[Fultonius]

I rarely do any structured training. I find it too...sterile, erm. can't think of the word right now.  Anyway, I quickly get bored and start doing problems. I love onsighting, especially routes. I probably have ADHD or something 

So, I'd like some guidance on achieving my spring/summer goals. I want to finish off a local sport project of mine if I get the chance. It's a "soft" 8a. 10 metres to a good rest, then another 5m to the crux which goes straight into a tricky wall to finish with only awkward rests. Vid here:

I also want to be really f*cking strong to crush any trad, alpine and bouldering projects that get in my way. I'm a jack of all trades and have no urge to focus on one thing.

At my disposal I have:

Beastmaker 2000  (which is practically an ornament)
Bouldering wall. (I currently go around 3 times a week, there's some set problems of various grades, an adjustable wall with loads of holds for circuits, campus board, steep cave and a gym)
The big outdoors  (ice climbing, dry tooling, alpinism etc.)

I'd put my current level at:  Bouldering: Font 7A quite quickly / sometime flash (outdoors) Rarely project stuff, probably max ~7B
Sport - Fr 7b second go, Fr7a+ onsight. Haven't projected in a while.
Trad E4, Solid E3

I'd like to up all of those i.e Fr7b onsight (routes) and tick off the Fr8a proj. Boulder ... hmm... harder? Maybe 7c?  (Hardest I've ever bouldered was 7B, or 7B+ trav  no, no, nothing...  and some more alpine hard trad, E4/E5 2-300m+

I'd like some general advice on how to break up my training into rough "phases" between now and May. I.e. Should I start off with long, easy circuits, then progress to hard bouldering, then PE circuits. I'm talking macro planning, not micro - 2 weeks of this, 2 weeks of that.

If I go out and do a 200m WI5/6 icefall and get pumped out my tree, what does this count as?

You wisdom, please.           

[tomtom]

I too find training really really dull. Routines I find very hard to keep, and I have the attention span of a...

sorry, was watching the tennis...

I'm presently rehabbing my back, so doing regular (2-3 times a day) exercises is important - and I find that hard to stick with!

Anyway, going outside is not a problem, I have motivation (mostly) for that - its structuring training...

Classic example is that beastmakering - which I can do with my bad back. I started doing a little (2-3 sets) every day... and was getting right into it. Feeling the burn, challenging myself, fuck yeah etc... NEARLY posted on here that I was getting to like training.. Then I missed a couple of days due to work stuff, got back on, and meh, felt hard, didnt like it... bah...

But - I try and trick myself into training...
1. I beastmaker when there is some football on the radio. Somehow that works for me.
2. I go to the wall at lunchtime when its cheap, I get a free coffee and there are not too many people there - so I can be shit and go home after 45 min and not feel bad..

That is a disjointed ramble... but maybe offers some pointers - or solace!

[fried]

The single best thing I did in January was to move my BM from the bedroom to outside the kitchen; a distance of about 5 metres. I can now BM while cooking or watching stuff on the laptop. Makes training much more palatable I find.

[mrjonathanr]

move BM to the kitchen. Makes training much more palatable.

Tres spirituel.

[Fultonius]

I don't have much problem with motivation for going down the wall, just not sure what general areas to work on.

I.e.  3 weeks of circuits, then some ... ?  campussing? Power?

I just think if I had some guidaance of what I should be doing and when, then I'm more likely to get better value out my time than my current (and past) appraoch of:

Hmm, today I feel like onsighting all the new problems. Next day I feel like working on some harder ones and maybe potter on the campus board, then...oh, maybe I should do circuits.


Everyone talks about doing ARC and AeroCapPPOW and all these other things but I don't know so well how these things apply to ME!

For example, what would a 24 move circuit that I can finish and maybe do half another curcuit count as?  (15 degree board, small feet, small to medium holds (mainly first joint, incut)

Or, a 40+ move circuit that takes 2.5 minutes?

Or, 8.5 minutes of continuous circuits?

Or, back to back problems that I have wired (V4/V5) with minimal rest?

These are all things I do, so if I could figure out a plan from this, I might get somewhere...

[abarro81]

Very roughly, and avoiding the terminology you don't like I'd go down the route of
 Feb/March - lots of strengthy stuff and longer/easy/volume enduro stuff. Boulder, fingerboard, do blocks of 10-20min on the wall with a gentle pump but not about to fall off
April - keep doing some strengthy stuff, perhaps throw in some campusing, but do more circuits where you get either boxed out of your skull or powered out. For the harder powered out circuits have good rests and high quality attempts, for the 'boxed to fuck' circuits have short rests and thus make the circuits easier.

[abarro81]

I would add that during Feb/Mar I would aim to be bouldering or doing volume of easier stuff outside, during Apr/May then either boulder or try routes near your limit.

[Fultonius]

Cheers Alex - dummed it down to my level nicely!

Would you do bouldering/strength stuff during the same session as the long, mild pump enduro circuits,or on alternating days/sessions?

I guess going out ice climbing will count nicely as enduro. 

[a dense loner]

Tell him about your metronome Alex

[abarro81]

Would you do bouldering/strength stuff during the same session as the long, mild pump enduro circuits,or on alternating days/sessions?

Depends a lot on your weekly routine and schedule, as well as what your body could take. If doing them in the same day then do the enduro work after the strength work, with as long a gap in between as possible. Let's say you climb outside on the weekend and train Tues, Weds, Thurs - you could train strength tues and weds with the enduro on the thurs, or train strength tues and thurs with an active rest day of light enduro on the Weds if your body can deal with it being active rest, or train strength every day with the enduro on the ends on the weds and thurs sessions..! Hard to know what will work best for you without knowing you though. Actually, hard to know anyway! Can always experiment with a few methods and see which one you prefer. Don't know if others on here have their own preferences for how to arrange their weeks?

I'm not sure quite what dense want me to tell you about what I do to him with my metronome, I thought he'd told me never to speak of it in public...

[Fultonius]

The only outdoor climbing I get here is ice/alpine.      I often do a mix of bouldering and circuits anyway, so I'll probably just stick to doing that. Come April I'll swap it up for some serious pump/power circuits. Cheers! 

[Fultonius]

Tell him about your metronome Alex

P.S. you two can keep your weird contraceptive methods to yourselves. 

[mrjonathanr]

Are you near Cham? There's bouldering circuits at the base of of the Bossons glacier. Think Yann Ghesquiers opened a fair few of them.

[Dolly]

Just boulder as hard as you can on the bouldering wall. Power is everything and it makes PE easier as well. Endurance is easy to get so dont worry about it.

[Sasquatch]

agreed w barrows as a super basic way of getting started with an idea.  as well, though.  When you're doing strength work, the important thing is intensity not volume.  rest long enough to give 100% effort every time, and when you start to fade, end the workout.  You won't gain much more by pushing for a longer strength workout, except to increase fatigue and have a longer recovery period. 

[Fultonius]

Are you near Cham? There's bouldering circuits at the base of of the Bossons glacier. Think Yann Ghesquiers opened a fair few of them.

In Cham, but it's buried until April. There are other places to go, but these days I'm more inclined to go skiing or ice climbing than fight with snowy, cold, mossy boulders.

Meddonet and plex in the spring though, I'll be there!

[Fultonius]

agreed w barrows as a super basic way of getting started with an idea.  as well, though.  When you're doing strength work, the important thing is intensity not volume.  rest long enough to give 100% effort every time, and when you start to fade, end the workout.  You won't gain much more by pushing for a longer strength workout, except to increase fatigue and have a longer recovery period.

Interesting. I have a habit of not resting much between goes, even when bouldering "hard". I'll try and focus more on having good goes and resting more between goes.

[jwi]

I think the two most common mistakes climbers are who try to gain strength do is:

1) Not resting enough.

2) Never trying really hard moves. When I ask people to set a two move boulder problem at their absolute limit in the gym, hard enough that it would take them at least 10-15 quality tries with 3 min rest between the goes to nail the individual moves, they almost invariable set something that they can either flash or do within 2-3 attempts.

I'm as guilty as everyone else. For 1) I usually need a stopwatch, I cannot pace myself any other way. For 2) I find it slightly easier to choose set problems (if they exist) above my redpoint limit, find the hardest moves and work them individually.

When you get closer in time to when you can get to your project, set circuits that physically simulate the part of the route that gives you problems.

[Fultonius]

I think the two most common mistakes climbers are who try to gain strength do is:

1) Not resting enough.

2) Never trying really hard moves. When I ask people to set a two move boulder problem at their absolute limit in the gym, hard enough that it would take them at least 10-15 quality tries with 3 min rest between the goes to nail the individual moves, they almost invariable set something that they can either flash or do within 2-3 attempts.

I'm as guilty as everyone else. For 1) I usually need a stopwatch, I cannot pace myself any other way. For 2) I find it slightly easier to choose set problems (if they exist) above my redpoint limit, find the hardest moves and work them individually.

When you get closer in time to when you can get to your project, set circuits that physically simulate the part of the route that gives you problems.

Sounds just like me! I guess I like trying problems that I can see I'll manage reasonably quickly, but since this is training I should probably focus more on  trying really damn hard!  I remember seeing Malc just hanging moves when working a problem, ie.e if he couldn't quite make a move, he would just hold the holds statically for a few seconds.

[Nibile]

Setting is tricky, isn't it?
It's amazing what our body can learn in a few minutes! From not touching the hold, to linking moves, it's all very subtle.

[Muenchener]

+1

One of my local walls has two boulder rooms: a new, modern, neon blob room and an old, dingy cave with some lightly overhanging panels with lots of little crimps and lots of little polished chips for feet. Proper old school, feels almost like rocking it 1980s brick edge style. The problems are all set with defined handholds and free use of chips for feet. It is therefore much, much better than neon blob style for learning how precise foot and body postioning can make holds holdable or not.

(Seems to also work as training for comp style neon blobs, 'cos Monika Retschy trains there)

[Sasquatch]

I think the two most common mistakes climbers are who try to gain strength do is:

1) Not resting enough.

2) Never trying really hard moves. When I ask people to set a two move boulder problem at their absolute limit in the gym, hard enough that it would take them at least 10-15 quality tries with 3 min rest between the goes to nail the individual moves, they almost invariable set something that they can either flash or do within 2-3 attempts.

I'm as guilty as everyone else. For 1) I usually need a stopwatch, I cannot pace myself any other way. For 2) I find it slightly easier to choose set problems (if they exist) above my redpoint limit, find the hardest moves and work them individually.

When you get closer in time to when you can get to your project, set circuits that physically simulate the part of the route that gives you problems.

A huge eye opener for me was moving into developing.  No one had graded anything so it was just an exploration to see what you could do.  Anythig goes

[mrjonathanr]

It can be tricky to accurately see the gap between what you can't touch now, what will come with dedication to the problem and what's beyond you.

Loads of rest between goes or it's pointless for pure power tho.

[Fultonius]

I do now wonder if that's why I've always plateaued around 7B but my endurance has always been good - under-resting! (also not being a boulderer...)

[mrjonathanr]

You describe a good regime for building power-stamina.