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Old Knees - general advice (Read 1947 times)

fatneck

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Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 09:46:00 am
So I've been climbing for a good while now, I'm not getting any younger and I have knees that won't accept any form of heel hooking. Well they will heel hook and generally feel fine (unless it's a deep reverse egyptian type knee dropping heel hook in which case I definitely avoid as this has caused severe knee injury in the past) but by the evening the knee is sore and this can then take a month to go away. Point in case - last night at the hangar, trying an easy-ish roof problem involving a heel hook, a couple of attempts, do it, no problem. Now sat at my desk with my leg extended and feeling sore....

I'm not really looking for diagnosis/treatment advice but more looking for things I can do that will mean I can heel hook in future with out injuring myself. I enjoy roof climbing and would prefer to still be able to do this kind of climbing so - how can I strengthen the knees to accommodate this kind of manoeuvre? This could be in the gym, at home, whilst sat at my desk, at the wall....

I tend to avoid squatts/lunges etc due to seriously "clicky" knees. Are clicky knees a bad thing? Should I be doing these kinds of excercises?

P.S. I have searched and trawled through responses prior to posting...

tomtom

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#1 Re: Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 10:05:49 am
Where in the knee does it hurt?

fatneck

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#2 Re: Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 10:09:13 am
Around the base and right hand side of the kneecap... Minor swelling and stiffness (fnarr fnarr)

tomtom

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#3 Re: Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 10:23:35 am
:( Hmm... strange it comes from hooking...

Can you not just avoid all heel hook problems? Would be perfect for Peak ethics ;)

Johnny Brown

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#4 Re: Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 10:24:40 am
I'm very wary of heel-hooking on indoor jugs. I'm pretty sure my knee injury which resulted in an arthroscopy started with such a move. The problem is the holds are often so deep your foot sinks right in, preventing any rotation. They feel good, really positive but I think are bad news. Rock or harder problems rarely feature such positive heelhooks.

hamsforlegs

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#5 Re: Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 10:36:34 am
I think JB might be onto something there. Since finding myself a ligament down a few years ago I am way more cautious on heel hooks, and also have the same kind of 'afterglow' following some problems.

Some things that have helped me:
a) Caution - as you outlined in your OP, just being careful to avoid repeated aggressive moves
b) Working on hip mobility
c) Maintaining good strength and flexibility in quads, hams, glutes and all of the muscles around the groin/pelvis

Your knee is basically just a hinge; all of the twisting/rotation needs to come from your hip (or ankle), so I try googling 'hip mobility' or visiting MobilityWOD and checking out the hip mobilisations. I've found that even just warm up drills to increase the range of movement in a side-lunge or 'knees out' squat position are really helpful.

I don't think clicky knees are a problem intrinsically, but they can sometimes indicate damage or debris. Unless you get pain/discomfort I wouldn't worry about this. Squats are a good idea mainly because they improve your hip mobility in a practical way; look up 'goblet squats' and do a few sets every day until you can manage deep squats with wide knees.

In terms of strength, doing some goblet squats with a dumbell or kettlebell, and some deadlifts or romanian deadlifts with a moderate weight will go a long way to increasing the stability of your knees. Personally I have found that doing 'rear foot elevated' squats (sort of a static lunge with the back foot up on a bench) really useful; working up to 2x30kg dumbells for several short sets. Even unweights it's a great exercise that you can do in the park. I would warn though that you need to really focus on form and make sure that your front knee doesn't come more than an inch or so forward of the toes; really sit back and down. Loads of vids on the web.

Basically anything that requires you to stabilise and drive your upper leg using your glutes and deep supporting muscles is likely to help.

EDIT: Oh, and meant to say remember to keep working on your hamstring flexibility. Not normally an issue for climbers but worth checking. Tight hamstrings mean quite a bit of strain in the knee when you have to raise your leg up high. If they're flexible, you will start a heel hook from a less compromised position.

fatneck

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#6 Re: Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 10:52:34 am
Thanks all...

Agree about just avoiding heel hooks indoors although ironically my worst knee injury came from climbing outdoors! Voodoo people at Warton I think... This means I will just have to get brutally strong and campus everything ;)

Interesting point about hamstrings and general flexibility. I'm not at all flexible and whilst I used to stretch, I've let this slip in recent years. There are Pilates classes (free) offered at work, starting to attend these would be a good step I think...

I deadlift regularly but only started doing this recently. Will look into squats etc

Thanks again...

tomtom

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#7 Re: Old Knees - general advice
January 12, 2015, 11:11:40 am
My hamstrings are normally what lets down hooking - anything too hard and they start to hurt where they join the glute/buttock...

Tried putting a toe on instead?

 

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