[kelvin]

Was doing some ancap on the smallest campus rails last night and my middle two are 90deg and the index and pinky are dragging, the pinky less so.

I'd normally say the middle two chisel (like dense?) but I guess that's half crimp according to the pics.

[Muenchener]

Full crimping feels totally unnatural and strange to me, it's really something I have to consciously try to do.

There's another position that I find myself using e.g. on slate - not a conscious choice, just what it seems natural to do on small holds on slabs - with my fingers completely curled over 180 degrees, fingernails against the rock and the tips of my fingers on the hold. Anybody else do this / does it have a name?

[kelvin]

Anybody else do this / does it have a name?

'Desperate'

I do the same on slate sometimes.

[tomtom]

Anybody else do this / does it have a name?

'Desperate'

I do the same on slate sometimes.

Cuticle death...

[kelvin]

Too Cute to Pull

[abarro81]

Kelvin - that's what I mean by half crimp, or my natural position.

[gme]

[/quote]
I've not yet done 1-4-7 or 1-5-7 on a moon spaced campus board.  This fall I came close to 1-4-7, touching the rung, but never getting over the rung to be able to stick it.  Your goal is v7, and I was at v12/13.  I think this shows two great points.  I need to work on campusing, and you probably don't need to.  I'd guess your time may be better spent focussing on something else as a weakness. Just a thought.
[/quote]

Definitely welcomed but I completely forgot to mention that that was NOT on small rungs... Those were pretty big.
I'm combining campussing with finger boarding alot lately to train for the crux on my DWS project. Using big moves for the power generation and obviously fingerboard for fingers.
I am still bouldering alot to train but kind of focussed on the boards atm...

Thanks Todd!
[/quote]

Despite it being around for a long time now, backed by science and by strong people I am still not sure of the benefits of the campus board. I know so many people who can/could only just do 1-4-7 who consistently bouldered in the 8s inside and out. And i know lots who can do 1-5-8 who cant do 7B. Your level even on big rungs seems completely out of kilter with the grade your climbing and i would suggest has no benefit to your training.
I can boulder V7 outside even on burly stuff at the minute but cant even lock off on a bar never mind do 1-4-7. like Sasquatch i could probably benefit from doing a bit of campusing, but even then i am not convinced it will be better for me than just bouldering on steep boards.

[kelvin]

Kelvin - that's what I mean by half crimp, or my natural position.

Definitely my natural 4 finger position - like Muenchener, I find full crimp something I really have to think about using whereas yours just feels 'proper' to me.

Maybe that's why I'm weak and feeble tho!

[shark]

For me there is a distinct difference between full crimp, half crimp and chisel when using a small edge.

Ill post some pics later if my iphone is successfully repaired 

[tomtom]

For me there is a distinct difference between full crimp, half crimp and chisel when using a small edge.

Ill post some pics later if my iphone is successfully repaired

the 6 is a much better phone for crimp training than the 4/4s.. smoother edges...

[Will Hunt]

Short term goals:
- Figure out what my weaknesses really are (if anybody out there climbs/has climbed with me then please tell me what they are. My feelings won't be hurt!)
- Build a coherent training plan around these that will create long term improvement
- Put it in action and arrive in Font injury free (early April)
- 3 sessions of climbing related training per week

M -
T - Fingerboard. Trying out different grips for about an hour (including WU). Trying to find what works and how I can get into Dave Mac's 5-8 second zone. Worked front and back 3 in open hand only.
W - Gym. Assisted one armers (-10Kg) 3 sets of one rep on each arm. Weighted pull ups (+15kg) 3x3. Toes-to-bar - 3x3 - could not fully complete the last set.
T -
F - Beer and a late night
S - Did one route at Horseshit - horribly cold. Bailed to Curbar and did Trackside and a few easy problems.
S - 2 games of Munchkin and 2 games of Settlers of Catan. YYFY.

Not a great week in terms of training. Didn't get on a board, which having read 9 out of 10 Climbers, I think is a big issue. Technique on properly steep stuff is obviously crap.

There was quite a bit of discussion about starting core training.  Are you going to go down that road as I only see the 3x3 toes-to-bar in this cycle?  It seems like an obvious weakness to address.

Its in the plan. However I think that focussing on building 'core' strength would be a mistake. When I had a board session at the Depot the week before it became obvious that there were large gains to be made by improving steep ground technique - hence trying to get down the board a bit too.

[nai]

I was goign to start offering up suggestion to those who are posting - if you think they're shit feel free to say so, and obviously they'll be well researched from reading 1-2 threads

  The more interactive these threads become and the more we question what we're doing the better.

[fried]

+1

I sometimes feel like I'm just doing random thing with no logic connected to them, especially indoors.

[gme]

Gme, is this:

Wed- Climbing works red and greens aerocap thingy. 75 problems 750+ moves 45 mins.

something you came up with?

I've been reading the Andersons' RCTM and they recommend traditional (>30 mins on) ARC for bouldering base fitness.

I wondered if doing lots of relatively easy problems was better as it seems more specific to bouldering.

Sorry i have only just seen this.
I read it somewhere but cant remember where. I have done the 30 mins continuous method and the 10 on 10 off but find them tedious to the extreme and pretty antisocial at any wall. I obviously don't have the boredom threshold of Barrows who seems to enjoy doing them on the campus board.

So, after reading an article, i kind of came up with a solution that seems to fit the bill as an exercise, removes the boredom factor and suits the facilities I train at. It takes me about 45 minutes and other than a quick few steps on the ground between problems you are on the wall. You get the constant low level pump pump i believe your looking for and if it gets to high i make my self rest on the wall. If its too easy just add a few of the next level circuit up.

I do mine in the works on the easiest two circuit and it fits perfectly. feels like a piece of piss to start with but pretty out of breath and sweating like a pig by the end, although that might be  to do with how shit i am at this kind of stuff. Oh and i do actually get pretty pumped at times but not to the point of falling off, i need the workout i do to feel like i have done something and dont have the time or inclination to do something for an hour that left me feeling like i had spent an hour in a health spa.

As an add on it shows up how badly i climb when i get a bit pumped so i am concentrating on technique and pulling on the holds as little as possible. This is key to climbing routes and something i now realise i am really shit at. I blame this on bouldering for so long where its all about pulling really hard.

[Sasquatch]

Its in the plan. However I think that focussing on building 'core' strength would be a mistake. When I had a board session at the Depot the week before it became obvious that there were large gains to be made by improving steep ground technique - hence trying to get down the board a bit too.

Makes sense, and you can actually "train" core strength quite a bit while climbing on a steep board.  One method I've used in the past and the youth program here uses quite a bit:

Toward either the begining or end of the session, pick a "moderate" problem.  Climb it 5 times:
using only the left foot,
using only the right foot,
cutting feet each move,
keeping your feet as low as possible (using any feet, just keeping them incredibly low),
Keeping your feet as high as possible. 

Make sure the problem is easy enough to be able to climb it each of these ways.  Each of these works a slightly different "core" area, as well as forcing you to enageg a wider variety of techniques.  win-win

Good luck!

[Sasquatch]

Re: crimp terminology
all joint references start from fingertip, and this is how I've typically viewed them

Closed crimp - first joint hyper extended, second joint at 90+ degrees, thumb wrapped over index and/or middle finger. 

1/2 crimp - Same general position as closed crimp but no thumb.  Typically the first joint will be less hyper extended than a closed crimp, and the second joint will often stay at 90

Chisel - never used this term before

Open - no joints hyper extended

Drag - hooking the meat of the first joint on a sharp edge and using the meatiness to hang the hold.  this is a relatively passive hang compared to the others.  the goal is actually to hook the meat. 


and based on pics Shark posted from the BM site (i think?) my terminology matches the pics for closed, 1/2 and drag.  They don't post open, as it's quite hard to actually open hand a crimp as your pinky won't engage if you're actually open.   


And all quite worthless in general except,  I have found that training the 1/2 crimp with the index bent at 90 translates much better to closed crimping outside for me. 

[Sasquatch]

Gme, is this:

Wed- Climbing works red and greens aerocap thingy. 75 problems 750+ moves 45 mins.

something you came up with?

I've been reading the Andersons' RCTM and they recommend traditional (>30 mins on) ARC for bouldering base fitness.

I wondered if doing lots of relatively easy problems was better as it seems more specific to bouldering.

Sorry i have only just seen this.
I read it somewhere but cant remember where. I have done the 30 mins continuous method and the 10 on 10 off but find them tedious to the extreme and pretty antisocial at any wall. I obviously don't have the boredom threshold of Barrows who seems to enjoy doing them on the campus board.

So, after reading an article, i kind of came up with a solution that seems to fit the bill as an exercise, removes the boredom factor and suits the facilities I train at. It takes me about 45 minutes and other than a quick few steps on the ground between problems you are on the wall. You get the constant low level pump pump i believe your looking for and if it gets to high i make my self rest on the wall. If its too easy just add a few of the next level circuit up.

I do mine in the works on the easiest two circuit and it fits perfectly. feels like a piece of piss to start with but pretty out of breath and sweating like a pig by the end, although that might be  to do with how shit i am at this kind of stuff. Oh and i do actually get pretty pumped at times but not to the point of falling off, i need the workout i do to feel like i have done something and dont have the time or inclination to do something for an hour that left me feeling like i had spent an hour in a health spa.

As an add on it shows up how badly i climb when i get a bit pumped so i am concentrating on technique and pulling on the holds as little as possible. This is key to climbing routes and something i now realise i am really shit at. I blame this on bouldering for so long where its all about pulling really hard.

Makes lots of sense and is something I've done before(the LONG boulder circuit ).  The last paragraph really resonates with me and can actually really help boulderers.  many problems are getting longer and you need to stay fresh.  even if you're not pumped, you will lose strength, so learning to minimize effort on every move to the least required goes a long way. 

[shark]

For me there is a distinct difference between full crimp, half crimp and chisel when using a small edge.

Ill post some pics later if my iphone is successfully repaired

Full crimp


Half crimp


Chisel

[kelvin]

I reckon I'm usually somewhere between a half crimp and a chisel then - it is what it is.

Hope you hung them there one-armers shark? Footsies on the floor is cheating...

[Muenchener]

OK, then my natural grip is somewhere around a half chisel. Glad we cleared that up.

[JackAus]

Even so, I can't do 1-4-7 on the medium or large rungs.  Like I said it, makes for a good comparison of relative strengths. 

An alternative if you not specifically training for a campus move is to do max moves using a foot on to generate momentum.  This can be done either matched hands, or offset. 

Cheers and good luck w the DWS project.  That's something i'd like to do sometime.

Despite it being around for a long time now, backed by science and by strong people I am still not sure of the benefits of the campus board. I know so many people who can/could only just do 1-4-7 who consistently bouldered in the 8s inside and out. And i know lots who can do 1-5-8 who cant do 7B. Your level even on big rungs seems completely out of kilter with the grade your climbing and i would suggest has no benefit to your training.
I can boulder V7 outside even on burly stuff at the minute but cant even lock off on a bar never mind do 1-4-7. like Sasquatch i could probably benefit from doing a bit of campusing, but even then i am not convinced it will be better for me than just bouldering on steep boards.

Hmm... Food for thought there. 
I'd just always thought that my campussing could do with improving. Moving to smaller holds definitely will help I know.....

[Muenchener]

There's another position that I find myself using e.g. on slate - not a conscious choice, just what it seems natural to do on small holds on slabs - with my fingers completely curled over 180 degrees, fingernails against the rock and the tips of my fingers on the hold. Anybody else do this / does it have a name?

If I understand correctly, you mean the grip position which effectively turns the hand into a skyhook?

Exactly. And it occurred to me that the reason to use them on slate is that you get holds that are tiny incut jugs, and trying to get the fingers down inside feels more secure than crimping on the edge as if they were flat.

[nai]

On the subject of the true "full crimp", It has dawned on me recently that I never really do them as shown in the photos as my fingers don't hyper-extend.

Mine don't either, although they used to. Still a full crimp if you're using the thumb wrapped over forefinger though, surely?

[tomtom]

I would like to coin the phrase describing the ambiguous ground in between a chisel and a half crimp.

"Chimp"....

[LB1782]

Sorry i have only just seen this.
I read it somewhere but cant remember where.
...
It takes me about 45 minutes and other than a quick few steps on the ground between problems you are on the wall.

Thanks gme, turns out Rocksteady asked pretty much the same question in this topic and jwi and abarro81 came to the same conclusion.

I have tried something similar but there isn't really the volume of easy stuff where I train. I ended up doing 55 probs up to my flash level. Ended up too pumped and being on the ground too long for it to feel ARC-like.

In future I'll just repeat problems and make easy stuff up.