[Oldmanmatt]

Something I used to do, with a preset top rope (double 9), weighted at the bottom (usually a rucksack with some rocks in) and a shunt on a short tape.

This was a habit in my Military days, when I would find myself on leave and everyone else at work...

Now, I understand the limitations on those tapes in terms of failure under dynamic load and have a better appreciation for the risks.

Has anyone tried or successfully used a self belay technique.

And...

Auto belays.

How about a similar system, re-wound with dynamic rope, anchored to the floor, for solo lead practice indoors? (Bit of rope drag issue I suppose, but I can think of ways to mitigate that).

[SEDur]

See what Andy KP has to say...

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/rope_soloing_101_part_1

[petejh]

I was doing it last night on Red Meat wall trying to gain some fitness for a late season proj on the Diamond. I do it quite a bit for fitness training where you ant to just run laps on one route. I use a grigri, current one isn't modified although my previous grigri was and it does make the rope run a little easier, on a chunky steel maillon - essential! I've often used my normal belay carabiner but have lost count of the number times I've looked down to see it cross-loaded on the gate. I'd say always drop a second rope/double the one rope and clip a few life-saver loops with a long sling and screwgate - I didn't last night and often negate this bit but it's dumb.

Have used a shunt quite a bit too - also on a chunkjy steel maillon, but I prefer the grigri for being able to descend more easily, plus shunts are deadly...

The bluewater/autobelay - it could work but would be a heavy load-carry! I doubt it's designed to take the sort of fall-factors possible for lead soloing -  wouldn't a silent partner be a better option?

[Muenchener]

I used to use a shunt w/o backup for self top roping, as was the norm Back Then, but strangely didn't die.

These days I use a grigri, but do it so rarely that I haven't really got a system worked out, and getting the bloody grigri to feed is more hassle than doing the climbing.

[Johnny Brown]

Not sure what you mean by ' the limitations on those tapes in terms of failure under dynamic load'. Self top-roping using a shunt is not a situation where you can generate enough force to break anything - the fall factors are too low. For that reason it's also fine to use low-stretch rope rather than dynamic.

Shunts have fallen a bit out of favour as they are not reliable - if you grab them or they load badly you're in for a plummet. Petzl have never recommended the Shunt for this use for this reason. Instead they suggest you use an ascender or locking pulley. Most folk go for the micro-traxion locking pulley nowadays, with a Grigri to get back down.

I have done solo leading but never tested it in a fall. It's fine for aid climbing but terrifying and borderline unusable for free. None of the systems I've seen are bombproof and all need backing up with knots. Definitely don't use a shunt for this, a modified Grigri is the usual choice unless you shell out for a silent partner. Assuming you own the wall as you won't be allowed to solo lead otherwise! In which case can't you pay one of the minions to belay?

[Oldmanmatt]

It's mainly something I haven't considered for such a long time. BITD (circa 89/90) I would  spend an afternoon in some dire Swanage quarry/ damp Cornish quarry.

I've been thinking about it for some time now as I'm starting to hanker after some sport, but family and business get in the way if a meaningful climbing partner scenario. Plus, I have a long drag to get back to a reasonable level and would frankly rather work on that without an audience...

Also, simple interest in what others had found successful.

The auto belay thing is just a progression of the thought experiment. The Fan type arrangement aught to give minimal drag at a slow pull and a smooth arrest from the moment of snatch... Pipe dream.
Walls don't supply lead ropes. The liability issues would be .., urgh!

Also... Mine's a bouldering centre, most of the staff think a rope is just for tying the pads to the car roof...
(Not true, most are pretty handy with a route and a rope).
 

[Oldmanmatt]

The dynamic loading of slings?
I was thinking of this:

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/slings-at-anchors/

I used to use a 3' sling. It gave that "lead" feel and allowed lateral movement which the weighted rope hindered. This meant the shunt was at foot level for me...
I used to believe those slings were all but unbreakable.
As an instructor in the late 80's, we often wizzed  up and down VDiff's beside clients on this arrangement...

I'm lucky..,

...ish.

[Johnny Brown]

A sling on an anchor is categorically not the same as on a shunt on a rope - it's a fall factor 2 vs a fall factor fuck all. You could not generate high impact forces. Having said that a micro traxion direct to the waist works better anyhow.

I'd bin the leading idea, it's simply not going to work well enough for sport climbing.

[chris j]

I did some solo top-roping at Chudleigh, using a Troll Rocker (sadly no longer available), a couple of years ago. Must admit, being a control freak I find falling off more terrifying than leading, especially when I can't see the anchors for the top-rope! Kept the Rocker high up by attaching it between waist and chest harness. It all worked ok on vertical or slightly off-vertical. Not sure I'd fancy trying on anything much steeper than say Torbryan as I can see the potential for having to swap over to an abseil device to get back to the ground while hanging in free space...

I can imagine auto-belay leading is going to go wrong the first time you have to make a semi-dynamic desperate lunge/slap for a jug...

[Will Hunt]

What do people mean by a modified gri-gri? When I used to do this at Pex Hill I would set up a top rope, tie in and stick myself on belay on my harness. Climb up until you can take one hand off to pull rope through and take in the slack. Repeat. Relatively safe (disclaimer: probably not safe at all) I thought, provided that the rope going up from your harness to the anchor doesn't pin the camming action on the belay. device in the open position.

[kelvin]

I've seen two sorts of mods - one a small hole drilled with a wire loop, I assume to enable being attached from above to a chest harness? The other is modding the arm area so the rope can run freely without 'pulling' on the arm. Wasn't too sure what I was looking at when I saw this as I have a grigri 2 and this was on a 1 but at the time it made sense.

[csl]

This is a 'death mod' Gri Gri Will. It's for solo leading on one.

http://ulrichprinz.com/alpin/equipment/selfmade/

You don't need to do any mods for your version of Gri Gri top roping.

[shark]

You don't need to do any mods for your version of Gri Gri top roping.

It does make the rope run better though - as Pete said

[Will Hunt]

Well I can certainly see why they call it a death modification. I think I'll just carry on climbing with others; I make a point of not taking advice from websites that are white text on a black background.

[csurfleet]

I tend to use a petzl basic with a chest sling to keep it high, as it feeds so nicely. You'll want a second strand of rope hanging down to switch onto when you want to descend (eddy/grigri handy).

I've head lots of advice about toothed ascenders stripping ropes but I've never spoken to anyone its actually happened to, plus Caldwell uses a microtraxion for working el cap free routes and he probably knows his stuff...

[cheque]

I make a point of not taking advice from websites that are white text on a black background.

  The ultra-lightweight sleeping mat idea a bit lower down the page is excellent too. Reminded me of http://www.kakibusok.plus.com/Equipment/CTDQ2/CTDQ2.htm a bit.

[Doylo]

I tend to use a petzl basic with a chest sling to keep it high, as it feeds so nicely. You'll want a second strand of rope hanging down to switch onto when you want to descend (eddy/grigri handy).

I've head lots of advice about toothed ascenders stripping ropes but I've never spoken to anyone its actually happened to, plus Caldwell uses a microtraxion for working el cap free routes and he probably knows his stuff...

I wouldn't like to go over Fall Factor 0 if I was climbing on a toothed device .

[Paul B]

For top-roping the micro-trax seems to the method of choice in the good ol' USA. See many videos of people doing this on Free-rider.

Correct me if I'm wrong (think this was from a Lyon equipment demo) but the toothed ascender issue is only an issue (on a top rope) as you get 'close' to the anchor i.e. as there is less dynamic rope available to absorb/dissipate the impact of a fall.

What about one of the new ASAPs, would they work for this?

[Doylo]

ASAPs are fall arrest devices that you use with an energy absorbing lanyard so not ideal for self climbing. I'm sure Johnny Brown will give you the numbers .

[kelvin]

I wouldn't like to go over Fall Factor 0 if I was climbing on a toothed device .

Do you mind me asking why? Rope stripping fears? Or something else? Not after hard facts, as the who self belay thing is vague.

[Doylo]

I wouldn't like to go over Fall Factor 0 if I was climbing on a toothed device .

Do you mind me asking why? Rope stripping fears?

Yes simply that. I was using a croll at work this week and it loaded slightly wrong and I sat back and even that was enough to slightly fray the sheaf. Dynamic falls can generate forces that can easily damage the rope.

[Doylo]

If you're self top roping using a toothed device and the rope is weighted and the device is sliding up with you that would be ok for me I just wouldn't want to be in a position where you could take a dynamic fall.

[kelvin]

Thanks.

This is something I've been thinking about a fair bit lately as I get odd days off at short notice. Obviously, ropes cost a lot and I'd rather not trash them and there's so much 'information' out there, it's hard to know what to do for the best.

I can't see me ever thinking I'd need to lead on a self-belay but I'm guessing plenty solo big wallers do.

[csurfleet]

If you're self top roping using a toothed device and the rope is weighted and the device is sliding up with you that would be ok for me I just wouldn't want to be in a position where you could take a dynamic fall.

Thats the rub - I have it attached to a sling over my shoulder which keeps it high and means slack doesn't build up.

I've used an eddy before too, but it doesn't feed too well on toprope - works well for lead though

[Probes]

For working single pitch short ish routes, I used to use a gri gri fixed to the anchor/tree/sling setup at the top (where yu would normally have a top rope crab), id then drop a rope to the bottom and put a counter weight on the otherside, then ab the live rope to get to the bottom with it lock off in the gri gri. You could then climb the route tied into that end of the rope and the counter weight would take in the slack, if you fell you'd load the gri gri and it would lock. As back up Id make sure I was tied in in a position/clip a loop etc so should the gri gri not lock you wouldnt deck (the counter weight with knot would hit the gri gri before you hit the floor) Great system for trying stuff at you limit when you dont need the faff of a shunt. Placing the grigri in a favourable position so it has a good chance of locking is advisable, as is wearing a lid. I prefer to shunt these days.