[Paul B]

Those recent posts on Instagram of her looking incredibly ripped are pretty impressive. I'm reading Ste Mac's book at the mo, where he talks a lot about what it means to be a 'professional climber' of an 'athlete'. Puccio looks like an athlete.

You think? I disagree.

I think when you start seeing a difference in the face then you've pushed it too far (not necessarily a bad thing for your climbing performance).

I'm not a woman but I can't think that sustaining that level of body fat percentage can be a good thing as one. Take a look at the photograph showing a plank, the definition around the serratus and the upper pectorals and then the photo of her doing an external rotation.

That isn't some kind of sexist "what women should look like" remark either. I genuinely think it's unhealthy. Frustratingly it works so well.

[Doylo]

Those recent posts on Instagram of her looking incredibly ripped are pretty impressive. I'm reading Ste Mac's book at the mo, where he talks a lot about what it means to be a 'professional climber' of an 'athlete'. Puccio looks like an athlete.

I'm not a woman

God I wish you were 

[Nibile]

Those recent posts on Instagram of her looking incredibly ripped are pretty impressive. I'm reading Ste Mac's book at the mo, where he talks a lot about what it means to be a 'professional climber' of an 'athlete'. Puccio looks like an athlete.

You think? I disagree.

I think when you start seeing a difference in the face then you've pushed it too far (not necessarily a bad thing for your climbing performance).

I'm not a woman but I can't think that sustaining that level of body fat percentage can be a good thing as one. Take a look at the photograph showing a plank, the definition around the serratus and the upper pectorals and then the photo of her doing an external rotation.

That isn't some kind of sexist "what women should look like" remark either. I genuinely think it's unhealthy. Frustratingly it works so well.

I completely agree.
That's a very dangerous and thin line to walk.

[T_B]

That isn't some kind of sexist "what women should look like" remark either. I genuinely think it's unhealthy. Frustratingly it works so well.

Are you sure? How do you feel about pro cyclists' physiques? Of course it's a thin line, but in any sport where power - weight is very important, the top athletes push as close to the line as possible to achieve their best performances. Good on her I say - it takes a lot of commitment and discipline.

[Nibile]

Using cyclists as an example on how to deal with performance and health issues isn't a very good point in my opinion...
 

[Stubbs]

edit: I'm staying out of this!

[cowboyhat]

Isn't this debate already going somewhere else on the forum?

Anyway it should split from here.

Stevie Haston plus accompanying Charlotte dURIF piece about anorexia in climbing

http://steviehaston.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/anorexia-drugs-and-no-rational-control.html

[Johnny Brown]

I prefer to think you can separate athleticism for the sake of performance from starvation for its own sake. But when the other side see parallels, you worry:

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/06/25/climb-every-mountain-a-metaphor-for-eating-disorders/

[fatdoc]

Using cyclists as an example on how to deal with performance and health issues isn't a very good point in my opinion...
 

Yeah, was gonna post the same, not just the headline hitting drug and substance use.


The thin line these astonishing athletes tread... Quotes of "you can see there kidneys" , short life expectancy, high cardiovascular risk in later life with increased heart attack, stoke and ischimic guts rates. It's pretty much accepted the super pro roadies have shorter than the norm life expectancy.. With servere body fat depletion being part of the picture.

[T_B]

I prefer to think you can separate athleticism for the sake of performance from starvation for its own sake. But when the other side see parallels, you worry:

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/06/25/climb-every-mountain-a-metaphor-for-eating-disorders/

Have you actually read the article? It's tenuous pap. You could say the same about doing anything "to extreme" whether it be working 80hr weeks or shopping. The risk analogy seems like total bollocks to me, especially when high performance climbers for whom power to weight is of most relevance are boulderers and sport climbers.

[Johnny Brown]

Yeah, it's nonsense, but the fact they looked in our direction is a bit worrying.

[shark]

Isn't this debate already going somewhere else on the forum?

Anyway it should split from here.

Give me a thread title or another thread to merge it with and I'll do it - I have lost confidence in my own judgement after recent cock-ups

[csurfleet]

That blog is talking complete bollocks. Maybe it would be worth talking to a person involved in an activity before deciding on your own that it is just a way of ignoring how shitty your life is otherwise, rather than a source of joy and inspiration. Coming from a group who often claim to be the subject of assumptions over facts themselves its a tad rich.

[Reprobate_Rob]

Although all of this is indeed repetitive, none of it is significant.

How about sticking it all in here instead? - http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=23595.0

[shark]

Although all of this is indeed repetitive, none of it is significant.

How about sticking it all in here instead? - http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=23595.0

 

That thread is old (and tricky to find for a merge) so started a Part 2 version

[Paul B]

Are you sure? How do you feel about pro cyclists' physiques? Of course it's a thin line, but in any sport where power - weight is very important, the top athletes push as close to the line as possible to achieve their best performances. Good on her I say - it takes a lot of commitment and discipline.

I've thought about this and my answer is yes, I'm sure. However, perhaps there are just more obvious signs in women that they may be pushing the dieting thing too far.

There's also the issue of what this suggests to other people in the 'sport'. When I was young I watched videos of Ben and Jerry climbing hard and training on steep boards; this resulted in a long period of ignoring all of the time they spent on rock and pursuing training on steep boards.

The youth of today see the likes of Nedvarian hanging off bits of wood for long periods of time, and what happens? Youths of today ignore all of the other factors and go on to do pinky monos before they've climbed the Marie Rose.

If the same can be said for dieting tactics then I'd be concerned.

[mrjonathanr]

The Ms blogpost makes a good point about judgments being contextualised but I couldn't take it too seriously when its central analogy was founded on ignorance. That's really amateurish.  Shoddy argument doesn't impress.

[webbo]

Using cyclists as an example on how to deal with performance and health issues isn't a very good point in my opinion...
 

Yeah, was gonna post the same, not just the headline hitting drug and substance use.


The thin line these astonishing athletes tread... Quotes of "you can see there kidneys" , short life expectancy, high cardiovascular risk in later life with increased heart attack, stoke and ischimic guts rates. It's pretty much accepted the super pro roadies have shorter than the norm life expectancy.. With servere body fat depletion being part of the picture.

I've recently read an article in Cycling Plus which states the opposite to this in that a significant number of ex pros live longer than average.

[slackline]

Using cyclists as an example on how to deal with performance and health issues isn't a very good point in my opinion...
 

Yeah, was gonna post the same, not just the headline hitting drug and substance use.


The thin line these astonishing athletes tread... Quotes of "you can see there kidneys" , short life expectancy, high cardiovascular risk in later life with increased heart attack, stoke and ischimic guts rates. It's pretty much accepted the super pro roadies have shorter than the norm life expectancy.. With servere body fat depletion being part of the picture.

I've recently read an article in Cycling Plus which states the opposite to this in that a significant number of ex pros live longer than average.

Sanchis-Gomar F, Olaso-Gonzalez G, Corella D, Gomez-Cabrera MC, Vina J. (2011) Increased average longevity among the "Tour de France" cyclists. Int J Sports Med. 2011 Aug;32(:644-7. doi: 10.1055/s-0031-1271711. Epub 2011 May 26.

[jwi]

Its different for different sports innit? Anabolic-androgenic steroids shorten life expectancy

Increased premature mortality of competitive powerlifters suspected to have used anabolic agents

[steveri]

Nothing useful to add other than what a desperately difficult subject it is. A woman friend (I should probably be careful I don't out her) is a fantastic runner. England vest material. She was never sturdy but has gone through an impressive transformation to get there. I'm pretty sure she has an eating disorder. Likewise this pic of Wiggo scares me https://www.flickr.com/photos/slipstreamsports/3434625727/ Measured by results, they're both quality athletes...

[Nibile]

Nothing useful to add other than what a desperately difficult subject it is. A woman friend (I should probably be careful I don't out her) is a fantastic runner. England vest material. She was never sturdy but has gone through an impressive transformation to get there. I'm pretty sure she has an eating disorder. Likewise this pic of Wiggo scares me https://www.flickr.com/photos/slipstreamsports/3434625727/

[fatdoc]

Using cyclists as an example on how to deal with performance and health issues isn't a very good point in my opinion...
 

Yeah, was gonna post the same, not just the headline hitting drug and substance use.


The thin line these astonishing athletes tread... Quotes of "you can see there kidneys" , short life expectancy, high cardiovascular risk in later life with increased heart attack, stoke and ischimic guts rates. It's pretty much accepted the super pro roadies have shorter than the norm life expectancy.. With servere body fat depletion being part of the picture.

I've recently read an article in Cycling Plus which states the opposite to this in that a significant number of ex pros live longer than average.

Sanchis-Gomar F, Olaso-Gonzalez G, Corella D, Gomez-Cabrera MC, Vina J. (2011) Increased average longevity among the "Tour de France" cyclists. Int J Sports Med. 2011 Aug;32(:644-7. doi: 10.1055/s-0031-1271711. Epub 2011 May 26.

 Nice one. I'll tuck into that.

[scottygillery]

I'm not the best person to make this argument but I'll try... It's seems to me that people on here either don't want to admit or are in denial that there is a problem with weight in climbing.

That blog comparing extreme mountaineering to easting disorders is just a distraction from the more damning truth that many climbers do have eating disorders.

You don't have to go far to hear climbers talking about weight-loss, weekly weigh-ins, not eating cake, shedding pounds for the project.

These things are not in themselves unhealthy, and in fact for the average person that list above might be the healthy option. Which is the trick behind the lie. Things that are considered healthy and normal can be pushed to the extreme and in this way climbers convince themselves that they are still being healthy.

Many commonly conceived as healthy activities within the climbing community would not be considered as such by outsiders.
Going out all day climbing and not eating. Not healthy.
Someone above mentions copying your heroes. Well Jerry and Ben surviving on 1500 Cal a day. also not ideal.
Starving and dehydrating before a big redpoint. Obvious that one I think.

I remember meeting a group of friends i'd not seen for a while at a crag, they'd all improved a lot recently (7a to 7c). They also now looked decidedly unhealthy; pale skulls, nestled within oversized puffer jackets atop twiglet legs. Am I the only person who sees this at the crags? or are we just not talking about it?

I agree with points made by Haston and Durriff that eating disorders are a problem in climbing and that the lack or media attention paid to it is letting us down. We should be looking out for each other.

[Nibile]

Too true.
I'm waiting for my usual climbing partner to come over for a session, so that I can finally talk with him about his weight obsession. 6 kg lost since summer, pushed his grade up by a letter, but that's a complete fake.
Also, he's less smiley and can only talk about climbing, while before our conversation was an added bonus to every trip or session.
We are all puzzled by his change, his wife is puzzled, his brother also...