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Sleeping: how? (Read 8441 times)

Muenchener

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Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 06:36:12 am
I've been tracking my hours slept per night for a few months now, because one reads all over the place that eight hours per night is a minimum for adequate recovery if one is trying to train seriously. My average is 7.4, and tbh I'm struggling to see how anybody with a job and kids manages to hit the magic number.

My average is actually higher because I have August in there which was school holidays. Otherwise it would be worse; on school days we have to be up at six in order to get M jnr fed, brushed and out of the door in time for his bus. He goes to bed around 9:30, so if I wanted to get eight hours sleep I would have half exactly half an hour in the evening for non-child-related activities. Minus toothbrushing time.

Weekends don't offer that much opportunity for lie-ins either if I want to go climbing. I live an hour or two's drive from any worthwhile crags, so that also means getting up at the latest around seven o'clock. Oh well, M jnr will be hitting puberty soon and then at least there will be unlimited lie-ins on non-climbing weekends.

Nibile

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#1 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 07:30:21 am
When I had to commute, I had to wake up at six as well. In order to get enough sleep - I need plenty to feel good, surely more than average - I had basically built my life around it. So after dinner I was in bed at around 21:30, sleeping like a baby by 22. No matter what.
It was still shit though, no social life, nothing. Plus, I used to wake up very early on Saturdays as well, but often after going out on Friday night, so, little sleep again.
Can you take a power nap at some point?

Mike Tyson

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#2 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 08:02:14 am
After denying myself sleep a lot during my late teens and early twenties (something bout those little pills....) and having kids when I was 25, I have no got a massive amount of respect for how important a goods night shut eye is. Being sleep deprived is for me, one of the worst things that can happen. These days I tend to be in bed asleep by half 10 at the latest during the week, and I get up at 7am so I'm getting a decent amount of sleep. My kids stay with me at the weekend and I still manage a decent amount then. How old are your kids? Mine are both 7 so I have them we'll and truly in a routine so we all get a decent nights sleep.

Jaspersharpe

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#3 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 08:05:35 am
Yeah make the sprog go to bed earlier!

Mike Tyson

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#4 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 08:06:50 am
Just noticed your wee one isn't so wee any more! On the power nap front, I've never been a fan as I tend not to be able to sleep at night if I do somehow nod off during the day. I know some of my friends who operate on 6 hours most nights due to work commitments and young kids. Not sure if that's any consolation though!

tomtom

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#5 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 08:23:57 am
I've generally never needed more than 7 hours a night... though since about 6-8 years ago I can generally count the number of good sleeps (deep undisturbed sleep) per year on the fingers of one hand... Normally head to bed about 10:30/11 and wake at 7ish - normally wake up several times in the night...

Some people just need less sleep than others.. I have an extremely productive colleague (work wise) with three kids, and he puts the kids to bed, starts working again from 10pm - c.2/3am then goes to bed. Up at 7/8 etc.... He just needs 4-5 hours a night... like Thatcher!

I've always longed for a 'cerebral disconnector (tm)' aka a big red switch on the back of my neck that would switch off my brain for the night :)

Luke Owens

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#6 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 09:03:26 am
I've never been able to find a way of getting consistently 8+ hours sleep.

I work full time and live with my partner. We have a 2 year old who goes to bed between 7pm - 8pm. I get up at 6:30am to take the little one to nursery and my partner to town.

Due to needing down time after the little one is in bed and time to spend with my partner I end up having about 7 hours sleep on non-climbing days. However, when I end up going out climbing I'm not getting in until 10pm and sometimes 11pm in the summer; so I only end up getting around 6 hours sleep.

I'm often tired and wonder how much it would make a difference if I slept more. I train quite a lot so I guess my recovery would be better with more sleep but it would mean sacrificing that time I have with my partner in the evenings.

Maybe try and get a power nap at somepoint, I tried these on a 30 minute lunch break but I always felt worse afterwards?

andyd

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#7 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 10:21:28 am
Yeah make the sprog go to bed earlier!
This, but maybe it's too late...

Good coffee (see link below)

Taking it in turns. Do you both have to get up at 6?

Lie in at the weekend. One morning it's your turn. No disturbance til 9/10am rule.

Stretch before you go to bed for a more relaxed sleep.

Most importantly perhaps (it worked for me)...move closer to climbing.

Weekend to yourself? Could you pack the family off somewhere? Mine head off to the inlaw's farm

Cook at the weekend. Freeze and defrost on the day you need it to save evening time.

Training at home/woodie saves time.

As a guilt free tip for getting time to yourself, make sure that the arrangement to free up your time is reciprocal. If Mrs Donkey wants to go out/away for the weekend my default answer is yes.

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#8 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 04:39:28 pm
I've been tracking my hours slept per night for a few months now, because one reads all over the place that eight hours per night is a minimum for adequate recovery if one is trying to train seriously. My average is 7.4, and tbh I'm struggling to see how anybody with a job and kids manages to hit the magic number.
Full time Job - Check
Kids 15 and 18 - Check
Year to date sleep average 7.6 - .......

I started tracking mine in 2013(along with a few other things),  because I was having a number of minor tweaks and strains - Small but niggly stuff.  I was at 7.4hrs in 2013, and I've tried very hard to improve this year, and so far so good.  I'd love to get to an average of 8, but I don't see that as likely until the 18yo is done w high school (May).

Being the tracking geek that I am, I tried to correlate the niggles and the sleep, and there was no direct correlation, but when added to workout volume, it started to make more sense. The more I was doing, the more sleep I needed, but that was actually when I generally got less sleep, as I was doing more and had less time for sleep. 

Good coffee (see link below)

Taking it in turns. Do you both have to get up at 6?

Lie in at the weekend. One morning it's your turn. No disturbance til 9/10am rule.

Stretch before you go to bed for a more relaxed sleep.

Most importantly perhaps (it worked for me)...move closer to climbing.

Weekend to yourself? Could you pack the family off somewhere? Mine head off to the inlaw's farm

Cook at the weekend. Freeze and defrost on the day you need it to save evening time.

Training at home/woodie saves time.

As a guilt free tip for getting time to yourself, make sure that the arrangement to free up your time is reciprocal. If Mrs Donkey wants to go out/away for the weekend my default answer is yes.
:agree:  All very good suggestions. 

I'd add that long term average doesn't seem to mean much unless you're redlining your workout volume, but if you have a bigger trip/important objective/goal coming up, then work hard to get 3-4 consistent 8-9hour days and it'll go a long long way. 

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#9 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 05:41:59 pm
good sleep hygiene makes a big difference to the quality of sleep - google "sleep hygiene" for a few different ideas

I remember a talk when the oldest child started secondary school where the head said that kids of the ages covered by that school need between 8(and a half?) and 10 hrs sleep per night - that doesn't leave a lot of non-child time for a parent wanting 8 hours of sleep themselves

get an au pair - it's clearly the answer to the issue of adult fun time







tomtom

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#10 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 05:49:12 pm
In many ways...

Will Hunt

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#11 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 06:24:31 pm

thekettle

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#12 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 09:24:49 pm
Sounds like it might be worth working on the quality if you can't increase the quantity?
Lots of info out there about routines to improve sleep quality/hygiene - diet/eating times, relaxation routines, hot/cold contrast showers, light level management etc

Falling Down

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#13 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 10:18:01 pm
My tips for good sleep hygiene (I had bad middle of the night insomnia for years).

Nothing electronic at all in the bedroom other than lighting. No TV, no radio, no computer, no chargers, no nothing. (No distractions, No hum, no LED)
A really great big bed.
Great curtains or blackout blinds.
Buy a nice eye mask (cashmere or wool).

I never realised how much even the smallest light can start to wake you up even when your eyes are closed.  Eyelids detect photons.

No TV, or computer or ipad/iPhone for an hour before bed (not always possible or desirable but I can tell the difference when I'm disciplined).

The usual stuff about not drinking too much, caffeine levels etc.

I love my sleep  :wub:

tomtom

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#14 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 10:20:18 pm
I play patience on my phone every night before dropping off. The need to partially concentrate on something not at all important really helps me to switch off.

Falling Down

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#15 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 10:34:05 pm
I try to read, really helps me drift away and switch off the chatterbox in my head.

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#16 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 14, 2014, 10:35:46 pm

I play patience on my phone every night before dropping off. The need to partially concentrate on something not at all important really helps me to switch off.

We tend to play adventure/mystery/puzzle game together on one of our pads.

Like "The Room" for instance.

This usually results in her snoring on my chest, at which point I switch to a book; typically lasting 5-10min before dropping the pad on my face...

Patience is for those "waking up at 4 am because I can't stop thinking about work/money" moments...

Muenchener

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#17 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 06:06:27 am
Wow. Evidently a subject of wider interest than I expected. Thanks for all the constructive tips and support. Got a solid seven and a half hours last night after a run of sixes, feeling much better now.

Actually sleeping once I'm in bed is rarely a problem - I did have quite a problem with mind racing insomnia when I was younger but it has improved greatly. Managing my caffeine intake is definitely a factor: these days I have my last coffee of the day just after lunch, although tea in the evening doesn't seem to be a problem.

Taking it in turns. Do you both have to get up at 6?

Actually yes. School motivation is a major issue, so it's important for all to be seen to share in the suffering.

Quote
Most importantly perhaps (it worked for me)...move closer to climbing.

Longer term definitely. But don't want to move while the lad is still in school - see above - and when the time comes, it will mean being further from either the Alps or the Frankenjura. Tough call, and I'm really not sure which I would prefer.

webbo

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#18 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 09:11:44 am
There is some recent research which suggests that computors/ phones use in the late evening can cause sleep problems. Something to do with the light from the screen effecting your brain which can prevent sleep.

seankenny

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#19 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 12:36:10 pm
Interesting thread.

I find that after a night at the wall I sleep poorly, often either waking in the night or waking much earlier than I'd like - despite having done a good bout of exercise the evening before. Anybody suffered similar and managed to deal with it?

rginns

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#20 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 01:04:24 pm
I probably have a dysfunctional relationship with sleep, inasmuch as I don't want it, and often suspect I don't get what I need...
Usually by the time I've got back from work, cooked, got the kids fed/watered/bathed/storytimed/brushed and then unconscious, it's between 8:30 and 9, so normally I make a large cafetiere of good quality coffee (essential) and either train on the woody or do household chores etc. I'm rarely in bed before 1am, then back up at 7:00.
My most productive time is in the evenings, so sleeping just seems a waste to me. I certainly wouldn't be able to get any significant volume of climbing / core work in if I didn't use the evenings let alone anything done on the house.
 I found the only time I really could not do without getting sleep was when I was drinking, but I don't really drink now which has improved my energy levels immensely.

There's no short cut though really, if you do need 8 hours, something's got to give, be that sacrificing down time in the evening or sleeping in later.
Even if I don't get much sleep, it's always good quality - black out curtains, massive soft bed, tidy room,  no telly, no electronics etc all definitely help in my opinion so when I put my head down I'm asleep pretty much straight away.

tomtom

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#21 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 04:07:39 pm
Interesting thread.

I find that after a night at the wall I sleep poorly, often either waking in the night or waking much earlier than I'd like - despite having done a good bout of exercise the evening before. Anybody suffered similar and managed to deal with it?


Absolutely - its one reason why I try not to go to climbing walls in the evening (the main reason is I prefer to get outdoors whenever possible, and its cheaper during the day ;) )...

I find it takes me a while to wind down/feel sleepy when I get back in, and I wake up lots/sleep badly. I suspect its because I've not re-hydrated properly... something which seems to take my body quite a long time (a number of hours - not just chug 2l of water after and I'm fine..).

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#22 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 04:50:58 pm
Only kind of excercise thats recomended to partake in just before sleep is  :shag:, all other physical activities are counter productive if performed to close to sleep time.

I'm not that worried about getting 8hours, seems 7 works great for me and longer than 8 hours leaves me sluggish and tired all day.
As stated earlier my best advices would be:
Build a woodie in the garage and always say yes if your wife want to have some time off and share the weekend mornings.


//Tresor

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#23 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 07:56:14 pm
I find that after a night at the wall I sleep poorly
probably because your lungs are full of dust/chalk.
If you're struggling to sleep then I recomend booze, lots of booze. If that still doesn't seem to work then 5 or 10mg of valium will definately do the trick  ;)

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#24 Re: Sleeping: how?
October 15, 2014, 09:48:56 pm
Very interesting stuff. I'm a shift worker, being constantly reminded by people that I'm doomed to an early grave through lack of a regular sleep pattern. I'm not too sure how it affects my ability to climb, but I don't think twice about going out bouldering or training after a night shift and 3-4 hrs sleep.

Other than all the other sensible suggestions above, I couldn't be without this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mizusoft.relaxandsleep&hl=en

I'm a pretty light sleeper, and having some white noise playing really helps to block out inconsiderate bastards next door people going about their day to day lives.

 

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