[Falling Down]

I've been at my parents in Cilcain all week and done a few nice runs around Moel Famau, Moel Arthur and Pantymwyn.  It's been a real visceral pleasure running in the hills again compared to the Union canal and Regent's Park.  The legs aren't used to going up and down mind...

[SA Chris]

http://www.deesiderunners.com/?page_id=29

http://www.scottishhillracing.co.uk/Graphics/Maps/RA-0102-main.jpg

Any thoughts on this as a first race for a virgin? AS is as easy as it gets right? I've hiked and snowboarded (at night) most of the way from the top before, so know the terrain fairly well. Looks like not too huge a field either.

Too ill to do it Been full of cold since Wednesday, so decided probably not sensible in the crap weather.

Are these any good fur running in BTW? Managed to grab the last of the XLs.

http://www.rockrun.com/rab-lithium-jacket-formula-one

[bigtuboflard]

Got a similar jacket to that from Montane Chris, great for autumn and early winter running, especially when it's cool and breezy. Actually quite good in moderate rain and drizzle too as dries so quickly when running. Got it at a bargain price there too.


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[Monolith]

Looks good that Chris, nice find! I bought a pair of these for my winter cycling campaign but will be packing them into my fell running pack since they'll offer a bit more warmth than the thin Inov8 things I've got on really cold days:

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/GLPXHWG/planet-x-365-convertible-race-glove

Cheap too!

A bit nervous about the Langdale race now. All I've been doing is cycling for the past few months bar a 1.5 mile jog the other night with the dog that resulted in a bout of runner's knee! Should be ok on soft ground/ascent mind.

Many else in for this classic?

[T_B]

A bit nervous about the Langdale race now. All I've been doing is cycling for the past few months bar a 1.5 mile jog the other night with the dog that resulted in a bout of runner's knee! Should be ok on soft ground/ascent mind.

Many else in for this classic?

I guess I've been training specifically for it the past 3 wks and have clocked up over 5000m of ascent. I'm a bit over walking uphill tbh and dreaming of going bouldering on the grit! Having not been able to recce the course, I'm obviously hoping the weather is not ming, as it'd be a shame to get lost after all this build up. I reckon I must be fitter than I was pre hamstring tear (i.e. back at the end of May), but I'm trying not to have any expectations as I know how rough the ground is. If I can maintain a reasonable pace and not be in a 'hanging on for the finish' situation as per Holme Moss then I'll be happy.

[Fultonius]

Can't really claim to be doing any "fell running" but I have a conundrum:

Earlier in the year I tried to keep up with some runners doing a trot up from Coniston Water to the quarries and back down - cue IT band hell for a week or so. Tried a very unhilly run in my local park a week or two later and it flared up.

But.

The last 4 weeks I've jogged/skipped/trotted downhill with a pack on in America on numerous occasions. e.g. from Longs Peak (1500m descent, 25% of the steeper/stepped stuff jogged), half dome (again ~1500 descent, ~50% jogged/run, the rest walked (flat/uphill bits)) and numerous smaller stuff.

I did tire quite a bit on half dome, still suffering DOMS a few days later....but....IT bands generally ok.

SO, I think it's trying to go UPHILL too fast that makes mine flare. What's the simple advice for fixing this (not running uphill is not the answer!)

[bigtuboflard]

I had almost the exact opposite a few years back; could run uphill as hard as liked, flats were fine too but as soon as I headed down an incline, even slight, I was in pain and had to hobble.

Ended up with it being down to imbalance in my quads, hips and lower back muscles according to the physio at the time, fixed it with a bout of core stability exercises like single leg squats and lots of stretching. I expect you'll fix it with something similar albeit probably a different regime of exercises.


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[T_B]

Build up slowly with more frequent, short runs? Get a foam roller and roll your IT band regularly?

[mini]

Pretty much as suggested above, treat the route cause, which most likely is an already tight IT band. Rolling helps as well as squats and, for me, hip drops (standing sideways onto a step with one leg over the edge, then drop that leg to below the step, then lift up above and repeat).  Fairly common, let Google be your friend.

[JulieM]

Monolith & T_B - I know it's a bit early to be sure but looking at the long range forecast you'll have a cracking day for the Langdale race!

Didn't get much done in the last week due to a cold but managed to get out yesterday for an orienteering event on Birkett Common near Kirkby Stephen. It wasn't great for running (I struggle when there's a lot of stopping and starting) but I mainly did it for some navigation practice. Lots of fun, even if I mostly got burnt off by 14 year olds!

Possibly a stupid question but I've got another race this weekend and I was wondering what you guys normally do for a pre-race warm up? I struggled on Utterley Butterley as all I'd done was a quick run around the cricket ground followed by a short stretch, and by mile 2 my legs went a bit crampy and I struggled to get them relaxed again. I ended up walking for a bit until I got them moving properly and lost a lot of time so any advice would be appreciated.

[SA Chris]

Get a foam roller and roll your IT band regularly?

This. And a lacrosse ball, and stretching. Rowie had probs with IT and she did this.

[bigtuboflard]

Monolith & T_B - I know it's a bit early to be sure but looking at the long range forecast you'll have a cracking day for the Langdale race!

Didn't get much done in the last week due to a cold but managed to get out yesterday for an orienteering event on Birkett Common near Kirkby Stephen. It wasn't great for running (I struggle when there's a lot of stopping and starting) but I mainly did it for some navigation practice. Lots of fun, even if I mostly got burnt off by 14 year olds!

Possibly a stupid question but I've got another race this weekend and I was wondering what you guys normally do for a pre-race warm up? I struggled on Utterley Butterley as all I'd done was a quick run around the cricket ground followed by a short stretch, and by mile 2 my legs went a bit crampy and I struggled to get them relaxed again. I ended up walking for a bit until I got them moving properly and lost a lot of time so any advice would be appreciated.

It's really hard to judge as everyone has a different way of warming up. Personally I'm really lazy, and do at most about 5 mins of gentle jogging and little if any stretching but it works ok for me and seem to improve through the race.

Based on what you've said though you might want a longer warm up, perhaps a bit more light jogging and more stretching. Also don't underestimate what you eat before a race. If I'm taking it seriously I'll have something like porridge about 2 to 3 hours before even if it's an evening race in summer. Just works for me. And drink lots of water on the day too before the race starts.

Just experiment on training runs as to warm up routines and food/water and you'll land on something that works for you.


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[T_B]

Monolith & T_B - I know it's a bit early to be sure but looking at the long range forecast you'll have a cracking day for the Langdale race!

Shhh!

Possibly a stupid question but I've got another race this weekend and I was wondering what you guys normally do for a pre-race warm up? I struggled on Utterley Butterley as all I'd done was a quick run around the cricket ground followed by a short stretch, and by mile 2 my legs went a bit crampy and I struggled to get them relaxed again. I ended up walking for a bit until I got them moving properly and lost a lot of time so any advice would be appreciated.

I've experienced the same as you have with the shorter races, so I need to work out how to warm up effectively. I just jog around self-consciously for a bit wondering if I'm tiring myself out

I've noticed top runners seem to do 1- 2Km warm up for longer races, 2-3Km for shorter races. Dunno if they do strides or whatever, but I'm guessing so?

[Brannock]

Itband, really hurt mine in the glencoe skyline last year, pretty much limped the last 5km, think it was just the amount of ascent and descent. What really worked for sorting it out was side leg lifts , 3 x 30 each leg daily for a month, didn't bother with threadbands. Squats as well, squats are awesome.

[Stabbsy]

For me it depends on the race and how hard I'm going to be going at the start - on Saturday I did minimal warm-up (1k jog with knee-lifts/bum kicks), but that was a longish race with a downhill start. For a 5k/10k, I'd do similar but longer (2-3km) with some acceleration runs or harder efforts. For a short fell race, I'll normally do some hill efforts. I generally finish any harder efforts about 15/20 mins before the race. I've never really read any of the science behind this and just use the warm-up we do before track sessions as a bit of a guide - definitely need to do more as I've got older/quicker (not sure which is the over-riding factor!).

Itband, really hurt mine in the glencoe skyline last year, pretty much limped the last 5km, think it was just the amount of ascent and descent. What really worked for sorting it out was side leg lifts , 3 x 30 each leg daily for a month, didn't bother with threadbands. Squats as well, squats are awesome.

For IT band, what he said. Possibly depends on the cause, but my issue was weak glutes. Kept me out of running for 3 months last year, plus a couple of months to get back to any sort of pace. Bit of theraband initially, then side leg raises with leg angled back behind the hip to engage glutes, one-legged squats and foam rolling. Still do the exercises every week or so to prevent recurrence.

[JulieM]

It's really hard to judge as everyone has a different way of warming up. Personally I'm really lazy, and do at most about 5 mins of gentle jogging and little if any stretching but it works ok for me and seem to improve through the race.

Based on what you've said though you might want a longer warm up, perhaps a bit more light jogging and more stretching. Also don't underestimate what you eat before a race. If I'm taking it seriously I'll have something like porridge about 2 to 3 hours before even if it's an evening race in summer. Just works for me. And drink lots of water on the day too before the race starts.

Just experiment on training runs as to warm up routines and food/water and you'll land on something that works for you.

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Ta. Definitely regretted the greasy sausage butty a couple of hours before the race, running is much less forgiving of bad diet choices than cycling!

Good point about training runs. My usual evening loop is about 5 miles and I tend to run the first 3/4 of a mile (nicely downhill then flat) then stop for a decent stretch. That seems to work well for warming my legs up before the first uphill bit.

[JulieM]

Shhh!

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to jinx it! Weather forecast, what weather forecast?

I've experienced the same as you have with the shorter races, so I need to work out how to warm up effectively. I just jog around self-consciously for a bit wondering if I'm tiring myself out

I've noticed top runners seem to do 1- 2Km warm up for longer races, 2-3Km for shorter races. Dunno if they do strides or whatever, but I'm guessing so?

That seems like a good plan. I also worried about tiring myself out but I've found I don't tend to get into my stride until I've got a couple of miles under my belt. On a longer and slower run I can absorb it but for a short race I reckon an extra mile warming up would be well worth it.

[Monolith]

Can't really claim to be doing any "fell running" but I have a conundrum:

Earlier in the year I tried to keep up with some runners doing a trot up from Coniston Water to the quarries and back down - cue IT band hell for a week or so. Tried a very unhilly run in my local park a week or two later and it flared up.

But.

The last 4 weeks I've jogged/skipped/trotted downhill with a pack on in America on numerous occasions. e.g. from Longs Peak (1500m descent, 25% of the steeper/stepped stuff jogged), half dome (again ~1500 descent, ~50% jogged/run, the rest walked (flat/uphill bits)) and numerous smaller stuff.

I did tire quite a bit on half dome, still suffering DOMS a few days later....but....IT bands generally ok.

SO, I think it's trying to go UPHILL too fast that makes mine flare. What's the simple advice for fixing this (not running uphill is not the answer!)

Clamshells, clamshells, clamshells! This exercise helps your glute medius get a workout and you'll be surprised how long you'll be able to sustain this at first (not very long with a theraband of appropriate resistance!). Coupled with core exercises and glute bridges, I've learnt that these all keep ITB issues at bay. Some ideas here:

https://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/the-top-5-hip-strengthening-exercises-for-runners-to-prevent-injury-and-improve-hip-drive/


Shame I'm not practising what I preach though of late since a very short jog brought it on again for me the other day. Guess that's what you can expect if you don't run for a while and only cycle/fail to condition!

Saturday is going to kill me; Langdale followed by the annual all night Battle of Trafalgar party in Liverpool. 

[T_B]

Ref Langdale, I'm assuming they'll open a field for parking? Nowt on the FRA forum about this.

[Plattsy]

Yep where you'd normally turn right into the Olde Dungeon Ghyll car park at the T junction. The gate straight ahead will open into a field for the car park and registration. The start is over a bridge and through a gate. Don't forget to pick up your pie/pasty at the end from the pub and maybe have a wesh in the stream. 

Good luck and enjoy!

[Falling Down]

Heel pain - advice sought.

I turned my ankle over a couple of weeks back whilst running in Wales treading on a loose rock.  The usual yelp of pain and flash of stars in the head followed by some walking gingerly then realising it was OK so carried on with the run.  A bit of bruising and swelling in the ankle the next day but nothing serious.

Since then I've had some pain in the heel whilst walking.  It's entered specifically on the strike point, like a bruise rather than a sharp pain.

Went for a run yesterday and it hurt a few hours afterwards and was really sore getting up this morning and through the day.  Enough to wince and limp a bit whilst walking around.

I've had plenty of running injuries over the years but this is a new one.  Research on the web suggests it's not uncommon after turning an ankle is perhaps tendon related rather than a small fracture which would explain why it didn't hurt at all whilst running yesterday but was bad today.

Anyone else had anything similar and if so, any advice?

It's annoying as I've been keen to start running properly again but had a bad cold/lurgy in August and now this.

[SA Chris]

Have you tried rolling it by standing on a a lacrosse ball or similar? I sometimes get spasms in muscles under my feet and a good workout loosening them up helps.

I'd still see a specialist though.

[Falling Down]

Thanks Chris - it was much easier today and I've had a wiggle around getting changed after work. If I stress the foot/ankle in the same position as if I've twisted it it makes the heel hurt which suggests it's still a tissue injury from the twist rather than anything more serious.  I'll do some gentle jogging this week and see how it feels afterwards.  Good beta on the ball thing, I've never done that before so will give it a try, especially as I'm running a lot on Tarmac now compared to when I was in the Peak.

[Shabar]

Definitely endorse what everyone else has been saying about IT bands - weak glute med was the cause for me, all the aforementioned exercises helped, although I'd also recommend an all round strength and conditioning routine for glutes, quads, hamstrings, and core. I've been guilty of hammering the rehab for one issue, only to develop another a few months later as I've ended up a bit unbalanced. Plus strong core's good for climbing too innit. Plus massage/rolling/balling/selfmassage as much as you can. I go to London once a week and feel a bit self conscious using the hand rails on the tube to loosen glutes!

I'd also say that for any injury, including that heel pain, it's worth seeing a physio/GP if short on cash.. But self-diagnosing/listening to internet "experts" like myself (I'm sure others are way more qualified) is obviously sub-optimal compared to actually seeing someone who knows what they're doing.

On the warming up front, takes me a couple of miles. If it's a short race I'll do a few strides towards the end of my warm up, and I also throw in a bit of dynamic stretching before everything, even for steady training runs.

[galpinos]

Wasn’t sure where to put this so I’m plumped for here…….. Jasmin Paris! This year she has:

• Broken the Women’s Record for the Bob Graham Round
• Broken the Record for the Ramsay Round
• Broken the Women’s Record for the Paddy Buckley
• Broken the Record for the fastest cumulative time for the three rounds
• Finished 6th in the UTMB
• Won the Tromso Skyrce and the Glen Coe Skyline
• Won the Extreme Skyrunning title
• 3rd in the Skyrunning World Championships

Pretty bloody incredible year!