[Yoof]

I was stuck around v6-7 for years, doing the odd v8, and desperately wanting to climb harder, but never managing. The problem was that I was only ever trying v6s, 7s and 8s, and easier stuff, and I was always doing them in the most efficient way I could (lank, body position, lots of heel/toe hooks/cams, loads of egyptians, sneaky sequences etc. etc.).  Doing that made me really good at climbing those grades efficiently (like, flash every v6 and a lot of v7s) but I couldn't for the life of me do a single v8 power problem, or ever touch v9.

Some times, the best technique involves a lot of failure, some training, getting stronger and trying hard.

[ghisino]

Geez... Every paragraph in this topic makes le want to reply! Not to give away any particular truths but Just to exchange on a subject touching my job and passion, with a "safe" audience (my clients are out of your reach in case i say bs!)

Re Yoof.
Did you pursue technique as "mastery" of moves, at the time? As in, "owning" the move and do it with ballet-like fluency?
I think that's one of the things that can hold back intermediate and good climbers, as for them getting on something "meaningful" in terms of overall training value means giving a 100% effort on moves they do not master yet.

I once complained with an ex national coach about the fact that my hardest ascents are rarely a show of mastery and I perceive myself climbing "badly" when at my absolute limit.
He replied : Ghisino, what is your goal? Sending, or showing off? Either one is ok, but be clear with yourself!

[Yoof]

I would say so yeah, but I'm not sure "owning" is the word I'd choose, "cruising through" more like?

[Sasquatch]

Geez... Every paragraph in this topic makes le want to reply! Not to give away any particular truths but Just to exchange on a subject touching my job and passion, with a "safe" audience (my clients are out of your reach in case i say bs!)

Please do!  I have zero access to anyone with more climbing experience in person, so I end up having to self learn anything and everything i can.  so far it's generally worked, but I'd love to get feedback

Re Yoof.
Did you pursue technique as "mastery" of moves, at the time? As in, "owning" the move and do it with ballet-like fluency?
I think that's one of the things that can hold back intermediate and good climbers, as for them getting on something "meaningful" in terms of overall training value means giving a 100% effort on moves they do not master yet.

I once complained with an ex national coach about the fact that my hardest ascents are rarely a show of mastery and I perceive myself climbing "badly" when at my absolute limit.
He replied : Ghisino, what is your goal? Sending, or showing off? Either one is ok, but be clear with yourself!

Interesting. When I'm at my absolute limit, the two have to go hand in hand.  Most of my hardest sends (the ones that were truly at my limit) over the last 3 years have all required perfection of movement as well as 10% effort.  It's been the ones just below that level where I often feel like I'm climbing badly, but still able to send. 

[Johnny Brown]

Perfection of movement and 10% effort, now you've got me interested!

I don't get as much satisfaction if I don't climb well, regardless of the difficulty. Let's not forget grading is arbitrary, vague and at best an average - a false god. Climbing well is satisfying whatever the grade.

I think drills and repetition are under-used in climbing.Bruce Lee quote: "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." Most of the stuff locally I didn't feel I did well I've had the opportunity to return to and try to improve on. My perception of difficulty is that if I can climb it badly, it's not hard.

[Sasquatch]

whoops 100%

[rodma]

Perfection of movement and 10% effort, now you've got me interested!

I don't get as much satisfaction if I don't climb well, regardless of the difficulty. Let's not forget grading is arbitrary, vague and at best an average - a false god. Climbing well is satisfying whatever the grade.

I think drills and repetition are under-used in climbing.Bruce Lee quote: "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." Most of the stuff locally I didn't feel I did well I've had the opportunity to return to and try to improve on. My perception of difficulty is that if I can climb it badly, it's not hard.

Most of us use repetition of pretty much the same movement over and over and over when climbing, the problem is that for the most part it is the repetition of poorly executed moves between (relative ) buckets.

The warm up and if you do one, the warm down are perfect opportunities to concentrate on executing moves very fluidly and efficiently, but how many of us do that rather than just disengaging the brain completely, or thinking about what project we are going to try, or thinking how hungry we are, or about how much chalk we've inhaled, or how tasty cookies are, or some trip or other, or what we're going to have for dinner later.

[Muenchener]

My perception of difficulty is that if I can climb it badly, it's not hard.

+1

I recovered from a foot slip in mid-crux of a redpoint at the hardest grade I have climbed so far. Thus I know I can climb harder.

[Fultonius]

One of my favourite technique drills is as follows:

When a new set of problems are set at the wall (or equally, when I used to boulder at Dumbarton a lot) I would slowly build up a circuit of problems in ascending difficulty. The easier problems would be ones I flashed first time, building up to ones that took a few goes, then on to a couple that maybe took me a few sessions to nail but can now do first time.

After some basic traversing for a general warm up, I work though these problems trying to do them as efficiently as possible. Usually after 5 or 6 sessions this circuit becomes a really nice warm up where I really get those movement engrams wired. At Dumby I would always finish my warm up with Slap Happy (7A) and Mestizo Sit Start (7A+) which would give me a really good gauge as to the days friction and my strength.

For my first 5 years of climbing I was pretty strong, but with sloppy technique. I've barely got any stronger, in fact, I'm weaker than my lofty peak of Font7b  but now I can usually get outdoor 7As in good time (Flash or a few goes, unless they're not my style) (remember, I'm not much of a boulderer). Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is my technique has come on loads over the years and I can now do so much more with less.  Now I'd just like to get some power back and actually make a bit of progress for a change.

[TheTwig]

I was stuck around v6-7 for years, doing the odd v8, and desperately wanting to climb harder, but never managing. The problem was that I was only ever trying v6s, 7s and 8s, and easier stuff, and I was always doing them in the most efficient way I could (lank, body position, lots of heel/toe hooks/cams, loads of egyptians, sneaky sequences etc. etc.).  Doing that made me really good at climbing those grades efficiently (like, flash every v6 and a lot of v7s) but I couldn't for the life of me do a single v8 power problem, or ever touch v9.

Some times, the best technique involves a lot of failure, some training, getting stronger and trying hard.

Definitely hear you dude, I have grades that I expect to flash every time, but up the ante a little and I can't touch really powerful tension style stuff even a grade harder. There's alot to be said for trying problems where you can't even do one move. My bouldering has improved loads this year by trying to get 1 move further in to problems that are basically impossible for me. It's been a real eye opener

[Yoof]

Does anyone have tips for working 2 move wonders? Thinking of rest times etc.

I've got myself a project, and I seem to have 2 good attempts on it per session before I can't pull hard enough anymore...

[ghisino]

Does anyone have tips for working 2 move wonders? Thinking of rest times etc.

I've got myself a project, and I seem to have 2 good attempts on it per session before I can't pull hard enough anymore...

Purely Powerful: Clusters of roughly  5 attempts, 30 secs at least between each attempt, 2 to 10 min between each cluster.

Purely techy: 15 mins on, 10 off

Of course there is a spectrum in between the two...

Good visualization might save you a few tries. This would be more focused on being fully activated for the powerful case, and on move subtleties for the techy one.

[blamo]

Does anyone have tips for working 2 move wonders? Thinking of rest times etc.

I've got myself a project, and I seem to have 2 good attempts on it per session before I can't pull hard enough anymore...

I am definitely slacking on this, but I always brush the holds, tell myself to try really hard, and get on and go for it...  I try really hard to not rush or give it so so goes...  I am finding there is a huge difference between trying and REALLY trying!

[Yoof]

Thanks- it's more towards the super-powerful end of the spectrum, guess I'll be trying really hard at short intervals (avoiding injury)