[Muenchener]

May be true but has nothing to do with the point I was making, which was about the unwisdom from a safety point of view of pre-fatiguing the core before hitting the weights hard

[johnx2]

did some googling and it turns out I'm a rare example of someone being wrong on the internet...

http://www.criticalbench.com/training-abs.htm

The quoted bits that follow come from a guy who's neck's wider than his head, so I'm not inclined to argue. He debates:

> 4 - Depending on your goals, you can work them first or last. If your focus is abs then train them first. Weaknesses should be trained early on in the session when you are fresh

vs...

> 6- Do them last after your larger muscle groups as sacrificing core strength at the beginning of the workout can compromise safety and strength.

and concludes:

> Why would you fatigue your abs before doing any muscles that require your core as a primary stabilize?
> obvious that if you train your abs first, you won't have the core strength necessary to do certain leg exercises that require a fair amount of core strength. If your abs and core are fatigued from previous exercises, it can cause weakness on subsequent exercises and increase the risk of lower back injury...never sacrifice core strength and safety simply to get your ab training out of the way early even if it's your weakest body part.


(So I'm wrong, at least from a body building perspective but I'm not sure I want to change this aspect of my workout. I don't want to abandon a set of 90 jackkinfe situps, which I'd not be able to do, and woruld do with even shitter form at the end of my workout, perhaps injuring something, and I don't do heavy leg stuff any more. Anyway that's enough bodybuilding sites to keep me going for a while  )

[Falling Down]

IMHO I would steer clear of anything to do with "bodybuilding".  The objectives and the exercises are anything but athletic.

[a dense loner]

I do take a bit of umbridge with statements like this FD, well not really but it's often confusing. Bodybuilding is a very hard sport which takes as much if not more dedication than climbing. If we were to replace the word bodybuilding with lifting weights between 3 and 10 times per set, that would be better

[Falling Down]

  point taken 

[Gus]

May be true but has nothing to do with the point I was making, which was about the unwisdom from a safety point of view of pre-fatiguing the core before hitting the weights hard

You probably should have said that then rather than saying that you're working your abs by doing squats!!

[Muenchener]

I've never seriously trained back squats - don't want chunky thighs - but have done front squats/goblet squats sometimes. They require a more upright posture - generally good for climbers suffering from upper back hunch - and I also find they work the abs very hard to stabilise the position as extensively discussed higher up in this thread, both of which are good.

[webbo]

 I would have thought whether you train core first or do your weights first depends on your priority. If you are doing weights to look buff on the beach, then you would want to do weights first so you could go heavier.
However if climbing is the priority then weights are just an add on so you would want to give your best to your core as this is more likely to get you up your project, rather than an extra front squat.