[Doylo]

I'm after a shoe for steep limestone, like a 5.10 team but with a better heel would be ideal (preferably with rubber on the toe). Any suggestions?

[Jaspersharpe]

Wear Boreal and pretend you've done all your projects when nobody was there?

[Doylo]

Wear Boreal and pretend you've done all your projects when nobody was there?

I can't I'm a Christian 

[Jaspersharpe]

Me too. More American Hustle than American Psycho these days though...

[tomtom]

Flip flops. Ultimate hustler potential.

[cha1n]

Join the queue, I've been waiting a long time...

I'm quite enjoying my (new color) blackwings as a more comfortable alternative to dragons these days but it seems that if you have five ten feet there's nothing about at the moment.

I'm looking forward to the arrival of the five ten hiangle. A leather slipper built on the dragon last. Have you ever tried the solutions? I probably would have switched by now if the solutions didn't aggravate one of my toenails on one foot.

I haven't tried any on yet but I'm hoping to stop in banana fingers and try on the nexxo and booster vs.

[Doylo]

I thought about solutions but reluctant to buy without seeing if they're up to the task. As it happens I'm having to wear whites because the sag in the heel works so well on this spike. Not ideal for the rest of the route though.

[andymarshll]

I mostly wear teams and Dragons and I really like the Sportiva pythons for the heel, they're not as down turned as the dragons but I never popped off a toe hold in them that I didn't in the others as well, and they RRP at £95! 

Good luck finding a place that sells em though, I had to order mine through work, if you decide to take a punt on the web I'm a 7.5 in Dragons as they are now, 8 in the teams and 38.5 in the pythons.

[Nibile]

The heel in the Solutions is bomber but not for every placement. Being rounded has to be worked very well, but then it will stay there. Lots of stretch though and not precise as Teams and Dragons.

[tc]

Scarpa Instinct VS?

[tomtom]

Scarpa Instinct VS?

Was just thinking that... I've found the heel to be very snug on them.. not as 'pointy' as the heel on a Dragon, but has proved very effective so far..

[cha1n]

I never quite liked the scarpa vs, I found them to be a really weird level of stiffness and never really got much power from the toe. Have also heard stories of the toe rubber not being durable but perhaps this isn't a universal problem?

The way I look at it, top climbers *generally* wear Five ten Dragons/Teams/Whites depending on terrain or La Sportiva Solution/testarossa/futura/muira VS and they must choose these models for a reason. If you've never tried on a solution before you definitely should.

I've used around 25 models of shoes in the 5 years I've been climbing (mainly just used them until I decided I don't like them and sold them on) and the solution is by far the most comfortable performance shoe I've ever tried on. I even considered having the toenail it aggravates permanently removed just so I could wear them! The plastic moulded mid-sole in the solution forces your toes into this curled position but not your standard 'bunched up in a tight shoe position' it's hard to explain but it forces my toenails down into the sole even if my nails are very short! It's Dragons/Teams/Blackwings for me until something better comes out.

As it happens, I think the solution is very good on spikes. I was working a problem with someone where my dragon/blackwing heel was just sliding off of a spike because it was so soft, whereas the solid heel of the solution didn't budge at all and being solid, was far less painful. I've considered buying a pair of shoes with a more solid heel just for these situations (which seems to happen more on edgy granite or limestone), something cheap like a python.

[Stubbs]

The way I look at it, top climbers *generally* wear Five ten Dragons/Teams/Whites depending on terrain or La Sportiva Solution/testarossa/futura/muira VS and they must choose these models for a reason.

That reason being that they get them for free? There a plenty of pros not sponsored by those two companies who seem to do OK.

[cha1n]

That reason being that they get them for free? There a plenty of pros not sponsored by those two companies who seem to do OK.

I never said sponsored, I just mean top performing climbers. People climbing the intermediate/high font grades must still have a good idea of what makes a shoe good. I've forgot my 'best' shoes before and had to make do with my old/crappy warm-up shoes, etc and it doesn't usually have a massive effect on my climbing but I wouldn't want to do it all the time. Climbing in shoes that don't feel right isn't pleasant, well in my opinion anyway.

[cha1n]

I was also speaking generally, of course there are other good shoes out there but you mostly see the ones mentioned with some of the scarpas breaking onto the scene. You even see these Boreal things sometimes, or is that just Mr and Mrs Buys?! 

[Doylo]

The thing is with heels is that it's specific to the placement on the rock. Sometimes you need a snug fit and good shape and others  (like in my case) you need a bit of sag to hook on to something spikey. The best general heel hooking shoe in the world could still be useless on a specific hook. This stuff can make the difference at your limit. I'm always making modifications to boots. Team/Dragons are wank heels tho IMO and no good on hard/tricky placements.

[cha1n]

I'm always making modifications to my boots too. Couldn't get my heel to sit at the bottom of the shoe in my blackwings so I cut the material away down to the ankle wrap-around band so my heel now fits in perfectly. Dragons are a lot lower anyway so I didn't need to do anything to those. Had to do the same thing to my Jet 7's. I need to find a decent glue that will still rubber to the toe area now. Haven't managed that one yet.

[Doylo]

Two part glue does the job, you can get it from B n Q or even supermarkets.  Usually comes with a nozzle you screw on and is more than strong enough for gluing rubber on toes.  I wear the shoe when i'm gluing but it can get a bit hot as the glue sets!

[Paul B]

Didn't Dylan burn himself doing that?

[iwasmexican]

The thing is with heels is that it's specific to the placement on the rock. Sometimes you need a snug fit and good shape and others  (like in my case) you need a bit of sag to hook on to something spikey. The best general heel hooking shoe in the world could still be useless on a specific hook. This stuff can make the difference at your limit. I'm always making modifications to boots. Team/Dragons are wank heels tho IMO and no good on hard/tricky placements.

Shoes are definitely a tool that depends on the job, that being said I think the teams have the best all round heel except when the anasazi baggy bit catches. Would also say the pythons are great all round, definitely my favourite general shoe.

[cha1n]

Brave, I just pack out the shoe with newspaper.

I think my problem is the rubber I've been using is too thin. Perfect for comfort but it's quite stretchy, I think I'll have to use rand rubber in future.

[Richie Crouch]

I'm a big fan/convert of the instinct VS Chris. Given them a good beating in the cave and elsewhere and they haven't fell apart or worn through the toe box rubber which feels quite thin when new.

They are quite stiff like, so not as easy to get on with straight away and take a fair amount of time to feel soft enough for shit smears (where I'd still prefer a team instead). The heel fits really well for me compared to teams and dragons and isn't the hard cup of the old style solutions. They are really comfortable too for a toe down and don't crush the little toe either.

[SA Chris]

And at circa £100 + a pair they definitiely they are definitely a steep rock shoe.

[Sasquatch]

I disagree with the solutions having a decent heel for heel hooking.  I think they're generally crap at heel hoking evn though they're my favorite shoe.

On any marginal placement they're rubbish.  They have a hard heel cup that doesn't mold at all. 

[Doylo]

 

I disagree with the solutions having a decent heel for heel hooking.  I think they're generally crap at heel hoking evn though they're my favorite shoe.

On any marginal placement they're rubbish.  They have a hard heel cup that doesn't mold at all.

Interesting, I guess down pointers and good heels don't go hand in hand.