[krymson]

In the past few months have sorted my work situation out so I've been able to get outside 3-4 days a week - which has been great for my head, improved my rock reading skills and been fun, but left me physically weak compared to when most of my time was spent on indoors.

In the past when I was a plastic warrior it was always my head, my route reading skills or crap climbing that stopped me from sending outdoors.

These days when I get on my projects, I find I have decent "AeroPow"(i understand this is endurance for routes near the onsight level) but I have crap power endurance and  peak power. Since I'm outdoors 3-4 days a week that also means I'm generally too fucked on the off days to do other forms of training.

So what kind of things can you do for staying fit at the crag? Especially if your partners aren't as motivated and you don't want to bother them for endless belays.

Some thoughts:
-extra set of draws to hang two routes so you can do the routes you want.
-bringing the pad out to boulder once a week for power -(I've tried hard redpointing but find it leaves you fucking spent, annoys partners if they arent working the same route, and seems to mix endurance and power training which doesn't make much sense. maybe im doing it wrong?)
-easy traverses for Aerocap at the beginning or end of a climbing day
-Focusing on routes around the onsight level - this allows more volume per session for movement training as well as endurance and stamina

[lagerstarfish]

Especially if your partners aren't as motivated and you don't want to bother them for endless belays.

find other partners

[Oldmanmatt]

Especially if your partners aren't as motivated and you don't want to bother them for endless belays.

find other partners

+1

Most of your problems and solutions, mentioned in your post, revolve around not upsetting partners.

There are self belaying techniques (in days of yore I used a shunt on a short tape, on a double rope weighted at the bottom), but there is considerable risk attached (though probably no more than a solo boulder session) in doing that.

I spent a couple of years, where circumstance of life left me unable to buddy up. Lots of free time when others were unavailable, being in a foreign country alone etc. is what lead to me concentrating on Bouldering. But I always kept up three indoor sessions per week (more when the weather was bad).

Strangely, since opening my own wall, I have almost stopped training or climbing myself...

[kelvin]

Especially if your partners aren't as motivated and you don't want to bother them for endless belays.

find other partners

I almost posted this earlier but felt it was a bit of a negative answer BUT... it's the right one.

[krymson]

Most of your problems and solutions, mentioned in your post, revolve around not upsetting partners.

That's probably the heart of it. I've always been good at training by myself but when I'm climbing with a partner im not great at making my wishes known.

While I wish i could find the ideal partner as suggested by others, i think that's a bit like saying you need to find your one true love - nice in theory not so easy in practice(anyone want to make Tinder for climbers?) and I have to admit i do currently have a set of fairly psyched, positive partners but who are just at different levels or have different goals.

I probably just need to make my goals clearer with them(and listen to theirs as well) so we can figure out how to make the day work out for both of us. Asking for an extra belay at the end of the day etc. is not gonna kill the relationship.

[kelvin]

currently have a set of fairly psyched, positive partners but who are just at different levels or have different goals.

I probably just need to make my goals clearer with them(and listen to theirs as well) so we can figure out how to make the day work out for both of us. Asking for an extra belay at the end of the day etc. is not gonna kill the relationship.

The lad I've been climbing a fair bit with lately and am planning on heading to spain with for six months next year is way better than me. He's 8a+ and I'm 6a+, he's 20 and I'm 50 next year. So we're in the process of sorting how we make it all work. Someone suggested having separate days on a two day trip - one focused on you and one on them. I tried this with someone else last year and it worked pretty well. I got my first E1 on the Sunday and he had the Saturday to do what he liked. So in Spain, I'm thinking on Jordon's rest days, I get to nail it and vice versa, the days we both climb will be days for working stuff or training. That way, you know at least every few days, you can warm up how you want and lead what you want. Might work for you?

[krymson]

Makes sense. I usually climb with the same person just once a week but splitting it up like -morning my goals, afternoon your goals is certainly better than a whole day of compromise.

I guess that address everything except the high-end stuff which im finding hard to train on outdoor routes so I think i need to find and develop a diverse set of boulders that mimic the routes i want to do. Either that or give in to the call of the urethane and hit a steep board one day a week.

I'm starting to understand why people got so much stronger when gyms came along.

[a dense loner]

A morning session for one and afternoon for the other works well

[Sasquatch]

Try stuff WAYYY over your head so you're in essense bouldering on a rope.  For example, if you're currently in the 7b/c redpoint range, jump on a an 8a/b route.  You know you'll get shut down,. so the goal is actually jsut to figure out the moves and connects short sequences.  It'll annoy the F&*( out of your partner at first, but a good partner will be psyched by your effort and improvement as much or more than you. 

[siderunner]

Interesting suggestion Sasquatch, that's something I've been toying with in my head for a while.

I'm kind of stuck at F7a (usually first redpoint go after one hanging the onsight) and been thinking of jumping on F7b or F7b+ to see what the next level feels like and as training. Basically to work out if I need more bouldering power or to train endurance.

I know it's a punter comment, but do you feel happy baling off a single bolt if you can't get up it? Sadly I know no rope guns and in fact my partners struggle toproping F6c. Perhaps it's just a mental block.


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[kelvin]

but do you feel happy baling off a single bolt if you can't get up it? Sadly I know no rope guns and in fact my partners struggle toproping F6c.

I've been using a clipstick to get to the top if I've been on something that's knowingly way beyond me like 6c or so. Feels safer than bailing from halfway and eventually will work out cheaper than loosing a krab every time I guess. At Torbryann once, I just took a fall to each bolt below as the last one was easily down climable from.

A clipstick is your friend.

[Muenchener]

I know it's a punter comment, but do you feel happy baling off a single bolt if you can't get up it?

Yes, no worries at all. (I have an extensive collection of  fully-depreciated 1980s vintage karabiners so leaving one now and again effecteively costs nothing)

If you trusted the bolt to hold an 8kN-ish leader fall, why wouldn't you trust it to hold bodyweight when lowering? If you are at all worried about it, there's always the Petzl Prusik Trick.

Although, as Klevin said, stick clipping or A0 to the top can also be a good option.

[siderunner]

Kelvin, thanks for the clipstick idea, that makes sense. I've actually used one a fair bit for high first bolts, but never thought of pulling it up the route if stuck (doh!). I'll duct tape a suitable loop onto it immediately.


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[siderunner]

Muenchener, I do generally trust bolts, but if lowering off above the 6th bolt a failure is likely to result in death if it pulls. Often the bolt I'd be lowering off is the one everyone falls on, too.

Thanks for the excellent link. I've never seen that Prussic trick before - nifty. Though I wonder if people ever use it in practise?

Good point too about the retired krabs. I've got a sack of them! I'm now thinking maillion on top bolt and retired snapgate on the second to top.

Back jumping is also an option I'd forgotten. Actually did this once more than 10 years ago. Good fall practise as long as the runouts aren't too big on the way up.

Overall I see it's not as daunting as I thought. No excuses, time to MTFU.


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[Sasquatch]

I've always got a leaver biner on my harness, and no i don't generally mind lowering off a single if I have to.  The leaver biner is useful in MANY cases, beyond just not being able to finish a route. 

I'm kind of stuck at F7a (usually first redpoint go after one hanging the onsight) and been thinking of jumping on F7b or F7b+ to see what the next level feels like and as training. Basically to work out if I need more bouldering power or to train endurance.

Lots of good reasons to go for it, and I'd suggest to even look at 7c's.  Just get on the best quality you can and enjoy it. 

[Jaspersharpe]

This thread makes me shiver about the times we threaded bolts with a bit of cord (chalk bag belt usually) and abbed off after tying one end of the rope to the tat so we could pull it.

Dodgy old single bolts with rattly hangers. Worst case being a couple of hundred feet up on some 7c I couldn't fathom at Buoux when I was about 14, swinging off the tat to get back in to the belay ledge.

It was just normal practice at the time. Never thought twice. My fucking palms are sweating.

[petejh]

I know it's a punter comment, but do you feel happy baling off a single bolt if you can't get up it? Sadly I know no rope guns and in fact my partners struggle toproping F6c. Perhaps it's just a mental block.

If it's any help, I've been solo stick-clipping my way up routes trusting my life to a single bolt for years, for re-equipping/new routing - I'm not blase, I've placed enough bolts to know how good a good one is and how dangerous a bad one is. On sea-cliffs I've snapped around 10 non-stainless bolts with body weight - no not while clipsticking! So while I'm not suggesting you should automatically trust lowering/abbing from a single bolt, I do suggest that once you learn to identify the difference between a stainless and non-stainless, a glue-in or through-bolt and the main factors affecting their reliability - inland/coastal/wet streaks/loose rock, then you should be confident identifying when it's almost certainly safe to retreat from a single bolt. Not sure where you're based but most of the popular sport crags in the peak/yorkshire are well-equipped thanks to Kristian and others.

[lagerstarfish]

re backing off routes

I always favoured a fifi hook (and crab) with a prusik loop for pulling through

[krymson]

Found a good solution for now
-climbing with harder climbers. Means i climb harder routes all day and get worked more. Also lets me try routes at my limit easily.
-on days when not completely worked - finish off the day with either a fingerboard workout at home, or some endurance laps on plastic.

Can definitely say I've gotten back in shape and even gotten a bit stronger despite climbing outside 3-4 days a week last 2 weeks.

[Sasquatch]

Found a good solution for now
-climbing with harder climbers. Means i climb harder routes all day and get worked more. Also lets me try routes at my limit easily.
-on days when not completely worked - finish off the day with either a fingerboard workout at home, or some endurance laps on plastic.

Can definitely say I've gotten back in shape and even gotten a bit stronger despite climbing outside 3-4 days a week last 2 weeks.

Glad to hear it's worked out.  #1 is one of the surest routes to improvemt.  Changes your perspective in so many ways, and you tend to learn many subtle things you had no idea you were missing.  Sometimes yo don't even realize you're learning them. 

[krymson]

for sure. I've been getting good advice/motivation , and seeing someone do my projects also made them easier in my mind. I think you also tend to pickup good habits/attitudes.

Around the same level or a bit above seems to be the ticket for both partners to have fun and get worked.