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Fat loss strategies (Read 10556 times)

Nibile

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Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 08:24:45 am
Usual wisdom from the source of all power. I wish I'd known this shit twenty years ago. I could have overlooked climbing technique even more.
http://www.t-nation.com/training/8-rules-for-fat-loss-training

tomtom

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#1 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 08:32:47 am
Usual wisdom from the source of all power. I wish I'd known this shit twenty years ago. I could have overlooked climbing technique even more.
http://www.t-nation.com/training/8-rules-for-fat-loss-training

Careful Nibs!
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train less to have the time to take care of your nutrition

lagerstarfish

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#2 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 08:49:29 am
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get outside


Stubbs

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#3 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 08:56:05 am
I'm sure there's a lot of sense in these articles, but then they ruin it by using this guy as an illustration!


tomtom

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#4 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 09:12:00 am
I suspect that picture is appealing more to the article/websites regular user demographic rather than ours ;)


slackline

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#5 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 09:36:52 am
I'm sure there's a lot of sense in these articles, but then they ruin it by using this guy as an illustration!



Thats not fat, thats big muscles bones!

abarro81

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#6 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 09:47:31 am
I have no idea what useful information I was supposed to take away from that article that wasn't freaking obvious?

Nibile

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#7 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 10:22:14 am
I have no idea what useful information I was supposed to take away from that article that wasn't freaking obvious?
What made you think that it was personally aimed at you Alex, apart from your paranoia?
I've been posting on here for long enough now to know that you are an infinite source of pure knowledge, and that nothing can sound new to your golden neurons.
But for us mere mortals, some things could still be a useful read, you know.
Oh, sorry, no you don't. Silly me.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 10:29:15 am by Nibile »

Nibile

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a dense loner

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#9 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 10:51:01 am
Smack him nibs, he's never had to do a hard move in his life, he's weak as piss. He's just tall with a kneepad

Wood FT

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abarro81

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#11 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 11:04:22 am
I just thought it was a shit article, or am I not allowed to say that for some reason? I'll use 'one' instead of 'I' next time if it'll piss you off less. I read a lot of articles on the web, and I thought that was near the bottom of the quality tree.. From your intro I was expecting something more.

benno

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#12 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 11:28:25 am
Thanks, Nibile.

Can you provide some links, Barrows? I've just recently got access to a good gym near my office and it's probably a good opportunity to actually trim off some of the "training ballast". I really don't like running (I know, boohoo...) and access to rowing machines could be a real boon for me actually getting on top of this stuff.

abarro81

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#13 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 11:52:50 am
I thought that this was an interesting read, though you have to pay for it:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Weight-Matt-Fitzgerald/dp/1934030511

As a slight aside, I'm unconvinced about using cardio which involves lower legs in order to manipulate weight if being light for climbing is your goal. This is quite personal - some people can do shit loads of it and not get big legs, but if I bike or use rowing machines etc it makes my legs big. Might not be fat, but still useless weight.
A number of others, e.g.
http://climbstrong.com/
http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/
also seem to not be taken with the idea of doing cardio work to benefit climbing unless you're obscenely unfit. The latter peeps also advocate ditching stuff like cycling in order to get light for climbing.

Paul B

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#14 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 12:19:10 pm
He's just tall with a kneepad

...and that's on a good day. On a bad day he's tall with two kneepads.  :chair:

Johnny Brown

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#15 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 12:34:47 pm
All you need to know. Just be sure to memorise the timetable.


Muenchener

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#16 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 02:30:47 pm
I'm unconvinced about using cardio which involves lower legs in order to manipulate weight if being light for climbing is your goal. This is quite personal - some people can do shit loads of it and not get big legs, but if I bike or use rowing machines etc it makes my legs big.

Same here. I've doing a fair bit of cycling and hillwalking lately because I have alpine goals, but I'm well aware that if I wanted to seriously try to get better at sport climbing the cardio would have to go. I'd have to resort to dietary discipline instead, which is harder.

duncan

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#17 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 30, 2014, 02:50:56 pm
I'm unconvinced about using cardio which involves lower legs in order to manipulate weight if being light for climbing is your goal. This is quite personal - some people can do shit loads of it and not get big legs, but if I bike or use rowing machines etc it makes my legs big.

Same here. I've doing a fair bit of cycling and hillwalking lately because I have alpine goals, but I'm well aware that if I wanted to seriously try to get better at sport climbing the cardio would have to go. I'd have to resort to dietary discipline instead, which is harder.

What those two said.

I ran, hill-walked, and did step-ups for about 9 months before the recent trip to Yosemite. Compared to before previous year's trip to Dolomites I was about 1.5-2kg heavier for a very similar body composition (determined visually but I'm pretty familiar with how things change with small body-fat variation).

benno

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#18 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 31, 2014, 03:13:59 pm
I thought that this was an interesting read, though you have to pay for it:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Weight-Matt-Fitzgerald/dp/1934030511

As a slight aside, I'm unconvinced about using cardio which involves lower legs in order to manipulate weight if being light for climbing is your goal. This is quite personal - some people can do shit loads of it and not get big legs, but if I bike or use rowing machines etc it makes my legs big. Might not be fat, but still useless weight.
A number of others, e.g.
http://climbstrong.com/
http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/
also seem to not be taken with the idea of doing cardio work to benefit climbing unless you're obscenely unfit. The latter peeps also advocate ditching stuff like cycling in order to get light for climbing.

Thanks, I'll take a gander. I'm quite interested in getting a copy of the Training Manual anyway!

On the weight loss front, I'm probably stuffed then. Having heavy legs seems to be something I'm predisposed to... perhaps from playing lots of hockey a few years back? Sprinting about the place in a half crouch is probably about the worst thing you could do to look good in your leggings, I'd have thought.

I guess I'll just have to eat better. I think step 1 of this plan should be getting a new job where the primary focus of half the work force isn't to bring cake in for the whole office. Literally every day this week! Don't they know my self-control is appalling?

Wood FT

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#19 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 31, 2014, 03:37:00 pm
On the weight loss front, I'm probably stuffed then. Having heavy legs seems to be something I'm predisposed to...

I can break your legs if you like? get them back down to a standard level in the non-active recooperation period. All the stars are doing it....

Reference: R.Hickish & N.Kershaw (Sheffield) 'Breaking Good: a study into alternative weight loss methods

benno

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#20 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 31, 2014, 05:03:44 pm
I can break your legs if you like? get them back down to a standard level in the non-active recooperation period. All the stars are doing it....

I remember it being postulated in the pub once that if you could find yourself an exceptionally heavy wheelchair and confine yourself to it for a while you'd end up with the idealised "tree trunks and pipe cleaners" bouldering physique...

danm

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#21 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 31, 2014, 09:21:23 pm
Reminds me of a climbing cartoon from years ago, the character had his brain and legs removed to save weight.

Tommy

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#22 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 31, 2014, 10:35:26 pm
Nibs, it's simple. It'll cost you a few notes, but colonic irrigation will see you right.

Quote
As for weight loss, the morning after my colonic and saw a 1.5 pound loss—not the 6 pounds I was hoping for, but a positive change.

Grades in exchange for cash!

fatdoc

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#23 Re: Fat loss strategies
July 31, 2014, 11:23:32 pm
Unless your legs explode with heavy muscle... Which I seriously doubt.. And u want a long term end game success, some leg bulk is nothing. Look at Gresham and Bentley.. Rounded physiques that have climbed 3 decades plus. Paul reeve can run darn well an all. The anorexic climber was in my age group, and have learnt a lot since then. Run 10 km in 50 mins. Make it a goal. In 15 years... You will have that CV prowess in yr quiver. More balance Alex, and others.. Or u will repeat the mistakes of previous generations...

abarro81

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#24 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 07:17:15 am
Im intrigued what you think the mistakes were?
You might be able to use that argument to convince me to do weights to work antagonists, but I'm not sure I see how running will help me stay climbing long term? (I ran a lot as a kid and it injured the hell out of me - issues with ankles, shins, knees and a stress fractured tibia. If anything is going to fuck my body long term I reckon it's running!)

psychomansam

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#25 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 08:19:22 am
As far as gaining muscle bulk on legs alex, it strikes me that it depends on your body type. If you're an Ondra-esque ectomorph then you won't gain bulk at all hardly. If youre a larger build, as we both are, then you will.
But you train for sport climbing where legs are largely pointless. In bouldering, the strong legs and arse from running can be useful.
Either way, if you're overweight, the net result is very likely to be positive. Perhaps not if you want to go from a 6 to an 8-pack

I'm actually more motivated by running goals at the minute, just enjoying some climbing around it while getting into shape gradually. So I don't mind my thunder-thighs! Quite proud of them.

T_B

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#26 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 08:44:36 am
I am a big build and cycle 50 miles to/from work per wk. I tend to try and 'spin', as some leg shaver types told me that I'd be less likely to put on muscle mass that way. Overall, I reckon I'm less chubby, though my thighs are probably a tad more developed than they used to be (and they've always been tree trunks  :'()

Nibile

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#27 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 08:51:00 am
I think it's important to distinguish between fat loss and weight management, especially dealing with climbing.
For the latter, almost anything could go. Dropping weight in order to climb a project has been done for ages, but it's a very short term strategy. Dehydration, a little fat loss and a lot of lean muscle loss often do the trick... And it works exactly because of the lean muscle loss: muscles weigh a lot more than fat. Then you gain back the lost weight and some more.
It goes along with (metabolic and health issues and) a loss of power which is more than compensated by the reduced weight. I used to run and cycle when I started climbing, and had massive thighs from years of basketball and squats. Running made me lose weight ALSO in my legs, but mostly in my arms and torso. Plus, I was always tired and couldn't progress in climbing according to the volume of (over)training that I was putting in.
Losing fat is another thing. It's a lot more difficult than losing weight.
Hence the completely different approach that's required, to keep power and muscles up.
I know for sure that since when I stopped running I haven't put on weight, I am stronger and I've had massive improvements in my climbing.
Sport climbing isn't a cardio activity, strictly speaking (Dave Mac's book), so anyone could enjoy a good run, but without getting fooled that it's good for the project route (unless it's just to drop weight, whatever weight it could be).
Having seen both sides, I would never, never, never go back to running and cardio.

lagerstarfish

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#28 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 09:30:34 am
Having seen both sides, I would never, never, never go back to running and cardio except for those essential times where jogging up and down the beach front with the guns on show will enhance the quality of my life via a significant increase in female attention

Nibile

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#29 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 09:53:06 am
Having seen both sides, I would never, never, never go back to running and cardio except for those essential times where jogging up and down the beach front with the guns on show will enhance the quality of my life via a significant increase in female attention
Fuggedaboutit.
 ;D

Stubbs

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#30 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 10:07:56 am

But you train for sport climbing where legs are largely pointless. In bouldering, the strong legs and arse from running can be useful

This is entirely bollocks. Why would which muscles are useful for climbing change because you put a harness on?

Nibile

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#31 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 12:18:32 pm
I am not sure that running makes for strong legs, unless specifically aimed at that.
Anyway, strong hamstrings and quick quads are useful for heelhooks, big dynos and jumps, but I think that just being able to do a single leg bodyweight squat is more than enough with no need for more.

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#32 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 12:41:07 pm
I am not sure that running makes for strong legs, unless specifically aimed at that.

Stronger yes, heavier not always. As psychosamn says, I think body type has a lot to do with it.


Stubbs

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#33 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 12:45:59 pm
I'm not even sure running makes your legs stronger, especially outside of the range of motion of the specific activity; fit and strong are not the same. I agree with Nibs that single leg squats are a better measure of more climbing specific leg strength.

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#34 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 01:12:21 pm
I've followed T nation for a long time. He know's his shit for sure. I believe that diet is as important if not more so than actual exercise for low body fat %, recovery etc. The days of cardio and low calories for fat loss are long gone. At 40 having just started climbing I am interested to see (Once finger strength is reasonable) which avenue allows the quicker progression, increased muscle strength or lowering body fat (Good luck with that balance). My guess is technique and flexibility. I suppose once you reach a peak technically all you have left is to improve raw power??? With every problem unique doesn't technique continue to evolve??? Every days a school day n all that?

SA Chris

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#35 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 01:43:06 pm
I think control of body fat is all down to how much you realistically have to lose?

As you say, I don't think anyone ever reaches "peak technique". As you progress through the grades and get onto steeper and harder stuff there are always new techniques to learn. The curve defintely flattens as you progress though.

tomtom

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#36 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 01:43:19 pm
Flexibility is over-rated :) I'm really inflexible.. But do alright.... I've always thought other things (mainly strength related) hold me back more!

rodma

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#37 Re: Fat loss strategies
August 01, 2014, 09:02:08 pm
Flexibility throughout the range of motion you are likely to encounter whilst pulling at our near your limit is really important unless you're actively trying to tear or snap something. Flexibility beyond any useful range of motion is a bit of a waste of time.

 

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