like touch my head to my knees when stood up and put both my legs behind my head seperately (Can't say I do this often...). But if I try and do something that opens my hips like the frog stretch I can't get anywhere with it and I'm in agony...!

I am fairly similar. I am quite flexible in the standard ways but in a number of climbing specific ones I am quite poor. The more I read about hip flexibility issues the more keen I am to sort them out as it seems like a pretty vital component of climbing hard boulders once you get to a certain grade.

I would give Nibiles core stuff a go as well. The stuff where you get a hand and a foot as far away from each other as possible on an overhanging board and try to maintain the tension between them. I have found these to be good for the core and they are about as climbing specific as you can get.

[Stubbs]

Can you touch your toes with locked out knees? The l sit thing sounds like it could be a tight hamstring/glutes/psoas thing as noted above.

[Luke Owens]

Can you touch your toes with locked out knees? The l sit thing sounds like it could be a tight hamstring/glutes/psoas thing as noted above.

Yeah I can, with not much difficulty. Which has got me thinking it's pretty strange I can do this but L hangs are so difficult, you'd think this would mean I'd be able to bring my feet up to the bar. But I'm guessing different things are at play in both scenarios?

[chris j]

The lower back can be impaired through tight hamstrings, glutes and other imbalances in that area of the body so perhaps try to use a foam roller on that whole area. Lately I have been using a tennis ball to work out knots in my glutes as well as foam rollering my IT band and all other areas of my upper thighs and it seems to be helping.

Tight glutes are what I've fund to set off my back pain most regularly. I've destroyed a few tennis balls working the knots in my glutes out & moved onto solid rubber massage/lacrosse balls, which get further in and should last a bit longer. My comment before was flippant but it is an ongoing work in progress for me as sitting around at work/in the car destroys my glutes about as fast as I can break the knots down so if I lay off for a few days I'll suffer for it.

[mctrials23]

Tight glutes are what I've fund to set off my back pain most regularly. I've destroyed a few tennis balls working the knots in my glutes out & moved onto solid rubber massage/lacrosse balls, which get further in and should last a bit longer. My comment before was flippant but it is an ongoing work in progress for me as sitting around at work/in the car destroys my glutes about as fast as I can break the knots down so if I lay off for a few days I'll suffer for it.

You are far more man than I. I wept like a small child the first time I used even a tennis ball. I dread to think what noises I would make with something less forgiving.

[chris j]

I do it in the privacy of my garage where no-one can hear me whimper...

[Sasquatch]

I've tried over the last year or possibly longer to sort this weakness out but I think I'm just possibly giving up to easily or missing something.

A couple of questions:

How long does it take to actually improve lower back strength and actually notice a difference? I know what exercises I have to do to improve but I just loose interest after a couple of weeks of no improvement.

Is there something else I'm possibly not noticing is wrong?

4-6 weeks of the correct exercises.  Think posterior chain.  You want exercises that target you hamstrings, glutes, and lower back. 

For example (and to show you how weak I am); I try to do leg raises on a bar as often as I can, with knees bent It's fine but when trying to do L raises as soon as I begin to reach an "L" shape I just can't get any further or have to start bending my knees.

Leg raises on a bar are primarily front chain. Quads, Hip flexors, Abs.  If you roll your shoulders back as you get higher, it switches on your lower lats.   From your description of your hamstring flexibilty, I'd guess this is a hip flexor weakness, not a low back issue. 

There's very little training for your lower posterier chain you can do while hanging from a bar(at least I've neveer found any).  Even a front lever is mainly middle back and upwards.

As TT mentioned, Supermans are a good bodyweight exercies to start with.  Can you do this and get only your pelvis to be on the ground and hold for 15-20 seconds?

[duncan]

What Sasquatch said.

This is a great example of why "core" is such a bollocks term. Leg-raises wont stop your middle sagging 'foot on'.

As I’ve said before, I think it is useful to consider two conditions - foot on and trying to keep them on and foot off / controlling swing / getting feet back on.

Abdominal and hip flexor exercises only help with the foot-off strength. Relevant exercises for foot-on strength -  what you seem to be lacking - include anything for the low back and hip extensor muscles. Posterior chain, if you must. Deadlifts and supermen will strengthen the relevant muscles but not very specifically. Single-leg bridging? Probably better is training on a steep board. Look at those vids. of Nibile on his board, holding positions, repositioning his feet and that kind of thing.

[the_dom]

Supermans, deadlifts and kettlebell swings (focus on keeping your lower back straight) will all help. I actually read an article on T-Nation yesterday (http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-apology) that talked to how focused Crossfit was on building lower back strength - hope it helps.

[tomtom]

I stumbled across this yesterday

http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/5-simple-moves-to-eliminate-low-back-pain-for-good/?utm_source=mfp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly20150216&mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRokuarBZKXonjHpfsX56u0pWqW+lMI/0ER3fOvrPUfGjI4DTcRrI+SLDwEYGJlv6SgFSrTFMblm0LgLXhM=

And surprisingly found the 8 point plank really hard (I thought it would be easier than a regular plank!) - and the woodpecker really worked my hamstrings - which I was not expecting..

[Luke Owens]

Cheers guys, plenty of things to work on. The T-Nation article is good, shows how important a strong lower back.

As TT mentioned, Supermans are a good bodyweight exercies to start with.  Can you do this and get only your pelvis to be on the ground and hold for 15-20 seconds?

I tried this last night and I can hold the position staticly for over a minute. I've seen variations where you move your arms and legs too, Aquaman?

So you guys reckon stuff like:

Single Leg Bridge
Superman
Hanging Leg Raises
Deadlifts

I'll try out that eight-point plank later too.

Anymore for the hip flexors?

Should I be looking at high volume, high reps? Daily?

Cheers

[erm, sam]

Think of improving your back as something to incorporate into the rest of your life rather than something to fix in just a few weeks...

I think this is a really important point. I think the lower back particularly is a difficult area to target to get stronger. It is used and abused so widely in your daily life and lots of exersises can be very demanding if you are not used to them or if done with poor form. This means it is very easy to just make it sore and overworked if you are focusing on it.

Also I think rather than jsut having a weak lower back, problems can be from underrequiting hamstrings or what have you so focusing on your "lower back" might not be the solution.

More holistic core excersises might be a good solution rather than blasting out lots of Leg raises.  The swiss ball 10 week workout posted in the core strength thread is a good way to build up a wider core strength in a not destroying way, I think. As an example of how much I think one should take it easy, I have done the first week of the 10 week work out for 3 weeks now before moving on to "week two" in order to ensure I am not going to overwork my back.

Aim for a stronger core in 3-6 months rather than 3-6 weeks to avoid the overdoing it - resting -overdoing it agian cycle that I have spent years in..

[nai]

So you guys reckon stuff like:

Hanging Leg Raises

Only read the last few posts but Saquatch and Duncan are definitely not saying these.  Be very cautious of them, getting into an L sit position is limited more by hamstrings than by weaknesses in your core.

[Luke Owens]

Only read the last few posts but Saquatch and Duncan are definitely not saying these.  Be very cautious of them, getting into an L sit position is limited more by hamstrings than by weaknesses in your core.

Sasquatch reckoned it might of been a hip flexor issue and said that leg raises are primarily front chain which includes hip flexors?

Leg raises on a bar are primarily front chain. Quads, Hip flexors, Abs.  If you roll your shoulders back as you get higher, it switches on your lower lats.   From your description of your hamstring flexibilty, I'd guess this is a hip flexor weakness, not a low back issue. 

The swiss ball 10 week workout posted in the core strength thread is a good way to build up a wider core strength in a not destroying way, I think.

Thanks, I'll check that out. Yeah, I am thinking long term, guess it's natural to want "instant" changes. I'll definetly not just be focusing on the lower back though.

[nai]

I read Sas's post and Duncan's response as saying that Leg Raises won't help you address the problem you have.

Lie flat on your back and raise a leg keeping it straight, locked out at the knee. At what angle does the hamstring start pulling? That's the limit your hamstring will stretch. 

Mine's about 70 degrees and that's why I struggled to do L sits on a bar and it's why I herniated a disk as I pushed on (over)doing them. Getting to 70 used all the muscles the exercise should be targeting but for that last 20 the form goes wrong with an inevitable outcome. Keeping a slight bend in the knee would have helped.

But again, back to Duncan's point that this exercise won't help you address the issue you originally posted about

Sorry if I'm getting a bit evangelical about this point but my recent experience is a very bad one.

[tomtom]

30 degrees left leg, 45 right. It's one of the tests the osteo does every week..

[nai]

Blimey, that's stiff.  I assume that's only since the back issues though?  Hopefully as that resolves it will improve.

[kelvin]

30 degrees left leg, 45 right. It's one of the tests the osteo does every week..

With you there Tom - managing to lift the heel only 8inches off the floor with the left leg at the moment but about 45deg with the right. Purely a hamstring tightness issue in the right leg but the left is down to all the trouble with the medial and the adductor I'm experiencing at the moment. As well as the hammy of course, they've always been an issue. Strong, never had a tear, no lesions in the muscle but silly tight constantly no matter what stretching I do.

Nice find that link above Tom. Cheers.

[tomtom]

Blimey, that's stiff.  I assume that's only since the back issues though?  Hopefully as that resolves it will improve.

Yeah - the left one is due to the back (it was about 10-20 degrees) and the spasming in my glute/piriformis/hamstring area means its really stiff.. Those woodpecker exercises I linked to look so easy - but felt so hard!!

Anyone else tried the 8 point plank? I can normally do a min or so on a regular plank and I was shaking after 20 secs on the 8 point one!

[kelvin]

Anyone else tried the 8 point plank? I can normally do a min or so on a regular plank and I was shaking after 20 secs on the 8 point one!

Report back in a bit - a couple of years back, I'd manage a 8m30sec plank okay but haven't really tried for 18 months or so and that was 3 min. I expect way less now.

I have a strong lower back due to work. Rolling ceilings most days ehlps - get on the DIY Luke!

[nai]

Those 8P planks are surprisingly hard work, was expecting them to be far easier than standard planks

[Luke Owens]

I'll try that Ham stretch test and eight-point plank on my lunch in half an hour and report back.

I have a strong lower back due to work. Rolling ceilings most days ehlps - get on the DIY Luke!

Haha, I must admit when I bought my house last June and re-decorated it all, after 3 weeks of it I was aching all over, especially my back!

[tomtom]

Those 8P planks are surprisingly hard work, was expecting them to be far easier than standard planks

especially if you move your elbows and knees further and further apart!! I quite like them as it feels like they work my back back more than front back (which regular planks do etc..)

[nai]

Do you mean further apart sideways or back to front?

The further forward you slide your elbows in a regular plank the harder it becomes, go far enough and you can get twice the workout in half the time.

[kelvin]

Those 8P planks are surprisingly hard work, was expecting them to be far easier than standard planks

especially if you move your elbows and knees further and further apart!! I quite like them as it feels like they work my back back more than front back (which regular planks do etc..)

Interesting. Started trembling at about 40sec. I managed five minutes and then gave up as I was getting bored, always the issue with planks for me. Felt much, much tougher on the shoulders and upper back for me, compared to a normal plank. I had a rearrange at about 3 minutes, slid my elbows forward to about level with the eyes to make the whole thing harder. The upper back and shoulders really are a weakness for me in climbing but my lower back and abs didn't even feel phased - so as is often the case, I guess much of this is down to what we do for work and how that weakens or strengthens us.

Starting to really feel my upper back back (nice turn of words Tom) now - I'm crap at pullups and I can feel it right in between the shoulder blades, along the spine, dunno, blimey... starting to ache now! 

[kelvin]

Haha, I must admit when I bought my house last June and re-decorated it all, after 3 weeks of it I was aching all over, especially my back!

S'funny - I remember you saying about it on fit/power club at the time and chuckling. Decorating strength is definitely not transferable to climbing, I can vouch for that. Apart from maybe having strong calves due to standing on steps for long periods of time.

[fried]

Very strange, I find I could do the 8P plank almost indefintely, I can't feel any tightness anywhere. I've chacked 3 times, I'm sure I'm doing it O.K. Front planks, on the other-hand I can manage a couple of minutes.

[nai]

Maybe it's me and Tom having weaknesses due to our recent back problems.

In other news, I once read although can't remember where or why, that you shouldn't do planks for more than a minute.  Not sure why you'd want to do it for so long anyway when just moving your elbows forward a few inches makes it so much harder and gets it over with so much quicker and you could do something less boring instead.

[fried]

I damaged my back a couple of years ago in a fall, it'd be nice to think that all my 15min back exercise actually do help.

I agree planks are boring, so thanks for the tip for lessening the pain, I'll give it a go.

[nai]

Oh the pain isn't lessened, if anything it's intensified but the length of time you have to suffer it for is reduced. 

[shark]

Maybe not in direct answer to the OP but I thought it was as good a place to pontificate about my lower back experiences as some of the things I discovered might be useful for others who have a lower back issues with the caveat that my memory isn't great about what I've done over the years or the relative effects.
 
In my teens I had a rapid growth spurt that seems to have had a particular effect on my back that left I number of very noticeable stretch marks. I found that when my back felt uncomfortable I could push the spine back into place with some audible crunching/clicking that gave relief.

A hunched posture was made worse by taking up climbing at 19 and in my mid 20s the problems with putting my back out got worse and my back going into spasm. No doubt it was made worse by having a desk job and I often felt like a broken reed with strong upper body and legs and jelly in the middle. I went to osteopath who remarked that my spine was pronounced S shape with the lower back flexibility meaning I would overuse it for daily actions like picking things up. He also saw that I had sclerosis where my spine twisted over to one side leading to spasm down one side of my back. I think with the manipulation and exercises at the time the sclerosis was corrected. After that I carried on muddling along with occasional visits to the physio and varied stretches.

I was finding long car journetys increasing uncomfortable and often when I started increasing training it was my back that would give out and be the limiting factor.

About 5/6 years ago I made a few more active steps to try and deal with the issue and I cant exactly pinpoint what made the most difference but I can say that now my back is in better shape now than when I was a teenager.

- At Hallamshire Physio the conclusion was that my back wasnt weak per se but was consistently overused so it never got a break. This stemmed from bad movement habits and because my upper back was so stiff and hunched over so for example to stand up straight I used to push my lower back in. The movement habits that I re-learnt was as basic as going from sitting to standing up. Before I used my lower back to initiate this movement whereas better form is to initiate the movement from your glutes and a slight tip of your pelvis. A good exercise I was taught to mobilise the upper back is to imagine a torch is implanted in the centre of your chest then just by mobilising the upper back is to shine the torch up then down then top left of the room, top right, bottom left and bottom right (the order doesn't matter BTW)

- I did some Yoga classes which made me realise how inflexible my shoulders and back are and took away some exercises that I still do to correct this. I also picked up from a exercise that Steph Davis described to bend your upper back over a yoga block to increase the flexibility (or rather decrease the inflexibility) of my upper back and I do this 2/3 times a week to help counteract the hunching from desk work and climbing. I also try to get my outstretched arms to lay out straight on the floor behind my head when lying on my back by using the yoga technique of breathing "into" the tight inhibiting area. Not managed it yet and there seems to be an annoying particular restriction in my left shoulder (maybe from an unknown or forgotten injury)

- I purchased a load of weights in 2008 at a bargain price off ebay and did a couple of months of deadlifting at home. I watched yourtube videos to learn the best form and got close to 2x bodyweight which I felt was adequate before sacking it off. My back felt really great from doing this. IIRC it also gave me the capability to front levers where before my bum would sag down.   
 

[Luke Owens]

All good knowlege here guys, thanks for sharing your experiance Shark. Good to hear you sorted the problem in the end. Goes to show again it's not always obvious what is actually the problem. Do you still have to do exercises/stretches to maintain strength/flexability in the back?

Just been on lunch and tried a few things:

In response to Nai, I tried the hamstring stretch and I can bring both legs to 90 degrees (sepeartaly), then I start to feel the tightness/shaking.

Not sure whether this is good or bad on the flexability scale?

Did some 50kg Deadlifts, didn't want to do anything too heavy to start with and could feel it hitting the right places.

Did a bunch of supermans, again feels like it's hitting the right areas.

Did some single leg bridges on a swiss ball and these felt nails, holding the position for 20 seconds then I'm a trembling wreck. Is it better to hold the position with these or sort of do reps of rolling the ball back and forth?

Also had a go on the Hip Flexor Machine (Not sure of the actual name) where it has a weighted pad which you swing with your leg. Depending on how you use it it appearently targets your Hip Flexors or Hip Extensors, worth using?

Cheers

[shark]

All good knowlege here guys, thanks for sharing your experiance Shark. Good to hear you sorted the problem in the end. Goes to show again it's not always obvious what is actually the problem. Do you still have to do exercises/stretches to maintain strength/flexability in the back?

Only what I mentioned but I would try out more and do it more regularly if my back started playing up. I still crunch my back into place using a broom handle in the crook of my elbows - saves on visiting the osteopath. My priority has shifted to sorting my shoulder positioning and flexibility out. 

[tomtom]

All good knowlege here guys, thanks for sharing your experiance Shark. Good to hear you sorted the problem in the end. Goes to show again it's not always obvious what is actually the problem. Do you still have to do exercises/stretches to maintain strength/flexability in the back?

Only what I mentioned but I would try out more and do it more regularly if my back started playing up. I still crunch my back into place using a broom handle in the crook of my elbows - saves on visiting the osteopath. My priority has shifted to sorting my shoulder positioning and flexibility out.

Similar but nowhere near as severe as Shark - my Osteo says all my lower back issues are due to an over S shaped spine - leading to the lower part taking too much strain. My thorasic spine (sp?) the bit above my lower back to my shoulders - was according to him virtually solid. This gets cracked loose every couple of weeks by him - and I have a couple of exercises to help this... ranging from stretching out the pecs, to figure of 8s with my elbows (pointed forwards with hands behind head) to some sort of lunge stretch to get my pelvis to sit at a better angle.. No silver bullets for me amongst that lot, but together it seems to be helping. Sorting out my seating postion at home and work has been very important though..

[rodma]

Similar but nowhere near as severe as Shark - my Osteo says all my lower back issues are due to an over S shaped spine - leading to the lower part taking too much strain. My thorasic Jurassic spine (sp?) the bit above my lower back to my shoulders - was according to him virtually solid

 

this is the problem with many fossils. i'm really not sure how useful the manipualations are.

[shark]

My thorasic spine (sp?) the bit above my lower back to my shoulders - was according to him virtually solid. This gets cracked loose every couple of weeks by him - and I have a couple of exercises to help this... ranging from stretching out the pecs, to figure of 8s with my elbows (pointed forwards with hands behind head) to some sort of lunge stretch to get my pelvis to sit at a better angle.. No silver bullets for me amongst that lot, but together it seems to be helping. Sorting out my seating postion at home and work has been very important though..

Worth trying the "torch on chest" mobility exercise and the yoga block under shoulder blades I described. You'll never do a bridge but it could help regain enough mobility to avoid reinjury

[tomtom]

Similar but nowhere near as severe as Shark - my Osteo says all my lower back issues are due to an over S shaped spine - leading to the lower part taking too much strain. My thorasic Jurassic spine (sp?) the bit above my lower back to my shoulders - was according to him virtually solid

 

this is the problem with many fossils. i'm really not sure how useful the manipualations are.

Well I get a dutiful amount of spine cracks per session... christ I hate it... breathe in... breathe ou....CRACK....t

Bizarrely the first time I got uncontrollable giggles...

[nai]

In response to Nai, I tried the hamstring stretch and I can bring both legs to 90 degrees (sepeartaly), then I start to feel the tightness/shaking.

Not sure whether this is good or bad on the flexability scale?

Very good I'd say.  Physio said I was fairly flexible and had decent posture "for a climber". 

Must admit to slight disappointment at my limit though, I'd run 2-3 times a week all last year and always stretched afterwards.  Could get my chin on my knee in the hurdlers stretch position, thought I was really flexible but turns out I had limited hamstring range and tight hip flexors, things that I'd never considered problems.  On a later visit when the back had eased up I demonstrated some of my post-run stretches and he pointed out how I was cheating at them to make it look like I was more flexible than I actually was.

[Fultonius]

I've been suffering from a sore lower back the last couple of weeks. Quite a sharp pain at first which I noticed for the first time when doing some deadlifts after a bouldering session. It wasn't all that sore, more of a "oh, my back doesn't like that, I'll sack it off and go home".

I rested up until the pain went, then have been doing some gentle strengthening rehab. Bouldering was restricted at first but the last couple of sessions felt totally fine. After bouldering yesterday I did some deadlifts and squats and today it's feeling tired and tense, but not sore. Those 8 point planks didn't seem to bad, but they did really target the "weak" point in my back.

In hindsight, my form for lifting was a bit mixed up - the reason being I used to Romanian deadlifts when I was rehabing my knee (as per physio recc.), but that was always light weights and not full ROM. My GF noticed that I was going too far and allowing my back to round a little bit. 

Yesterday I was doing "normal" deadlifts (with not much weight, just rehab) and my back felt pretty strong and my form felt "good".

Doing that aforementioned "lie on the back, lift leg" hamstring tension test I can get about 80 degrees before my hamstrings limit the ROM. Incidentally this is the point where hanging leg raises pound my lower back, especially after 6 or 7 reps.

Front levers also pound that part of my back too.

Anyway, the point of this ramble was - this thread has highlighted that I should start being more conscious of my flexibility and start focussing on long-term lower back strength.

[Sasquatch]

Had to try the floor hamstring stretch thingy for curiousity's sake. 80 and 90 if I point my toes more up, 45 and 50ish if I point my toes towards my body.  Apparently my calves are my issue(I actually knew this already )

Back to the low back stuff.  As was mentioned earlier, take a long view and work up to the stuff.  3-6 months is a good starting point for planning, and work through progressive exercises.  Don't overdo it with one.  General idea would be to start with something easier, and do higher volume 3-5 sets of 12-15 reps for about 4 weeks, then progress into more direct strength work dropping down to 5-8 sets of 3-5 reps (aiming for 20-25 total reps). 

As Fultonius mentioned, get the form right, as the wrong form can really screw you up. 

[Luke Owens]

On a later visit when the back had eased up I demonstrated some of my post-run stretches and he pointed out how I was cheating at them to make it look like I was more flexible than I actually was.

Leaves me a little confused as to what might be the weak link with me, I was expecting a poor result from the hamstring stretch. Even doing what Sasquatch mentioned about pointing the toes toward the body I can still get to 90 degress. What would be described as cheating? Just want to make sure I'm not fooling myself.

Back to the low back stuff.  As was mentioned earlier, take a long view and work up to the stuff.  3-6 months is a good starting point for planning, and work through progressive exercises.  Don't overdo it with one.  General idea would be to start with something easier, and do higher volume 3-5 sets of 12-15 reps for about 4 weeks, then progress into more direct strength work dropping down to 5-8 sets of 3-5 reps (aiming for 20-25 total reps). 

Cheers, I'll make sure I keep with the higher volume for now. Does high rep work actually strengthen muscles to some extent too?

[nai]

On a later visit when the back had eased up I demonstrated some of my post-run stretches and he pointed out how I was cheating at them to make it look like I was more flexible than I actually was.

Leaves me a little confused as to what might be the weak link with me, I was expecting a poor result from the hamstring stretch. Even doing what Sasquatch mentioned about pointing the toes toward the body I can still get to 90 degress. What would be described as cheating? Just want to make sure I'm not fooling myself.

Apologies for the confusion, it wasn't this I was deemed to be cheating at, this was just a test he did to asses the length of my hamstrings then explained the mechanics of a leg raise and how it differs beyond the limit of the hamstrings and why I was currently lying on his treatment table in agony. 

If you can get to 90 then you may be ok but if try them note how the lower back changes at the top of the raise, see if it feels like you're using your back to get the last part of the rep finished. Keeping a slight bend in your legs would possibly help keep the form correct.

[tomtom]

For all those with lower back niggles - or planning lower back training regimes:

Take care... I'm still a long way from recovered 3 months after symptoms started - and according to my Osteo I'm getting better faster than expected...