[mctrials23]

Lately I've found that I hit a bit of a wall when climbing indoors once the grade gets up to about V7. Below that I can generally muscle and lank my way through the moves if they are awkward but on harder stuff and on a 50 degree board I really struggle.

I'm 6'2" and weight about 13.5 stone and very little of that is fat so I can't get any lighter without just dropping muscle.

I tend to struggle on moves that have feet that are very close to my hands and I don't feel like I can get any power put down on the feet or hands (usually one or the other and usually it requires a transition between the two). I find this especially apparent on the 50 degree board and on overhanging routes of a certain grade that are set in a compact manner.

Logically speaking I don't understand how I can overcome this because on a big enough overhang, you have to be pulling down or back on the holds to be able to get purchase on them. Once your feet get high enough that pushes the rest of the body higher and suddenly that crimp that was ok has turned into a slopey crimp and I don't have enough on it to make the next move.

I'm getting tired of seeing loads of stuff that is around the grade I am working on but isn't worth trying because I won't get near a certain move. Any tall climbers or people in the know have any advice as to how I can overcome this. I know I need to practice this as its an obvious weakness but its one of those issues that I don't even have a chance to try hard on it because I just peel off.

Slopers are a weakness but at least when I fall off them I have tried really hard to hold them and its a lack of strength that is holding me back.

[lagerstarfish]

Lately I've found that I hit a bit of a wall when climbing indoors

 

very good

[lagerstarfish]

sounds like it's time to learn to milk egyptians and drop-knees for all they're worth

[Stubbs]

Sounds like it could potentially be a hip/hamstring/leg flexibility issue if you are struggling to put power through your feet on high footholds.

[abarro81]

Thoughts:
- Uncomfortably high feet on steep boards often means flicking/jumping through the move due to it being hard to get weight through the foot, especially if the foot is bad. Are you trying to be too in control?
- Flexibility. Also, on a 50 degree I often am more out than up to make room for a high foot - are you pulling up high when you don't need to?
- At 13.5 stone I'd back losing muscle to be worth it. Especially if you route climb.
- Do the move off low feet as a jump

[Johnny Brown]

I have to say I admire mc's restraint in not just moaning about the setting being unfair on the tall.

[mctrials23]

I am pretty much exclusively a boulderer and I don't want to end up a skinny runt so losing weight is something I will probably never do.  I have quite strong legs from years of hockey but they never seem to shrink no matter how much of a sloth I am outside of climbing.

With regards to drop knees, I am fine using them normally but on a route recently where all the shorties were sticking in two drop knees I simply couldn't fit my body into the position to lock it in at all.

I do tend to try and be quite in control when I boulder but I guess on the 50 degree board that isn't always possible. I just don't like the idea of chucking my not insubstantial weight about on awkward tiny crimps. I have just injured my ring finger mucking about on it and I don't think I was doing anything particularly stupid.

[mctrials23]

I have to say I admire mc's restraint in not just moaning about the setting being unfair on the tall.

I was getting to that bit but thought I would save it for later!

Honestly, there are so many climbs at the arch and there are other things to work on that 5 problems that don't suit me are never going to be a big deal. Admittedly since we have just had christmas and the new year, the same stuff has been up for over a month now so its getting a little frustrating but thats just me being a whiny bitch. With my buggered finger its also a blessing in disguise that there are no new sets to work on.

[SA Chris]

Work core muscles? Key for getting power through feet?

[csl]

I was wondering which wall you meant. I climb there a lot, not as tall as you (~ 6') so don't maybe have the same issues.

'I'm getting tired of seeing loads of stuff that is around the grade I am working on but isn't worth trying because I won't get near a certain move.'

Out of interest which circuits/problems do you find particularly bad?

I'm finding all the taped problems on the 50º nails, so have just been using any feet while i work them.

[Sloper]

Lately I've found that I hit a bit of a wall when climbing indoors once the grade gets up to about V7. Below that I can generally muscle and lank my way through the moves if they are awkward but on harder stuff and on a 50 degree board I really struggle.

I'm 6'2" and weight about 13.5 stone and very little of that is fat so I can't get any lighter without just dropping muscle.

I tend to struggle on moves that have feet that are very close to my hands and I don't feel like I can get any power put down on the feet or hands (usually one or the other and usually it requires a transition between the two). I find this especially apparent on the 50 degree board and on overhanging routes of a certain grade that are set in a compact manner.

Logically speaking I don't understand how I can overcome this because on a big enough overhang, you have to be pulling down or back on the holds to be able to get purchase on them. Once your feet get high enough that pushes the rest of the body higher and suddenly that crimp that was ok has turned into a slopey crimp and I don't have enough on it to make the next move.

I'm getting tired of seeing loads of stuff that is around the grade I am working on but isn't worth trying because I won't get near a certain move. Any tall climbers or people in the know have any advice as to how I can overcome this. I know I need to practice this as its an obvious weakness but its one of those issues that I don't even have a chance to try hard on it because I just peel off.

Slopers are a weakness but at least when I fall off them I have tried really hard to hold them and its a lack of strength that is holding me back.

I'd do more climbing outside. 

Most of the people with good technique inside have good technique developed on real rock.

In my experience it's much harder to learn and develop technique on plastic than rock.

[finbarrr]

Lately I've found that I hit a bit of a wall when climbing indoors once the grade gets up to about V7. Below that I can generally muscle and lank my way through the moves

hi, i'm as tall and just over 80 kg, and i know the problem.

my tip would be to go down a few grades and try to do the problems without "lanking".
try to use the high footholds, learn to fold yourself in between the holds.
try to do the moves as they were meant to be done by the setters, the way short people have to do them. if the setters are any good, those movement skills will carry through.

that's what i'm doing.

i still always try to figure out what's the easiest way up, or how many holds i can skip, but i also try to use all the footholds etc.

[mctrials23]

I was wondering which wall you meant. I climb there a lot, not as tall as you (~ 6') so don't maybe have the same issues.

'I'm getting tired of seeing loads of stuff that is around the grade I am working on but isn't worth trying because I won't get near a certain move.'

Out of interest which circuits/problems do you find particularly bad?

I'm finding all the taped problems on the 50º nails, so have just been using any feet while i work them.

Its usually a bit of stuff on the competition wall and 50 degree board but there are quite often some of the greens that fit into that category as well. I don't know if this means anything to you but there is a wooden beastmaker/scarpa holds one on the centre of the comp wall that has a sidepull/undercling just above a volume with the foot on it and I just can't seem to get any tension between the holds as they are about a foot away from each other on an overhang.

There is no suggestion of grades on the 50 degree board so it may just be that what I am trying is harder than I give it credit for. I cant remember what tag colours they are but the ones I have been having a go at are the ones with white, blue and tiger coloured holds.

my tip would be to go down a few grades and try to do the problems without "lanking".
try to use the high footholds, learn to fold yourself in between the holds.
try to do the moves as they were meant to be done by the setters, the way short people have to do them. if the setters are any good, those movement skills will carry through.

Thats probably a good idea thinking about it. There are quite a few problems of a lower grade that I just miss out a tricky rockover or bypass the sequence to make it as easy as possible and that is probably not doing me any favours.

[Sloper]

Indoor problems by and large up to 7a require either technique or strength/power, above that they require strength/power and technique. 

Climbing indoors generally will give you strength and power but rarely will it give you technique, take the arete on Joe's slab, I've seen people who climb into the high 7's indoors be totally shut down on it and there are plenty more 'bags to enjoy.

The simple answer is go outside and climb on vertical and slabby roack, aretes and so on.

[csl]

Yeah i know the one you mean, haven't seen anyone get on very well with it though.

The taped problems feel like they start at V8ish to me.

finbarrs suggestion sounds useful for you!

[abarro81]

Sloper - the technique that will get you up Joe's slab ain't worth shit on a 50 board, in the same way that climbing slabs will not necessarily make you good at the techniques involved in climbing 50 degree tufas.

[blamo]

Perhaps I am stating the obvious (sorry), but you could try replicating easier versions of the problems you are having a hard time with and slowly make the moves harder.  E.g. if there are other footholds nearby that make the problem easier while still replicate the same moves try those and gradually move towards the actual feet. 

[Three Nine]

Climbing indoors generally will give you strength and power but rarely will it give you technique

One of the stupider things i've read on the internet.

[TobyD]

quote author=Three Nine link=topic=25251.msg471328#msg471328 date=1420670432]

Climbing indoors generally will give you strength and power but rarely will it give you technique

One of the stupider things i've read on the internet.

Sloper - the technique that will get you up Joe's slab ain't worth shit on a 50 board, in the same way that climbing slabs will not necessarily make you good at the techniques involved in climbing 50 degree tufas.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. There isn't some golden climbing technique grail which works for everything, various techniques and styles suit different angles, rock types and so on. Sloper's advice may not be bad, depends on what your goals are though.

Climbing indoors generally will give you strength and power but rarely will it give you technique

One of the stupider things i've read on the internet.

You don't look at facebook much these days then?

[mctrials23]

I can't decide whether technique indoors is harder or easier than outdoors in some respects. Indoors you have potentially 4 points of contact in 4 specific locations usually. There isn't usually an option to use a worse foothold that is more comfortable for your size or strengths. You may have the choice of 20 foot placements on a real boulder when you only have a few choices on where to place your foot on an indoor hold.

You obviously have the variable of body position etc but when a move stumps you indoors you sometimes have no choice but to man up and have a go.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice guys. I will be doing the following to try and get better at these sorts of compact movements.

1. Making sure I do problems in the manner a shorter climber would have to rather than lanking it.
2. Identify positions and moves that I find hard on higher grade problems and replicate them on an easier climb to try and figure out how to overcome them.
3. Work to be more dynamic on the 50 degree board and see about hanging further from the hand holds to give my body more room to work with.
4. Add in extra footholds at a more comfortable height on the 50 degree board in order to make the transition into using the ones close to the hand holds. Hopefully this will mean I can get stronger on these moves instead of just slipping off them with a whimper.
5. Tell Yann Genoix to stop setting short man problems

[Muenchener]

I can't decide whether technique indoors is harder or easier than outdoors in some respects. Indoors you have potentially 4 points of contact in 4 specific locations usually. There isn't usually an option to use a worse foothold that is more comfortable for your size or strengths. You may have the choice of 20 foot placements on a real boulder when you only have a few choices on where to place your foot on an indoor hold.

Agree. On rock you often have far more potentially viable foot options than handholds.

A couple of my local walls set some problems with defined handholds and free use of lots of small screw-on chips for feet. I find this a good idea, both in terms of finding the right foot positions and the body tension required to use them effectively.

[Sloper]

Climbing indoors generally will give you strength and power but rarely will it give you technique

One of the stupider things i've read on the internet.

www.dailymail.com

[Sloper]

Sloper - the technique that will get you up Joe's slab ain't worth shit on a 50 board, in the same way that climbing slabs will not necessarily make you good at the techniques involved in climbing 50 degree tufas.

<other problems are available>

[abarro81]

My point extends beyond that specific problem.

[Stubbs]

Sloper - the technique that will get you up Joe's slab ain't worth shit on a 50 board, in the same way that climbing slabs will not necessarily make you good at the techniques involved in climbing 50 degree tufas.

<other problems are available>