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Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue (Read 31515 times)

Giles F

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#25 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 09, 2014, 02:50:52 pm
That's the one, the pictures you're talking about were all on the projector screen! It's useful reading though, from a prevention point of view as well as cure.

Giles F

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#26 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 09, 2014, 05:33:11 pm
I've just checked, it's called 'Compartment Syndrome', apparently many doctors would not expect to see it in forearms. Positively diagnosing it also seems to be tricky. Therapy includes, stretching, massage, ice and got and cold showers!

mctrials23

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#27 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 09, 2014, 05:59:16 pm
Yep, that or surgery to open the sheath and relieve the pressure. This is what I thought I might have for a while but the physio discounted it and finding the knots in the muscle and ironing them out seems to have helped. I assume though, as with all injuries it can be a combination of problems as well as varying severities. It may be that you have a mild case of compartment syndrome.

If you read most literature on it online though it points towards surgery to fix it.

Giles F

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#28 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 09, 2014, 06:52:23 pm
I didn't want to be the bringer of such bad news, I thought maybe the OP might want to hear that from a doctor, if indeed that's what he's suffering from. But yes, surgery seems to be the hot ticket.

Luke Owens

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#29 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 09, 2014, 08:44:01 pm
I've heard of that book before, might try and get my hands on it. I don't live near Sheffield unfortunately. Thanks for the offer to lend it though.

I've heard of compartment syndrome and read a bit about it, I'll speak to the specialist about it and see what they say first.

I remember seeing a climbing blog online somewhere in which the person had surgery and never climbed again.

I won't be having surgery even if it's recommended, I'd rather try all other methods for however long over choosing that option.

mctrials23

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#30 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 09, 2014, 08:52:09 pm
When I was researching my forearm issues I heard various stories about people climbing perfectly well after the surgery and others giving it up.

Have a look at: https://www.scribd.com/doc/166814426/One-Move-Too-Many

You can get a months subscription for free and download it I think so have a look.

The picture in the book mentions that one of the authors had it and had the surgery and still climbs fine. His forearm is pretty odd but I assume its not a death sentence climbing wise.

Good luck and yeah, make sure you get a proper diagnosis. As it says in the book, they can do a pressure test to see how quickly the pressure reduces after the forearm becomes pumped.

Luke Owens

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#31 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 10, 2014, 08:33:06 am
Thanks, I'll check that link out later.

I forgot to mention I'm also going for a blood test to check mineral levels like Nibs said previously.

One observation I've made is my bouldering performance has never been effected by the forearm tightness/ache. I've always been able to boulder at my limit yet my sport climbing varies considerably.

mctrials23

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#32 Re: Tight Forearms and Circulation Issue
December 10, 2014, 09:14:48 am
I never found issues in my forearms limited my pure strength that much, they simply meant that I fatigued much faster than I should have. Almost all my issues were in my right arm and it was quite noticeable how much quicker that side pumped out and how much slower it recovered from exertion.

Have you given your forearms a good massage looking for any knots near the elbow?

Luke Owens

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Bit of an update. I've been fine for awhile due to not doing routes and just bouldering a lot. As I said previously, this tightness never seems to effect my bouldering/power unless It's a long problem/traverse. I've started up on the routes again recently and low and behold the problem is back.

It seems that the problem is that my forearms are just really tight and getting pumped on routes seems to make this worse. I'm guessing that's the reason having long rests between sessions helps me as it gave my muscles chance to relax and ease off?

Few questions, why does muscle tightness occur, is it something that I'm doing wrong/not doing that causes it?

This level of tightness can't be normal as it's boarderline painful to stretch out my forearms at times, is it something that you can actually get rid permanently of by doing lots of stretching/massaging or is it just something I have to put up with?

Any info on muscle tightness would be great.

Can't remember if I mentioned it but my blood test came back normal and I'm still waiting to hear from the hospital about that appointment... Should chase that up really.

Cheers

SA Chris

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I'm no physiologist but...

As far as I understand it if you do any exercise that will develop muscle fibres and grow the muscles it also causes them to shorten which will cause tightness in the muscle unless you stretch it. So I believe it's a good idea to do some stretching, as muscle tightness may not only be causing the circulation issue, but might also be cause other problems like the tennis elbow mentioned.

I always get pumped on longer steep climbs, but never do on boudering or anything around vertical or slabby. I would have thought this is common for most people, it's the relatively longer routes where the problem lies.

I've just had a physio diagnose my tennis elbow as being partially caused by my hunched shoulders and crap posture. Surprise surprise!

a dense loner

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You'll be overgripping cos you're shitting bricks, if people tell you anything else expect to pay them

lagerstarfish

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climb easier routes, but more of them

£379 please

petejh

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If you're not regularly massaging your forearms then I'd start and see if it helps. There's a good vid that shows a simple self-massge and trigger point release, will post it when i get home.
Alternatively, try an armaid. I recently purchased one to see if it would help my tennis elbow which is caused by overtight extensors - it does. You can borrow mine for a few days to try it out.

Lacrosse ball does the same but just a little more finnicky, still £85 cheaper ...

Luke Owens

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climb easier routes, but more of them

£379 please

Haha, does that advice come with a warrenty??

I'm no physiologist but...

As far as I understand it if you do any exercise that will develop muscle fibres and grow the muscles it also causes them to shorten which will cause tightness in the muscle unless you stretch it. So I believe it's a good idea to do some stretching, as muscle tightness may not only be causing the circulation issue, but might also be cause other problems like the tennis elbow mentioned.

I always get pumped on longer steep climbs, but never do on boudering or anything around vertical or slabby. I would have thought this is common for most people, it's the relatively longer routes where the problem lies.

I've just had a physio diagnose my tennis elbow as being partially caused by my hunched shoulders and crap posture. Surprise surprise!

I get pumped/cramped on any angle of climb...

I presume that's why light Aerocap helps recovery, increased blood flow etc.

Luke Owens

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If you're not regularly massaging your forearms then I'd start and see if it helps. There's a good vid that shows a simple self-massge and trigger point release, will post it when i get home.
Alternatively, try an armaid. I recently purchased one to see if it would help my tennis elbow which is caused by overtight extensors - it does. You can borrow mine for a few days to try it out.

Lacrosse ball does the same but just a little more finnicky, still £85 cheaper ...

Cheers Pete, I'm not regulary massaging just occasionaly but I'm guessing this should be done often to actually have any effect?

I did look at the armaid but was scepticle especially due to the price, if it works I'll have to look into it. I'll have a look at the Lacrosse ball too, not heard of that before.

Sport season is almost here and I need to sort myself out!

Sasquatch

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I find it strange to think of climbers not regularly massaging their forearms.  I do it every day, all day, especially when I'm doing PE type training- either AeroPow or AnCap.  My forearms are sore the next day so I automatically stretch and massage them throughout the day.  When I'm doing strength training I don't tend to feel it in my forearms as much, more in the fingers so I massage my fingers constantly.  It's like an itch.  They feel abnormal so I can't help but do something. 

Sometimes its just a light 15-20 seconds of massage randomly throughout the day, and sometimes(when they're really sore) It's a dedicated several minutes on each arm several times during the day. 

Luke Owens

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I find it strange to think of climbers not regularly massaging their forearms.  I do it every day, all day, especially when I'm doing PE type training- either AeroPow or AnCap.  My forearms are sore the next day so I automatically stretch and massage them throughout the day.  When I'm doing strength training I don't tend to feel it in my forearms as much, more in the fingers so I massage my fingers constantly.  It's like an itch.  They feel abnormal so I can't help but do something. 

Sometimes its just a light 15-20 seconds of massage randomly throughout the day, and sometimes(when they're really sore) It's a dedicated several minutes on each arm several times during the day.

That's a lot more than I expected. I guess it's something that isn't discussed that often so I've never understood the importance/advantages.

Thanks Sasquatch, I'll try and do it often and see if there's a difference.

Sasquatch

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It's an unconscious action for me at this point.  When I'm reading the forum, I'll be doing massaging them,  walking down the hallway at work I massage them, Watching TV, climbing videos, etc.  Just throughout the day.  Even driving, I'll have one hand on the wheel, and the other massaging the one on the wheel.  All of this is just light massage and constant stretching.  Then if they're particularly sore, I'll do dedicated time to it. 

petejh

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I do the same as Sasq out of habit. Your forearm muscles are your workhorses - like a runner's quads and hamstrings. Of course you need to massage them if they're overtight! Might be a further cause that needs ironing out but first step should be to give the muscles some loving.

When I started getting tennis elbow from weighted pullups/lots of computer work, the usual absent-minded gentle massaging wasn't doing the trick. So I purchased a lacrosse ball and really dug into the forearm extensor muscles, which were fairly tight and sore cf. the other arm. Then I got an armaid - slightly easier to get a deep focused pressure than the lacrosse ball in that you can more easily focus in a sore spot and make very small adjustments to work it out. I'd still recommend a lacrosse ball over an armaid on cost.

Here's that vid for self-massage, it shows massaging the extensors (outer forearm) for tennis elbow. Might be worth a try for a week to see if it improves. You didn't mention whether it's inner or outer forearm that's over-tight.


Luke Owens

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Cheers both! Yeah I forgot to mention it's the inner forearm. After doing some deep massaging I've pin pointed exactly where it hurts. It's a muscle that runs down the inside of my forearm parallel with my bone, it's painful to press right the way along. From a quick Google I think it's the "Flexor Carpi Ulnaris" (Picture below). No idea what this muscle is or why it's giving me grief?

The pain/discomfort is equal in both arms and this is the part that always feels the cramp/tightness when on or after doing routes.

During a good dig around in my arm it's very bumpy/gritty and tight in that area and after a deep massage it's pretty tender. I'm going to stick at the massaging and see if anything improves.

Anyone else get paint/discomfort/tightness in this area?

Cheers,


Luke Owens

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Just found this about the Flexor Carpi Ulnaris. It basicly sums up my climbing exactly.

http://www.drjuliansaunders.com/resources/feature_articles/dodgy_elbows/

Quote
The two major muscles that flex your fingers and the two muscles that flex your wrist (along with quite a few more) originate from a common tendon, which attaches to your medial epicondyle. Each muscle loads the tendon quite differently. The wrist flexor on the little-finger side, called flexor carpi ulnaris (FCU), is usually the pesky one. For the avid climber this has serious ramifications.

Injury often has a lot to do with technique, and elbows are no exception. There are marked biomechanical differences in how the forearm muscles respond when crimping and open-hand¬ing. The load on the FCU when you are crimping is far greater than when slapping up slopers.

Translation for the afflicted reducing the propensity for (or soon to be)—decrease the injury, climbing open-handed amount you crimp. A lot!

Two groups of people crimp: beginners—because it feels stronger—and those who never grew out of it. Two groups of people crimp significantly less: those who naturally evolved, and those who injured themselves crimping.

Some very specific training can help strengthen the affected tendon (see sidebar). Besides reducing the propensity for injury, climbing open-handed will automatically give you greater endurance (that’s another article on its own). Thus the benefit to your climbing career will be twofold.

I've always crimped everything even when I first started climbing. I started outdoors on crimpy slabby lime routes and never really got into climbing indoors. It's actually a bit of a joke amongst my climbing friends that I literally crimp anything and everything, I've been caught crimping slopers plenty of times...

I guess it must just be 4 years of crimp abuse that's left that muscle in a bit of a state. I may be onto something here, it never occurred to me that favoring the dirty crimps that my mates refused to pull on was actually a bad thing.

Going to read up on some rehab for that area, and try and actually climb open handed for a change.

Just thought I'd write this up in case anyone else had a similar problem.

TheTwig

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Just found this about the Flexor Carpi Ulnaris. It basicly sums up my climbing exactly.

http://www.drjuliansaunders.com/resources/feature_articles/dodgy_elbows/

Quote
The two major muscles that flex your fingers and the two muscles that flex your wrist (along with quite a few more) originate from a common tendon, which attaches to your medial epicondyle. Each muscle loads the tendon quite differently. The wrist flexor on the little-finger side, called flexor carpi ulnaris (FCU), is usually the pesky one. For the avid climber this has serious ramifications.

Injury often has a lot to do with technique, and elbows are no exception. There are marked biomechanical differences in how the forearm muscles respond when crimping and open-hand¬ing. The load on the FCU when you are crimping is far greater than when slapping up slopers.

Translation for the afflicted reducing the propensity for (or soon to be)—decrease the injury, climbing open-handed amount you crimp. A lot!

Two groups of people crimp: beginners—because it feels stronger—and those who never grew out of it. Two groups of people crimp significantly less: those who naturally evolved, and those who injured themselves crimping.

Some very specific training can help strengthen the affected tendon (see sidebar). Besides reducing the propensity for injury, climbing open-handed will automatically give you greater endurance (that’s another article on its own). Thus the benefit to your climbing career will be twofold.

I've always crimped everything even when I first started climbing. I started outdoors on crimpy slabby lime routes and never really got into climbing indoors. It's actually a bit of a joke amongst my climbing friends that I literally crimp anything and everything, I've been caught crimping slopers plenty of times...

I guess it must just be 4 years of crimp abuse that's left that muscle in a bit of a state. I may be onto something here, it never occurred to me that favoring the dirty crimps that my mates refused to pull on was actually a bad thing.

Going to read up on some rehab for that area, and try and actually climb open handed for a change.

Just thought I'd write this up in case anyone else had a similar problem.

Nice one! I always say the best thing that ever happened to me was two fairly minor pulley pops when bouldering and yarding on a mono. A real wake-up call to abusing my fingers, it took about a year before my open-hand was as strong as my crimp, and these days I really only pick a grip when it's a angle/surface area contact problem rather than just 'pulling hard'.

J Saunders also wrote a good post somewhere about carpel tunnel in climbers and to watch out for certain types of undercuts/diagonally slanting holds etc.

SA Chris

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and try and actually climb open handed for a change.

Do yourself a favour and don't just try it, try make it a habit to climb open handed as much as possible. Your arms and fingers will thank you.

mctrials23

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I've had vaguely similar issues with my forearms and have been massaging them along with other things but yesterday I was using an armaid to roll our the part of the arm that is always tight and where I feel most of the issues when I read this thread and decided to go all over the forearm.

It seems that even though it doesn't feel painful or like there is any issue there when at rest, the inside edge of my forearm (palm up) near the elbow was super tender to massage. The other arm in the same place was fine so I assume its another place in my forearms that is angry and annoyed.

Basically, I can second the idea of beating the whole forearm up, not just the bits thats feel bad at resting.

SA Chris

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Anyone got any designs for a home made armaid? Old laundry mangle may be excessive, two rolling pins and some bungy cords probably safer.

 

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