UKBouldering.com

Is a climbing coaching session a good idea? (Read 43917 times)

a dense loner

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7165
  • Karma: +388/-28
Haha you've gotta love people's ability to not read things and then put their own words there. Uncle never said he'd coach a session for free, he said if he was disappointed he'd do it for free.

kelvin

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1293
  • Karma: +60/-1
* dense beat me to it

Not sure I agree with that Sloper. I climb way lower than 6c and it's certainly a strength issue that holds me back. I've had a bit of 'coaching' including four hours with Lucy Creamer, who told me I was weak AND crap. Had a couple of sessions with Alex Fry who is strong himself, fall coaching with Katy Forrester for a few hours and I climb with plenty of other people who have coached or still do. If I get my footwork wrong, I get berated by myself long before anyone needs to tell me and whilst I have a way to go with climbing efficiently with a straight arm like Lucy Creamer picked me up on - my technique is pretty good these days. I'm just utterly weak. Can only manage one pullup at the moment and even when I focus on them for a couple of months... three, just three. I did manage 5 once, after dieting like mad and spending a whole two hours warming up specifically. I can't lock off. The list of weakness is endless. I can do two pullups using the Beastmaker mono slots however, so my fingers aren't horrific.

So whilst I've managed to onsight 6b on a slab, managed 6A/+ in Font within two goes, flashed V4, put me on anything slightly overhanging and I'm done for. It's got to the point that when people tell me to 'just' go climbing, learn technique and try hard, I shut off - been trying that for three years and it's basically got me nowhere. I had a two hour chat this week with the Youth Team coach and he said he just didn't understand why I'm not better, I put the effort in, my footwork is good but I don't think he realises that when I say I can't pull in or up, I literally mean it.

I do agree with the your point that there's a difference between using a trainer and a coach. The first to get climbing fit and strong, the other to get technique. That's maybe where people go wrong, just not picking the right person for what they want.

Sloper

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • fat and weak but with good footwork.
  • Posts: 5199
  • Karma: +130/-78
6c is not that hard anymore.

I'm talking about Font 6c.  Almost all font problems up to 6c should be climbable by substituting technique for power / strength.

Sloper

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • fat and weak but with good footwork.
  • Posts: 5199
  • Karma: +130/-78
* dense beat me to it

Not sure I agree with that Sloper. I climb way lower than 6c and it's certainly a strength issue that holds me back. I've had a bit of 'coaching' including four hours with Lucy Creamer, who told me I was weak AND crap. Had a couple of sessions with Alex Fry who is strong himself, fall coaching with Katy Forrester for a few hours and I climb with plenty of other people who have coached or still do. If I get my footwork wrong, I get berated by myself long before anyone needs to tell me and whilst I have a way to go with climbing efficiently with a straight arm like Lucy Creamer picked me up on - my technique is pretty good these days. I'm just utterly weak. Can only manage one pullup at the moment and even when I focus on them for a couple of months... three, just three. I did manage 5 once, after dieting like mad and spending a whole two hours warming up specifically. I can't lock off. The list of weakness is endless. I can do two pullups using the Beastmaker mono slots however, so my fingers aren't horrific.

So whilst I've managed to onsight 6b on a slab, managed 6A/+ in Font within two goes, flashed V4, put me on anything slightly overhanging and I'm done for. It's got to the point that when people tell me to 'just' go climbing, learn technique and try hard, I shut off - been trying that for three years and it's basically got me nowhere. I had a two hour chat this week with the Youth Team coach and he said he just didn't understand why I'm not better, I put the effort in, my footwork is good but I don't think he realises that when I say I can't pull in or up, I literally mean it.

I do agree with the your point that there's a difference between using a trainer and a coach. The first to get climbing fit and strong, the other to get technique. That's maybe where people go wrong, just not picking the right person for what they want.

You clearly don't climb way lower than 6c if you've onsighted 6b and climbed 6a+ in a couple of goes, it just sounds like your technique on steep stuff is shit vs your technique on less steep stuff, if you can do mono pull ups you should be able to piss up steep stuff on jugs, I'm as weak as a kitten and can walk up steep 5's at a wall (e.g. the climbing works)

a dense loner

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7165
  • Karma: +388/-28
Why? No they shouldn't, an overhanging 6c requires more strength than a slabby 6c conversely a slabby 6c requires more ability to stand on your feet than an overhanging 6c. People just pick numbers out and say climbing begins here, or training should begin here, no it doesn't.

Stubbs

  • Guest
Unless jfdm changed who he was going to see, you don't have to be Clouseau to work out who his session was with by reading the thread...

kelvin

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1293
  • Karma: +60/-1
I wish that were so Sloper but the minute I have to pull hard, even on a jug, the climb is all over for me. It's true I avoid roofs due to stuffed knee ligaments but on really hard slabs, there are times when you need to pull. I can hold the crimp, get my foot on the hold but get some momentum going by pulling hard? It just doesn't happen. Frustrates the hell out of me...

I'm weaker than you and that Barrows fella. Of this there is no doubt.  :(

*I've also failed miserably on many a 3C in the forest but it's Font, slabs there are no normal.

cowboyhat

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1496
  • Karma: +128/-5
Haha you've gotta love people's ability to not read things and then put their own words there. Uncle never said he'd coach a session for free, he said if he was disappointed he'd do it for free.

I thought that would be a given. ZING!



Oh god now I'm explaining a joke on UKB and to you of all people. Do I also have to explain why I know he meant Font 6c to Sloper?


jfdm

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: +20/-3
some interesting comments, good thread. 

For me the key thing is to stop faffing and actually train, stop social climbing and get down to business.  I clearly need a day by day plan.  Real structure to the 12 weeks.  I also need feedback.  She helps by text, by email and by phone if needed between seeing her.  She wrote my plan and one of the best things is she considered the limitations of time I have in my life. 

Looking back at your posts you need something similar, a longer term coaching / a plan / a mentor to support.  If youre around London/south then ping me a message and I'll point you her way.  If not I think this is what you should look for locally.  Good luck fella.

Thanks your post, you are right somebody can be show you this and that but at the end of the day it is all about putting in the time yourself. Physically doing the work. But also having a plan and sticking with it.

Your coach sounds brilliant. I will keep this in mind.
May pm you and get the coaches details- live and work in London - climb at Arch most Sat/Sunday's

Thanks a lot

a dense loner

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7165
  • Karma: +388/-28
I was also referring to SA Chris' remark about a coffee or pint wouldn't go amiss not just your obviously quite good joke about uncle giving a disappointing coaching session. We know uncle his potential future employer may not. I've no idea what the word zing means

jfdm

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: +20/-3
Unless jfdm changed who he was going to see, you don't have to be Clouseau to work out who his session was with by reading the thread...

Not going to name names but coaching took place at large climbing centre in West London.
Also it wasn't with Steve or Neil.

With regard the centre - it is brilliant for routes, but absolutely appalling for bouldering.
The bouldering is like a warm-up venue for route climbers.
Difficult to tell how hard problems are, loads of caked chalk on holds - problem don't look like they are reset very often, also more expensive than the Arch.

Wanted the coach to come to the Arch but he didn't want to.

jfdm

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: +20/-3

jfdm

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: +20/-3
* dense beat me to it

I do agree with the your point that there's a difference between using a trainer and a coach. The first to get climbing fit and strong, the other to get technique. That's maybe where people go wrong, just not picking the right person for what they want.

Completely agree, I personally thought I would improve my training first  - which is why I went with a training type coach. Then look at technique in a few weeks time.

Instead of training the coached focused on technique, I must add here that I wasn't given any drills to practise other than to initiate movement from feet/legs/core - rather pulling with arms.

It was frustrating because a coach who works from the Arch was offering a technique session, which I turned down.

jfdm

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: +20/-3
Again thanks for the posts - one positive is that I am no longer a ukb "newbie" but now a "regular!"

Went to the Arch this morning.
Focused on trying to move more dynamically between holds.
On the comp wall managed to latch a dynamic move that had previously defeated me.
But fell off a move or two later!
So progress after one session.

The coached suggested campus boarding which I did towards the end of the session today.
On Wednesday could only manage 1&2 rung ladders but today did 1,2,3,4,
Again some progress.

All in all it ain't bad. The important thing it to enjoy the climbing whatever you are doing?
Rather than get too precious or tanked up about.
Have a good weekend everyone!

Sloper

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • fat and weak but with good footwork.
  • Posts: 5199
  • Karma: +130/-78
Haha you've gotta love people's ability to not read things and then put their own words there. Uncle never said he'd coach a session for free, he said if he was disappointed he'd do it for free.

I thought that would be a given. ZING!



Oh god now I'm explaining a joke on UKB and to you of all people. Do I also have to explain why I know he meant Font 6c to Sloper?

Sorry, I'm full of a cold and feeling like a bit of 4x4 (and yes I know I'm wider than that before everyone points it out) and thought you were making reference to Ben Moon's old quote, also what has church furniture go to do with it, we're not talking about DWS.

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29221
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix

The coached suggested campus boarding which I did towards the end of the session today.
On Wednesday could only manage 1&2 rung ladders but today did 1,2,3,4,


Approach campus boarding with caution. If not done correctly you can injure yourself.

andy_e

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8836
  • Karma: +275/-42
How many minutes did that take you to type out Chris? Could have charged a couple of quid there...

unclesomebody

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • 1-5-NEIN!
  • Posts: 1693
  • Karma: +148/-9
  • more business, less party.
6c is not that hard anymore.

Your training must be going well...  ;)

Drop me a text about climbing next week at the arch.

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29221
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
How many minutes did that take you to type out Chris? Could have charged a couple of quid there...

If anyone wants training on how to injure yourself, I am highly experienced.

IS2

Offline
  • **
  • addict
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +10/-0
Apologies if this has been said, I have read the thread quickly and am also considering having some coaching.  I have had coaching in the past and it has varied both in price and quality. Coincidentally the most expensive was the worst.

My experience leads me to believe that you need to be very clear about what you want to improve and then check thoroughly that the coach or trainer you choose has a good track record in that field. Coaching is an unregulated activity, basically anyone can set themselves up as a coach, and therefore checking the claims of the coach against the testimony of real clients who have experienced real improvements is key.

If you are not sure what you want to improve, find a coach who has a good track record in observation and analysis to get a good baseline assessment first.

Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13414
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
I thought Sloper meant English 6c  :unsure:

jfdm

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: +20/-3

The coached suggested campus boarding which I did towards the end of the session today.
On Wednesday could only manage 1&2 rung ladders but today did 1,2,3,4,


Approach campus boarding with caution. If not done correctly you can injure yourself.

Coach said once a week only campusing, don't try if not feeling up to it.
Ladder moves just up - then dropping off.
Maximum of 3 or 4 sets with rest of 2-3 minutes.
Do this for 4 weeks - then complete rest form it for a week.
Review and repeat.
Have been doing foot on campusing at the end of sessions most weeks since the summer.
Know I over did it with 2 sessions this week - but from now on once a week.
Coach said over doing it will cause injury.

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29221
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
It's not just volume it's technique. I managed to knacker my elbows doing it badly just once

Boredboy

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: +5/-1
I'm not sure what your climbing 'goals' are Jfdm, but the thing that really makes a difference in moving from v3 to say v9 is finger strength. Get strong fingers and your grade will improve. Technique improves with time on rock (lots of time) trying a wide variety of problems, routes, styles and rock types. Campusing with sloppy style and weak fingers / shoulders is a way to get injured. Climbing walls are often full of problems with big holds on steep walls with gymnastic moves, particulary at the lower end of grades. You could spend 6 months learning how to move from the hips or ladder on a campus board and not improve on rock at all. 0-30 deg overhanging incrementaly small foot and finger holds, supplement it with some core exercise and possibly dead hanging at a later stage and spend your free time on rock and away you go. Finger strength is the thing that seems to make the difference!

moose

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Lankenstein's Monster
  • Posts: 2931
  • Karma: +228/-1
  • el flaco lento
Some training advice from a literary titan:

“Strong arms are for the boys and girls, strong fingers for the ladies and gentlemen; but they who aspire to be heroes must have core!”
― Samuel ""body tension of an ironing board" Johnson



 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal