[Luke Owens]

Cheers guys, I'll try and open hand as much as possible. Does this also mean if I really have to crimp then half crimp instead or full?

Is it actually possible to open hand a tiny edge...? That might sound like a punter thing to say but I'm so used to crimping everything that the thought of open handing a "crimpy hold" seems alien to me.

It seems that even though it doesn't feel painful or like there is any issue there when at rest, the inside edge of my forearm (palm up) near the elbow was super tender to massage. The other arm in the same place was fine so I assume its another place in my forearms that is angry and annoyed.

The majority of the time when I'm at rest I don't feel any problem with my forearms unless I start proding around, massaging and stretching.

Anyone got any designs for a home made armaid? Old laundry mangle may be excessive, two rolling pins and some bungy cords probably safer.

I've currently resorted to a can of peas of its side on a worktop, roll the forearm on top of it while applying pressure on top with the other hand.

[SA Chris]

Cheers guys, I'll try and open hand as much as possible. Does this also mean if I really have to crimp then half crimp instead or full?

Is it actually possible to open hand a tiny edge...? That might sound like a punter thing to say but I'm so used to crimping everything that the thought of open handing a "crimpy hold" seems alien to me.

I always open hand whenever I can, but if you you need to crimp, crimp! I had to go through a relearning process after climbing almost exclusively on crimpy quartzite and sandstone for the early years of my climbing career and once in the habit of open hnaidng, I'm surprised how rarely I have to crimp.

[petejh]

I've currently resorted to a can of peas of its side on a worktop, roll the forearm on top of it while applying pressure on top with the other hand.

  Let me know next time you're up this way (Llandudno) and I'll leave my armaid in the porch for you to pick up if I'm not in. Can give it a try for a week. A can of peas doesn't work half as well, especially own brand.

[SA Chris]

Works better than canapes though.

[Paul B]

I bought a 'Spikey' from the Physio Room and subsequently I was bought a much spikier (and firmer) ball for Christmas off of someone who wasn't put off by the outrageous price of what appears to be a dog toy.

They're both good and for the price a Lacross ball or Spikey (3 sizes available) seem like a good investment as with bodyweight you can get into muscles quite well. Perhaps a foam roller and lying on it in a Randall-esque stretch position might work (I don't have one so I can't comment, this is purely speculative)?

Luke - I used to crimp absolutley everything. I can remember being laughed at by my belayer for shaking out on the Pantomime jug fully crimped. If you don't know this hold it resembles a glued on breeze block and there's no reason to hold it like this. Although I thought that crimping and being relatively strong at the grip was great it really did hold me back and caused me a lot of problems (mainly finger injuries) in the following years.

[TheTwig]

Anyone got any designs for a home made armaid? Old laundry mangle may be excessive, two rolling pins and some bungy cords probably safer.

Lacrosse ball and then lie on your arm, or press into it against a wall etc. I used to put my arm on a ball on a desk or floor and then put pretty much all my weight onto it. Gnarly.

[Luke Owens]

I've currently resorted to a can of peas of its side on a worktop, roll the forearm on top of it while applying pressure on top with the other hand.

  Let me know next time you're up this way (Llandudno) and I'll leave my armaid in the porch for you to pick up if I'm not in. Can give it a try for a week. A can of peas doesn't work half as well, especially own brand.

Cheers Pete, will give you a shout when I'm down your way, possibly this weekend as I'm out.

I bought a 'Spikey' from the Physio Room and subsequently I was bought a much spikier (and firmer) ball for Christmas off of someone who wasn't put off by the outrageous price of what appears to be a dog toy.

They're both good and for the price a Lacross ball or Spikey (3 sizes available) seem like a good investment as with bodyweight you can get into muscles quite well. Perhaps a foam roller and lying on it in a Randall-esque stretch position might work (I don't have one so I can't comment, this is purely speculative)?

I'll look into that, cheers. Does seem like a good investment.

Luke - I used to crimp absolutley everything. I can remember being laughed at by my belayer for shaking out on the Pantomime jug fully crimped. If you don't know this hold it resembles a glued on breeze block and there's no reason to hold it like this. Although I thought that crimping and being relatively strong at the grip was great it really did hold me back and caused me a lot of problems (mainly finger injuries) in the following years.

  That sounds just like me. So have you quit the habit now? If so how did you feel it changed your climbing/injuries?

A question for anyone: When deeply massaging should it hurt? Some of you are saying about applying body weight to balls which sounds really painful! Also, should the area feel tender/worked afterwards?

Cheers

[Paul B]

That sounds just like me. So have you quit the habit now? If so how did you feel it changed your climbing/injuries?

When you crimp everything, including jugs then everything feels like a jug.

-when I used to think like this what I was missing was actually, everything feels like a bloody crimp!

I have addressed the imbalance to a degree yes, and it has definitely helped. However, I did give myself my worst ever injury* shortly after really targetting the weakness on a BM. Having progressed rapidly whilst deadhanging I thought I was a hero at the tor, catching the crimp on powerhumps/other linkup open (mid 2). I pulled through and felt something rupture in the palm of my hand (this has left a significant lump that has degenerated with Dupytrytens [sp?]).

It has taken a fair number of years to achieve a decent balance between grip types although there's still a weakness. It takes time. I avoid pockets (especially if deadhanging) these days mainly as training the back half of my hand aggravates my contractures.

Without wishing to hijack this thread (I think it's sort of relevant) - does the new MacLeod book offer any new/interesting stuff on finger injuries beyond what is readily available on UKB/the Internetz?


*finger

[SA Chris]

I'll let you know when I've read it. Not got beyond the chapter on elbows yet (which revelated little that isn't on UKB / tinternet).

[Luke Owens]

shortly after really targetting the weakness on a BM. Having progressed rapidly whilst deadhanging

I guess you made fast progress from dedicating open handed specific deadhangs because you previously only crimped?

I should do this really, I've mixed open handing into BM sessions before but mainly do a lot of half crimped stuff. Strangely enough on a fingerboard I'm actually stronger open handed and can add a lot more weight than I can half crimped; yet when I climb my brain just automatically crimps because it feels more secure, when in reality it's probably just a bad habit. In my head it doesn't make sense to open hand something that is in cut...

Without wishing to hijack this thread (I think it's sort of relevant) - does the new MacLeod book offer any new/interesting stuff on finger injuries beyond what is readily available on UKB/the Internetz?

Funnily enough I was actually going to ask this too. Good question.

Cheers

[cheque]

A question for anyone: When deeply massaging should it hurt? Some of you are saying about applying body weight to balls which sounds really painful! Also, should the area feel tender/worked afterwards?

It's going to hurt if you've got tight forearms yes. As you slacken them off it will get much more comfortable. When I first went to the physio with my finger injuries I was writhing in agony when he was massaging my forearms. When he told me to massage them every day I asked how I'd know if I was hitting the right spot and he cheerfully told me "where it hurts!". 5 months on there's barely even any discomfort.

[Willy]

Without wishing to hijack this thread (I think it's sort of relevant) - does the new MacLeod book offer any new/interesting stuff on finger injuries beyond what is readily available on UKB/the Internetz?


*finger

Hard to say really I haven't spent a lot of time looking in to Dupytrytens online, the only suggested solutions in Dave Mac's book are:

-Radiotherapy probably have to go private.
-Collagenase injections to destroy the fibrous cord
-Needle aponeurotomy basically stabbing it with a fuck off needle?

I'd probably ask a Doctor before stabbing myself with fuck off needles :D

[SA Chris]

I think Paul's asking about finger injuries in general, rather than Dupuytren's specifically.

[Sasquatch]

A question for anyone: When deeply massaging should it hurt? Some of you are saying about applying body weight to balls which sounds really painful! Also, should the area feel tender/worked afterwards?

It's going to hurt if you've got tight forearms yes. As you slacken them off it will get much more comfortable. When I first went to the physio with my finger injuries I was writhing in agony when he was massaging my forearms. When he told me to massage them every day I asked how I'd know if I was hitting the right spot and he cheerfully told me "where it hurts!". 5 months on there's barely even any discomfort.

This.

[Luke Owens]

It's going to hurt if you've got tight forearms yes. As you slacken them off it will get much more comfortable. When I first went to the physio with my finger injuries I was writhing in agony when he was massaging my forearms. When he told me to massage them every day I asked how I'd know if I was hitting the right spot and he cheerfully told me "where it hurts!". 5 months on there's barely even any discomfort.

This is great, thanks.

After going to town on the massaging It seems the most painful part of my arm is the place which is classed as having Golfers Elbow. I got my other half to dig into that area yesterday as I find it difficult inflicting pain on myself... she on the other hand seemed to find it funny!

It was agony, afterwards and today it seems even more sore than before. Does anyone know if this is normal and actually a good thing?

Cheers

[Sasquatch]

Yes, it's get better.  Keep at it.    Like a new hard exercise.  You get DOMS at first, but then your body adapts. 

[SA Chris]

Go read that Julian Saunders article you looked at again, and try the stretch for tight Brachioradialis. This really helped me when I thought I had Golfer's Elbow, when in actual fact this was just overtight. His diagram isn't great for shwoing where things are tbh.

[Luke Owens]

Much appreciated guys, thank you!

[Luke Owens]

I finally got a letter through about my referral and went for a consultation today (6 months after seeing the GP!) He asked loads of questions moved me around a bit and said exactly what I basically confirmed what I already thought was wrong.

Tight muscles in the forearm are causing nerve impingement which is in turn causing the numbness when I'm sleeping. He said to just carry on with what I'm doing stretching etc. and I've been referred to physio which will apparently take about 2 months...! I've heard I can get free physio through work so I'm going to look into that.

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this whole problem effects by sport climbing more than bouldering? My guess is the fact that the short number of moves on boulders don't give the muscles chance to tighten to much and restrict bloodflow? Maybe why I get cramped on routes? All a bit of a guess but it's intriguing.

[SA Chris]

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this whole problem effects by sport climbing more than bouldering? My guess is the fact that the short number of moves on boulders don't give the muscles chance to tighten to much and restrict bloodflow? Maybe why I get cramped on routes?

Where my money would lie. Do you ever get pumped during the first ten moves on a route? A someone said earlier, you might also be (subconsciously?) gripping harder than you need to when you are on a route compared to bouldering.

[Schnell]

Anyone got any designs for a home made armaid? Old laundry mangle may be excessive, two rolling pins and some bungy cords probably safer.

Any other suggestions on this? I remember seeing an armaid ages ago and thinking 'I can definitely make one of those' but I've never come up with a proper design. I get a lot of pain and tension on the outside of my forearm, the flexor carpi ulnaris I think, and find it difficult to massage with a ball or foam roller because it requires turning the arm in a weird way.

[Luke Owens]

Anyone got any designs for a home made armaid? Old laundry mangle may be excessive, two rolling pins and some bungy cords probably safer.

the flexor carpi ulnaris I think,

My last few posts above were about this. I'm deep massaging with a golf ball at the moment. It's incredibly painful but I've convinced myself it will help...

Where my money would lie. Do you ever get pumped during the first ten moves on a route? A someone said earlier, you might also be (subconsciously?) gripping harder than you need to when you are on a route compared to bouldering.

I'm pumped after about 5 moves... I get pretty pumped on warm ups even if I make a conscious effort not to over grip. I probably do over grip on harder stuff though, I'm out later this evening so I'm going to analyse what I do out of habit a bit more, and try and loosen my grip as much as possible.

I don't think I've ever redpointed something with ease, It's always a fight against the pump/cramp irrelevant of grade. My mates often find it funny that my forearms look like they are about to explode after a hard (for me) route.

[SA Chris]

I'm the opposite, when I get pumped my forearms feel like bricks, but look completely normal. I never seem to have developed the enormous pumped out veins like other people do.

[Schnell]

Anyone got any designs for a home made armaid? Old laundry mangle may be excessive, two rolling pins and some bungy cords probably safer.

the flexor carpi ulnaris I think,

My last few posts above were about this. I'm deep massaging with a golf ball at the moment. It's incredibly painful but I've convinced myself it will help...

Right thanks, I misunderstood, I thought you're problem was with palm up side of forearm.

[mindfull]

Anyone got any designs for a home made armaid? Old laundry mangle may be excessive, two rolling pins and some bungy cords probably safer.

the flexor carpi ulnaris I think,

My last few posts above were about this. I'm deep massaging with a golf ball at the moment. It's incredibly painful but I've convinced myself it will help...

Where my money would lie. Do you ever get pumped during the first ten moves on a route? A someone said earlier, you might also be (subconsciously?) gripping harder than you need to when you are on a route compared to bouldering.

I'm pumped after about 5 moves... I get pretty pumped on warm ups even if I make a conscious effort not to over grip. I probably do over grip on harder stuff though, I'm out later this evening so I'm going to analyse what I do out of habit a bit more, and try and loosen my grip as much as possible.

I don't think I've ever redpointed something with ease, It's always a fight against the pump/cramp irrelevant of grade. My mates often find it funny that my forearms look like they are about to explode after a hard (for me) route.

Maybe try some endurance (30+ reps) reverse curls and hammer curls. See how your recuperation from them goes, and see over a training period, if you make improvements.
What I'm proposing here is to isolate the forearms with some weights and see what works and what not. With climbing you're always stabilizing some moves more than others with shoulder/chest/triceps/biceps. Just an idea.

(The idea comes from my rotator cuff injury, I had no problems with pulling weights, but had a lot with pushing weights. Although I had no strict pulling problems, when I was climbing I had alot of problems with pain in the rotaror cuff, which was the key to finding exercises which help me to stay in shape, excluding as much involvement of the rotaror cuff. That is issue we try to resolve now with mobility/electrostimul/cortisone/rest.)