[Will Hunt]

I have never undertaken any sort of serious training regime that has lasted more than a day before. Since starting climbing around 10 years ago now, I've just gone climbing lots, indoors and out. Since starting work, ability to do this has tailed off.

Looking at what I've done in the past year or two, it is apparent that I have a weakness developing (besides jamming) which I believe to be power and what I will call "core" for the sake of simplicity (yes, I know that this means hip extensors and flexors). For me, 'hard' means 7B+ - 7C at the moment. Crimpy, smeary, or technical wall climbs generally get done in a session or a number of tries. Roof problems either much longer or don't get done at all.

There is such a mountain of advice out there, much of it full of jargon or contradicting the other stuff, that I don't know where to start. My goals are to get some more power in the tank, improve the 'core', and - most importantly - not get injured from going from no training to a crazy regime too quickly.

The tools I have at my disposal are a Beastmaker 2000, a weekly visit to the Depot/Citybloc, and a thermarest for doing yoga type shizzle on. I'm quite time limited.

Is there one resource which I should read (Dave Mac's book/Gimme Kraft/whatever) that will introduce me to an effective training regime and, moreover, explain the principles of training to a complete beginner and explain the jargon? Does anybody have any set fingerboard routines that will address my shortcomings?

[jwi]

A friend of me (who is a very successful coach in the sense that he has coached climber who've gone from being talented on to do really really hard things) sent me a pdf with a 12 week program of core exercises to do on a balance ball. By week 4 I wasn't just humouring him any more. For bouldering indoors the added core strength made a difference in my ability.

If you want I can send you the pdf.

[Oldmanmatt]

There will be more qualified, hardcore, training boffins along in a moment.

However, as a "just getting started" coach, and with the very limited info gleaned from your post...

It's doesn't sound like finger strength is your main problem.

Not that you should neglect it, but the BM web site and/or their app will give you the best guidance there.

Core seems a more problematic area, at a guess, if you are struggling on roofs. 

I find we get better results from bar work (hanging off one, rather than propping one up..) than floor exercises.
If you can fix a pull up bar at home (rather than using the BM jugs, you don't want to slip off), securely; then L sits, progressing to windscreen wipers, are the way forward.

This is done in conjunction with the basic floor exercises (don't forget the dorsal raises).


You'll find loads of YouTube vids for technique.

Hanging off a bar doesn't do your gross power any harm either...

[tommytwotone]

Your last point in my general experience. Whenever I try to go any kind of "proper" training I just end up knacking my elbows.


I know his extremist views on his blog divide opinion, but I thought 9 out of 10 was a good read, in fact you're welcome to borrow my copy if you like. My takeaway from it was that for a "normal" person with a job, family etc etc then just "do more climbing" is probably the best advice.


One of the old OTE training articles has always stuck with me, IIRC it was a Jerry one about identifying and targeting weaknesses. There was a kind of wheel sector-y type diagram in it. When I am taking things relatively seriously I do tend to try and get out of my comfort zone and do the stuff I'm crap at (roofs for me too) and it does seem to work.

[tomtom]

if you're crap at overhanging stuff - train on more overhanging stuff :D

Being of similar build, I find steep (>30 deg) boards hit my weaknesses the most...

BM/fingerboard is good for finger strength (and some arm stuff if you can be arsed to do pull ups etc) but not really for the core. Nothing works the core for overhanging things like working overhangs on small holds!!

[dunnyg]

I'm the opposite of you will. I found getting to the point of being able to do (poor form) front levers, meant roofy grit moves felt easier, there are plenty of core excercises out there, but I found bar/beastmaker based ones felt most similar/useful. Leg raises/windscreen wipers/front lever progressions. I wouldnt under-estimate how much technique there is to learn on steep stuff too.  Steep boards, with poor feet, trying to keep feet on is one of the most relavent core excercises I have done.

I dont know where I got it from, but one thing thats good is; get on a steep board, start with high ish feet, and move them progressively down, untill you are at full stretch. Make sure the feet are bad. If your feet dont fall off, find some poorer foot holds.

Power wise, campusing is very very useful, but I find it really hard not to get niggles when using it, so haven't really used it as much as I would like. Big moves on steep boards is my other go to tactic, even if its eliminates down the wall. I havent discovered a way of training power on a fingerboard yet. Other option is lamp sessions at woodhouse...

Disclaimer: - currently lacking in both power and core

[Stubbs]

Get on the boards at City Bloc and Depot, will take about 7 or 8 sessions to get into the particularities of the board in which time you can work through the easier problems. Once you are up to speed have 4 or so projects per session once you are warm split your session in between these. Ideally you'll complete 1 or 2 per session and have a few to carry over.

Looking at the problems you have done your fingers seem to be strong enough for small grips, I think bigger moves in bigger holds on steeper ground and boards will pay serious dividends.

For bouldering I'm not sure you need to understand 'training' any further than identifying your weaknesses (which you have done) and working on them effectively. If I wanted to get better at sports climbing on the other hand I'd have to try and understand the Barrows document!

[nai]

Core seems a more problematic area, at a guess, if you are struggling on roofs. 

I find we get better results from bar work (hanging off one, rather than propping one up..) than floor exercises.
If you can fix a pull up bar at home (rather than using the BM jugs, you don't want to slip off), securely; then L sits, progressing to windscreen wipers, are the way forward.

Careful with this, I started doing it a lot and made rapid progress but borked my back.  During a subsequent visit to physio he got me to stretch my hamstrings until they pulled which was at about 70 degrees. So for the last 20 degrees I was engaging my back to complete the rep which, as I got better and ramped the volume up, eventually led to popping a disc out. Slight bend in the knees at the top of the rep would have helped.  As OMM says don't neglect the floor stuff, dishes, planks, etc.

Plus steep board, poor footholds, low feet on your wall visits

[Dexter]

my current favourite core excersise is a variation on leg raises.
Basically do a leg raise then lower and rotate the body 90 degrees to the right/ left (so you can see the wall) and do another raise (this then works obliques too). Then do another raise centrally and then one on the other side.

[Johnny Brown]

I don't know anything about training, but a thermarest won't be much use for yoga. A karrimat might do, but the proper ones aren't slippy, it makes it quite a bit harder if you're sliding around. Only a couple of fuck-alls in Decathlon.

[Muesli]

Deadlifts if you have access to the weights and a bar.

[cjsheps]

My advice RE training information would be to read something that includes a healthy dose of "holistic" training advice, about how to incorporate the scientific method into your training. The Rock Climber's Training Manual is seeming to do a good job so far in this respect.

Whatever you start doing, do it consistently without varying too much (or you'll lose any insight as to whether it worked or not). Record it, test yourself some time later and see if the training worked. Ammend it as required, and remember to let the body rest.

[Will Hunt]

Thanks all for your help. Great to receive so much advice so quickly.

A friend of me (who is a very successful coach in the sense that he has coached climber who've gone from being talented on to do really really hard things) sent me a pdf with a 12 week program of core exercises to do on a balance ball. By week 4 I wasn't just humouring him any more. For bouldering indoors the added core strength made a difference in my ability.

If you want I can send you the pdf.

Yes please! Will need to find a balance ball though!

There will be more qualified, hardcore, training boffins along in a moment.

However, as a "just getting started" coach, and with the very limited info gleaned from your post...

It's doesn't sound like finger strength is your main problem.

Not that you should neglect it, but the BM web site and/or their app will give you the best guidance there.

Core seems a more problematic area, at a guess, if you are struggling on roofs. 

I find we get better results from bar work (hanging off one, rather than propping one up..) than floor exercises.
If you can fix a pull up bar at home (rather than using the BM jugs, you don't want to slip off), securely; then L sits, progressing to windscreen wipers, are the way forward.

This is done in conjunction with the basic floor exercises (don't forget the dorsal raises).


You'll find loads of YouTube vids for technique.

Hanging off a bar doesn't do your gross power any harm either...

Thanks for that. I should have mentioned that the Beastmaker is mounted on a pull up bar, so I can do that. My skin is shafted from the weekend so I will look up some exercises and do some bar work tonight.

I know his extremist views on his blog divide opinion, but I thought 9 out of 10 was a good read, in fact you're welcome to borrow my copy if you like. My takeaway from it was that for a "normal" person with a job, family etc etc then just "do more climbing" is probably the best advice.

Ah, muchas gracias. I will take you up on that. Maybe meet at the Depot sometime or leave it under the counter? A friend sent me some advice on PM and he says the book is good but doesn't really help you formulate a structured programme. I reckon I can maybe have a stab at that if I can understand the basic principles.

Power wise, campusing is very very useful, but I find it really hard not to get niggles when using it, so haven't really used it as much as I would like.

Whenever I use a campus board my wrists feel weird. Not after, just during the exercise. I've avoided them like the plague! Maybe I will have to perservere as this seems to be what will get the power going.


Aside from those comments, the message seems to be to get on a steep board, so I will have to make the effort to get to the Depot more and adapt a session there to be in the back room as opposed to just doing lots of problems front-of-house.

[tomtom]

Aside from those comments, the message seems to be to get on a steep board, so I will have to make the effort to get to the Depot more and adapt a session there to be in the back room as opposed to just doing lots of problems front-of-house.

Yup - go to the wall to do stuff that you're shit at...

I hate, but spend a disproportionately long time, working shitty sit starts and rock overs because I find them hard... when I was trying to get Weedkiller I even (yes I know its sad, but true) did some stamina work... because I had none..

[Doylo]

Plus if you actually get into a particular board you may find it addictive and actually fun. And if you can have fun whilst training that's half the battle.

[Oldmanmatt]

Plus if you actually get into a particular board you may find it addictive and actually fun. And if you can have fun whilst training that's half the battle.

You are Lore and I claim my prize.

[thekettle]

I'd second the  comment that the Training For Rock Climbing Manual is probably the best book to give you a clear understanding of the physical aspects of training and how to structure it to suit your goals. I'm assuming you want to self-teach rather than hire a coach to sort you out.
The other more holistic thing to consider at the start of an increase in physical training is getting a biomechanical assessment from a specialist before you start. Usually called a Functional Movement Assessment or something similar (a good physio will do it). These are where you find out your hamstrings are too short, or you're standing/breathing/moving wrong before it manifests as a chronic injury. May well save your back/neck/shoulder/elbows from grief later on.

[Dolly]

Please can I get the balance ball pdf as well ?
Thanks

[a dense loner]

+2 pls

[nai]

I'd like it as well if possible, please

[nai]

You may opt to hit the weights at some point, this is worth a read if so. I always do sh press, bench press, inverted rows one armed now and the pushup/row, aka Renegade Rows, are an absolute killer.

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1515405

[Nibile]

Plus if you actually get into a particular board you may find it addictive and actually fun. And if you can have fun whilst training that's half the battle.

You are Lore and I claim my prize.

Great minds think alike, you know.

[mctrials23]

I would also love to take a look at that PDF on core training. Just injured a finger and need something to occupy me while it gets better.

[Dexter]

Is it possible to upload/link the PDF as it seems there's a large demand for it?

[jwi]

I am not sure about the legalities. I prefer to not put it up on a public forum, and I certainly don't wish a takedown-notice upon the admins.

[cheque]

Is it this one?

[jwi]

yes, perfect!

[mrjonathanr]

Coach Sommers (he of Building the Gymnastic Body fame) references John Gill in interview with T nation about the merits of bodyweight exercises:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/all_muscle_no_iron

[Will Hunt]

Had a brief session on the fingerboard and bar last night and am working on bent knee leg raises with a view to progressing to leg raises (yep, core really is that bad). Also identified another weakness in that I think most of my finger strength comes from front two. Will mix in some deadhanging on the middle two to try and work on this.
Can anyone critique this session plan for me? It may be complete nonsense and it may be too much. I gauging this on what last night's short session felt like.

5 mins pulse raising (jogging on spot/star jumps/up and down stairs/generally making our neighbour wonder what the hell I'm doing) + a few easy hangs and pull ups on the bar.
5 mins stretching shoulder and arms (not sure what stretches to use for the core?)
5 mins easy hangs and pull ups on the easy slopers

3 sets of 5 reps hanging, bent knee, leg raises (or whereever I am in progression)
3 sets repeaters on front three. Starting on big holds and getting smaller
3 sets of 8 reps (or 5x5) leg raises as above
Deadhangs on middle two (what do I do here? Hangs of 15 secs seemed the max last night, just do max hangs seperated by 1 min rest?)
3 sets of 5 reps leg raises as above

5 mins easy hangs and pull ups on slopers
5/10 mins stretching



Also called in at the work gym to sign up this morning. Related to the post below I've been told to do some pilates, so will do the class there. They've got an expensive pull up bar type effort which allows you to add weight. I'm short on time in the evening but can often take an hour in the morning before starting work to use this facility. Obviously there is no fingerboard. Can anybody recommend some exercises to replace the fingerboard stuff above to work on gross power? Is it as simple as doing a load of pull ups and experimenting with adding weight on?

For perhaps the last winter I've had a bit of a niggling in my left shoulder. Since turning to filthy sport climbing this spring, this has started to flare up and tonight I have had to pass up the wall as I've felt it giving me pangs while sat at work today.

Its basically a pain that runs down the rear of my neck (left side) and down into my shoulder blade to a point that feels quite central in my shoulder. This doesn't really hurt while climbing, but after getting on the sport I've certainly noticed it in the days after. Particularly pronounced when I turn my head to the right.  After a session at Malham on Sunday it wasn't great. Went for an 'enthusiastic' swim last night (mainly breast stroke) and today its been pretty poor.

Any idea what this might be and what I ought to do to make amends? Thanks in advance for any help you can give!

Hi it sounds like the problem is coming from your neck more so than the shoulder. The cervical spine will refer pain in to the shoulder, shoulder blade area, arm and even in to the hand and fingers.
The fact that breast stroke irritated it probably means that the neck isn't liking excessive or repetitive extension ie looking up. In the daytime take care that you are not slumping when you sit which tends to promote a forward head position. Often climbers become stiff in their mid back regions and this can affect neck and shoulder positions/movements. Basically try to do some stretches for this area and be more aware of your posture.
I would recommend you see a physio as you have had this since the winter.
Regards
Matt

After studiously not getting round to seeing a physio this has now come to a head. In the past month I've had two "episodes" where I've felt a sudden jolt of pain in the muscle in question (girlfriend tells me its the trapezius) which then makes head movment left, right, up, and down very painful for a number of days. On each occasion this has been set off when drying my hair after getting out of the shower! NSAIDs seemed to help and I've been back climbing on it fairly quickly.
Aside from the 'episodes' I also had a lot of trouble whilst on holiday - long stretches driving the camper van causing short-term discomfort.
I'm off to see the physio tonight so will report back with their verdict. I suspect it is a posture thing (as suggested elsewhere on this thread) that could well be exacerbated by carrying heavy pads up long walk ins, playing the violin etc.
Hopefully will be told I can still climb and train and get some exercises for strenghthening.

So, not after advice as such, just wanted to provide follow up for anyone searching for similar ailments.

Posture posture posture. Got to get some lumbar support to make me sit up straight and do some exercises.

[tomtom]

Don't start doing everything at once.. sounds like you're starting excercises for your back/posture, finger strength on the fingerboard, core work somewhere else and working overhanging boards... Bring em in gently.. not all at once...

[dunnyg]

Why are you only training middle 2? I personally would go with back 3, remember some knowledge (from the beasmaker peeps) saying splitting hands front 3 and back 3 is useful. Strong pinkies are over rated. I think its less easy to tweak stuff with more fingers involved. Back 3 feels strange though!

I think once warmed upproperly, its best to start on repeaters, starting on your weakest grip, so shittest hold, or back 3 or whatever you want to do. (again beastmaker knowledge?).


Personally I would separate finger stuff from core. If you are having a finger session, do that, then tag core on the end, or do core another day. Make sure long enough rest is had between sets too for your finger business.


 Don't over train, it's hard when you are an eager beaver, apparently, and make sure you are warm as fuck.

For reference, I'm just getting back into the fingerboarding, I did 5 sets of 7 on 3 off for 6 reps, then did some max hangs on the slopers. Felt like a reasonable start. I think next time I will be doing back 3 and front 3 and similar and see where it goes from there. Hope that helps....

[duncan]

Don't stretch muscles before you train for strength.

Take longer over the warm-up. Do more sub-maximal hanging: from a bar, from the jugs, smaller holds with feet on, smaller holds for a very short duration.

As others have said, don't mix fingerboarding with abdominal exercises/leg raises: the focus of the fingerboarding should be on your fingers (and elbow and shoulder positions). You could consider doing the leg-raises hanging from a bar as part of your fingerboard warm-up.

[finbarrr]

Don't stretch muscles before you train for strength.

Take longer over the warm-up. Do more sub-maximal hanging: from a bar, from the jugs, smaller holds with feet on, smaller holds for a very short duration.

As others have said, don't mix fingerboarding with abdominal exercises/leg raises: the focus of the fingerboarding should be on your fingers (and elbow and shoulder positions). You could consider doing the leg-raises hanging from a bar as part of your fingerboard warm-up.

yeah, what he said.
i usually do lots of hangs, progressing from a few half-pull-ups (starting with bent elbows and not going all the way up) on jugs, via off-set-pull-ups to the smaller holds.
just walking around the room, shaking out, shadowboxing, doing a few push ups.

i think you can skip the jogging on the spot.
you could do some of those ball-excercizes during your warm up

[nathanie1]

To make leg-raises hanging from a bar more interesting, I have pieces of paper hanging from the ceiling in various, reachable, places and with each raise I slowly touch a different piece with a different foot. It makes for a more interesting set.

Alternatively, try and convince someone to stand on a chair and place their hand in various places for you to try and reach during each raise. 

[mctrials23]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

[jfdm]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

Same here, maybe steady for fraction of second, then flew off the ball!
Will try again next week.
Maybe work on side bridge without the ball? That's what I'm thinking?

[tomtom]

feet on ball or arm on ball?

[lagerstarfish]

let a bit of air out of the ball

[nathanie1]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

you could either put the ball against a wall/sofa, with your body perpendicular to said wall to add stability. Or part your legs with one foot forward and the other back. It shouldn't be long till your body is tuned into the wobbliness and you can beast it otherwise. 

[jwi]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

Your balance on the ball will improve rapidly. Its easier if you spread the legs a bit. Even easier if you keep your free hand on the ball. I had no big problems on that exercise (more problems on others). My better half could never do them properly last year. We just started up again, and this year she can do them just fine.

[jfdm]

Train safely this year!
If in doubt, less is more!
There's always next time!




 

[Gallant]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

I thought it was pretty difficult the first time I tried this, then realised if you place your elbow joint roughly near the middle, and palm down flat on the ball, you're somehow a fair old bit more stable? Maybe mind games, maybe helpful beta?

[Will Hunt]

Thought I'd share the core exercise session that the chap at work's gym helpfuly planned for me. Have done this twice now and it certainly gets the muscles in the core area working. Please feel free to critique this as I'm conscious that some of the exercises will not necessarily be climbing specific. Are there any that could be missed out/extended.

Back Squats - 3x15 - have pull up bar on shoudlers with small amount of weight (5kg or so)
Press ups - 3x10
Leg raises - 3x6
Toes to bar (not doing this yet. Waiting to progress up to it)
Knee raises - 3x10
Plank - 1min x 2
Side plank - 30 secs each side x 2
Iron Cross - 2/3 x 10 - not on the rings! Lie back on floor, arms out in crucifix position, legs up straight and slowly pendulum them left and right. Basically like a windscreen wiper but easier.
Mountain Climber Crossovers - 2x12 - Hold a press up position and try and touch your elbow with your opposite knee.
Hollow rocks - max hold x 2 - Basically lie on your back, lift your feet off the floor with straight legs and same with your arms to make a shallow dish shape in cross section.
Feet slides - 3x10? - Basically like a squat thrust but with a sheet of paper under your toes so your feet slide along the ground.

[mctrials23]

That looks fine but I think you will end up quite quickly exhausting the usefulness of that routine. Are you doing them with very little rest and only getting tired towards the end?

None of the individual exercises are particularly strenuous so I don't know how much stronger it will get you ultimately but if you can't do toes to bar yet then this could be a good way to move towards that baseline.

I'm sure there are some people on here much better placed to advise on this but core is pretty much all I will be doing for the next 2-3 weeks after buggering my A2 a week or so ago.

The exercise ball routine pdf seems quite good so far if you have one to use.

Front lever progressions on a bar are always a good place to start as well. That should hit the back and core too.

[Sasquatch]

Thought I'd share the core exercise session that the chap at work's gym helpfuly planned for me. Have done this twice now and it certainly gets the muscles in the core area working. Please feel free to critique this as I'm conscious that some of the exercises will not necessarily be climbing specific. Are there any that could be missed out/extended.

Back Squats - 3x15 - have pull up bar on shoudlers with small amount of weight (5kg or so)
Press ups - 3x10
Leg raises - 3x6
Toes to bar (not doing this yet. Waiting to progress up to it)
Knee raises - 3x10
Plank - 1min x 2
Side plank - 30 secs each side x 2
Iron Cross - 2/3 x 10 - not on the rings! Lie back on floor, arms out in crucifix position, legs up straight and slowly pendulum them left and right. Basically like a windscreen wiper but easier.
Mountain Climber Crossovers - 2x12 - Hold a press up position and try and touch your elbow with your opposite knee.
Hollow rocks - max hold x 2 - Basically lie on your back, lift your feet off the floor with straight legs and same with your arms to make a shallow dish shape in cross section.
Feet slides - 3x10? - Basically like a squat thrust but with a sheet of paper under your toes so your feet slide along the ground.

Sounds like a fairly standard gym view of core conditioning. Are you looking to strengthen or condition?
 
You're doing 25 sets of exercises so this is going be be really sub maximal, so by default you are doing more conditioning vs. strength.  This isn't a bad thing, and is likely a good way to start.  Do this for about 2 weeks (5-6 times in total), then move on to more strength based work. 

For pure core strength with access to weights, I'd say look at doing:
Front Squats - Abs, Low Back, Hamstrings, Glutes
Deadlifts - Low Back, Hamstrings, Glutes
1/2 moons (medicine ball, kettleball, or dumbell) - Abs, Obliques, Shoulders
GHD's - Upper and lower hamstrings
Ankles to Bar - Abs, lower lats
Front Levers - lower lats, low back, abs, shoulders
Dragon Flags - everything (at least it feels like that for me )

If you have access to rings, then ring planks are also excellent, with progressions into one arm ring plank.
Bird dogs (go into plank, then lift and point left arm forward while also lift and pointing with right leg back, and on opposite side) on the ring are nails.

Spend 3-4 sessions learning good basic form, then move to 3x5 or 5x3 of each at near max. 

[Will Hunt]

Stupid question: when you say maximal I assume you mean making gains in strength and when you say conditioning I guess you mean making gains in stamina/endurance?

I suppose some additional strength is necessary, but I would have thought my primary interest is conditioning. Providing my legs don't suddenly become really heavy then there is only so much effort that is required to get them up and on a high set of holds (I'm thinking gritstone roof climbing here) but conditioning would help keep them in play longer without feeling burnt out in the core. I'm sure having the core strength to pull front levers is fun but is it particularly climbing specific (I suspect that is a laughable question. All the beasts can do em)?

I've done that exercise routine twice now and it certainly doesn't make me sweat but I do struggle to finish some of the sets. Particularly leg raises on the second and third sets and the iron cross things. I'm doing it at a fairly relaxed pace, taking a rest of maybe a minute between sets and a couple of minutes between exercises, no idea if this is too much!

I guess your exercises there are more climbing specific, Sasquatch?

[mindfull]

You could try to see all over 1000 "strengthcamp" videos of Elliot Hulse about his 4 layers of strength and try to adapt them to climbing. I'm using them currently for powerlifting/strength training, and even running, but some principles have helped me also with climbing. I'm currently only climbing once or twice a week but applying some of his methodology actually let me climb at a higher standard while my training regime for climbing is minimal. Just an idea ...

[Sasquatch]

Stupid question: when you say maximal I assume you mean making gains in strength and when you say conditioning I guess you mean making gains in stamina/endurance?

Generally speaking - yes

I suppose some additional strength is necessary, but I would have thought my primary interest is conditioning. Providing my legs don't suddenly become really heavy then there is only so much effort that is required to get them up and on a high set of holds (I'm thinking gritstone roof climbing here) but conditioning would help keep them in play longer without feeling burnt out in the core. I'm sure having the core strength to pull front levers is fun but is it particularly climbing specific (I suspect that is a laughable question. All the beasts can do em)?

Are you climbing on a grit roof for more than 2-3 minutes?  If not, then you're probably much better off focusing on strength.  If you'd like we can get into the specifics, but increasing your maximal strength will naturally increase your submaximal endurance up to a point (hence why I ask about the time). 

Also, you mention the leg raises as being challenging and not doing ankles to bar yet, which tells me you seriously lack some aspect of core strength directly related to climbing(as you've mentioned).  And I don't think doing a bunch of side plank and plank is going to get you there. 

I guess your exercises there are more climbing specific, Sasquatch?

A little bit, but not really.  If you want more climbing specific, then check out some of Nib's videos for his climbing specific core work. 

What they are is targeted towards strength. 

I also forgot to mention how many exercises I'd do in a workout.  If/when I do targeted strength training (which I'll start a 4-week cycle in about 2 weeks), I'll do something like:

WU
Climbing WO
Strength WO:
3x3 Deadlift or GHD - Main goal is posterior Chain from Knee to mid back
3x4 Wtd Dips or Dumbell Flys - main goal is pecs and triceps for deep lockoffs and compression
3x5 One Leg Wtd Squats (full range of motion) or 3x5 Max height Box Jumps - Goals are explosive power in the legs and stability while pressing from a rockover position.
3x5 Dragon Flags or Ring Bird Dogs(hold for 2-5 seconds) - Abdominal and low back strength and core stability
3x8 Kneeling 1/2 Moons or Russian Twists - Obliques and Abdominals
3x12 Shoulder strengthening - researching this now to determine where I want to take this....

[chris j]

If you have access to kettlebells, one exercise you might want to consider that I find good for 'core' and for shoulder stabilizers is the Turkish Get-Up. All the rage on power club a year or two back IIRC.

[mrjonathanr]

+1 for this exercise.

Done with a fairly heavy dumbell this feels excellent for shoulder stability. Seems good for everything else too as while 1 rep feels ok by 6 I'm having to dig deep.

[duncan]

A little bit, but not really.  If you want more climbing specific, then check out some of Nib's videos for his climbing specific core work. 

What they are is targeted towards strength. 

I also forgot to mention how many exercises I'd do in a workout.  If/when I do targeted strength training (which I'll start a 4-week cycle in about 2 weeks), I'll do something like:

WU
Climbing WO
Strength WO:
3x3 Deadlift or GHD - Main goal is posterior Chain from Knee to mid back
3x4 Wtd Dips or Dumbell Flys - main goal is pecs and triceps for deep lockoffs and compression
3x5 One Leg Wtd Squats (full range of motion) or 3x5 Max height Box Jumps - Goals are explosive power in the legs and stability while pressing from a rockover position.
3x5 Dragon Flags or Ring Bird Dogs(hold for 2-5 seconds) - Abdominal and low back strength and core stability
3x8 Kneeling 1/2 Moons or Russian Twists - Obliques and Abdominals
3x12 Shoulder strengthening - researching this now to determine where I want to take this....

This seems a good mix if you're aiming to increase basic trunk and leg muscle strength in a manner somewhat applicable to climbing. Low reps and high loads so appropriate for bouldering. As 'basic' abdominal exercises go, Dragon flags look fairly specific to climbing; mind your neck and upper back. Perhaps the Russian twists could be replaced by something like hanging leg raises? Not convinced of the utility of deadlifting!

What are the aims of shoulder strengthening? Improving strength transferable to climbing or injury prevention or something else?

[Sasquatch]

This seems a good mix if you're aiming to increase basic trunk and leg muscle strength in a manner somewhat applicable to climbing. Low reps and high loads so appropriate for bouldering. As 'basic' abdominal exercises go, Dragon flags look fairly specific to climbing; mind your neck and upper back. Perhaps the Russian twists could be replaced by something like hanging leg raises? Not convinced of the utility of deadlifting!

What are the aims of shoulder strengthening? Improving strength transferable to climbing or injury prevention or something else?

The goal of the russian twists or half moons are aiming at targeted the obliques.  I think these tend to get overlooked and, unless you're really lanky, are key to locking off deeply. As such i wouldn't skip them. 

The shoulders are a work in progress for myself, so i'm not totally sure.  I think i'll be doing a combination of strength and stability work.  Probably a couple of iron cross type movements on the rings, and then something along the lines of I's, Y's, T's. 

Keep in mind, I tend to do these workouts in conjunction with either FB or campus cycles where my fingers/arms/pull muscles are getting strengthened, but no overall body work. 

[the_dom]

I'll second the recommendations for deadlifts and Turkish get-ups - they really are excellent general strength exercises that transfer well to climbing. That said, I would add dumbbell snatches, kettlebell swings and squat or tuck jumps to a climbing-focused weights session for a little more dynamic movement.

[the_dom]

My limited understanding is that there's not really a correct technique bar which knee you 'lead' with, which is on the same side as the arm you are raising.

[mrjonathanr]

It would be quite tricky leading with the other one.

I just stand up and lie down again maintaining the arm vertical.  Using a weight you find heavy sorts out the rest.

[hamsforlegs]

is it just a loosely defined lying to standing transition thing, that you have done correctly as long as you kept your arm raised with the weight throughout?  Or is there strict form...

Loosely defined is right I think, but mrjonathanr has a good point that everyone ends up with the same pattern/technique once the weight gets heavy.

A couple of prominent therapist/coach types developed a more prescriptive 'kalos sthenos' variation which trains specific motor patterns, and this now seems to be a reference point.

Personally I think it's work learning the kalos version - I've found it shows up developing imbalances, tweaks and weaknesses in shoulders/hips etc, and gives a simple way to focus on and correct the same.

If you just want to develop sheer horsepower and grit, try long sets of getups with a massive sandbag over shoulders/chest. Not so applicable to climbing though...