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Bolts on Peak Limestone (Read 34337 times)

Boredboy

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#75 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 07:34:35 pm
A bolted lower off at the top of bitterfingers, WTF. The tree abseil or walk round and down the terraces above wee doris always seemed fine to me, and an essential part of the trad climbing experience. I'm not sure where this is going but it seems like a bit of a poke in the eye to peak limestone trad climbing. I can't believe the BMC thought it was a good idea?   :chair: In the same league as the bolt at Millstone.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 07:43:54 pm by Boredboy »

Johnny Brown

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#76 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 07:44:20 pm
The BMC didn't think it was a good idea. As far as I can gather this has not been mandated by anyone other than the perp.

Whilst on the subject, worth noting that the BMC exists as a representative body, not a governing body (with some recent exceptions on comps I think). So if 'the BMC' think something is a good idea, it should and usually does mean interested local climbers have voted on the issue in a democratic manner.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 07:50:39 pm by Johnny Brown »

Boredboy

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#77 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 07:57:05 pm
Fair enough, I guess I just assumed it had been discussed and then acted on based upon the democratic process you describe.

dave

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#78 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 07:58:59 pm
Perhaps the phantom millstone anglegrinder fairy will pay stoney a visit.

r-man

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#79 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 09:17:15 pm
In response to your comment on the other thread, the 'backward' Peak area comment came from Koscis, in reference to Wilton and other Lancs quarries where selected retro-ing and lower-offs had been mandated at a BMC area meet... though that has since blown up in their face with Phil Kelly resigning his membership of the BMC etc, and I believe many of the bolts are now being chopped.

Have you been talking to Phil? ;)

Retro-ing was only for bolts to replace pegs in water courses. Where trad gear is now possible, pegs are to be removed. Lower offs will be placed at specific parts of Lester Mill and Anglezarke.

"Blown up in their face"? Phil wasn't happy with the decision, so is complaining. It was a democratically voted decision. Phil's complaints have caused some discussion on facebook.

The only bolts being chopped are those in the lower-off on one route at Wilton 1, that have been placed with no BMC agreement. This has nothing to do with the lower-offs agreed at the meeing. As far as I'm aware, none of these have even been placed yet.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 09:32:55 pm by r-man »

Peak Performance

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#80 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 09:44:28 pm
Robin

You have completely missed the point. I was not only unhappy at the decision, but the way the decision was arrived at, and a whole range of other factors which were not discussed at the meeting.

One of these factors was sufficient to see the resignation of the NW area chair, as you will be aware.

All this of course in reference to placing bolt lower offs at a venue which has been proud to be an almost totally traditional venue for decades and which, now it is owned by the BMC, is in the first throes of being brought to its knees in the name of climbing.

To me, that's shit.

In future, please don't make assumptions about my actions. Speak to me first.

Phil

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#81 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 10:03:06 pm
The tat on the trees above Dead Banana/ Bitterfingers has been replaced with a triple 'P' bolt lower-off. Total overkill in my opinion and appears to have been placed by someone inexperienced - bolts sticking miles out, and why the third bolt? Why any bolts in fact? What's wrong with tat on the trees?

The handline to approach the left routes on Garage buttress is rigged on new bolts which replace the old thread belay below Helicon, Gerremdown etc. This is rigged on alloy caving hangers with steel bolts, and judging by the dust underneath quite freshly installed. Given that these hangers are both weaker (15kN vs 25kN), more expensive (£3.50 vs £2) and shorter lived, I can only assume they were chosen to allow the bolter to use 8mm bolts instead of 10 or 12mm. Which presumably are cheaper and saved his drill bit. The handline is then badly rigged only illustrating the rigger doesn't understand what Bunny knots are for. I would have sorted this but the maillons needed a spanner. All quite irritating given there is a perfectly adequate thread two feet away and good natural gear placements.

This just sounds like a total clusterfuck.

dr_botnik

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#82 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 11:11:09 pm
Don't see the point in all these bolts at stoney when there's plenty needs doing at intake quarry? Several anchors need a second bolt on the takeaway wall. Understandably there's higher priorities as these are 8m of f6 climbing in a banned location. (Would the latter exclude it from the PBF or BMC drill rota thingy?) but still, the condition of the lower offs probably make's the risk of an accident higher  :whistle:

r-man

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#83 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 14, 2014, 11:14:50 pm
Robin

You have completely missed the point. I was not only unhappy at the decision, but the way the decision was arrived at, and a whole range of other factors which were not discussed at the meeting.

One of these factors was sufficient to see the resignation of the NW area chair, as you will be aware.

All this of course in reference to placing bolt lower offs at a venue which has been proud to be an almost totally traditional venue for decades and which, now it is owned by the BMC, is in the first throes of being brought to its knees in the name of climbing.

To me, that's shit.

In future, please don't make assumptions about my actions. Speak to me first.

Phil

Sorry Phil, I was trying to be concise and objective about the situation. I am aware you have other grievances but what I said was my best attempt to convey the gist in a straightforward way. Perhaps I failed.

At the very least, I hope I cleared up a few misconceptions about retro-bolting and bolt chopping.

It is a shame Nick has resigned, I thought he was doing a good job.

However, this thread isn't about Lancashire and I don't think anyone except you and me want to argue about it. I don't really either - it just seemed that a false narrative of events had somehow evolved, and I made the foolish error of trying to straighten out the story. Doh.

Sidehaas

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#84 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 09:26:42 am
We discovered the bolts at the top of dead banana and bitterfingers a couple of months back. Hadn't been up for a couple of years before that so not sure how 'new' they are or aren't.
One thing I will say is that I thought the two trees up there now both look pretty knackered and in my opinion the 'traditional' descent of abbing off them is now unacceptable and dangerous. So if the bolts are chopped,  its important to ensure that people know a path exists (via the new guide if nothing else). I think a lot of people ab because they think it's the only way.
I thought the bolts were unnecessary but to be fair they are at least well hidden - you can't see them until right on top of them. Personal view is that now they are there, for now they are best left alone.
Agree about the poor configuration of the rigged rope on garsge. I hadn't been to those routes before so didn't realise it was new.

slackline

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#85 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 09:43:05 am
the new guide


 :lol:

I guess that might see the light of day in a few years.

kc

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#86 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 10:16:50 am
 :offtopic:
This thread got split before into "Retro bolting of Peak Trad".
It was about technical and organisational issue regarding the Peak Bolt Fund which has nothing to do with the issues being discussed here. No PBF drills or bolts will be used for this kind of thing unless requested for assess and conservation.

kc

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#87 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 10:18:44 am
Now split. Beat me to it Sam well done!

Johnny Brown

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#88 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 10:56:44 am
Sorry, my mistake. Perhaps someone could rename the threads so it is clearer which is which. Though fwiw I'm not sure any bolt thread will ever be entirely free from ethical concerns...

danm

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#89 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 01:31:53 pm
Keeping the thread back on topic, final reminder that the workshop is tomorrow at 6pm, Horseshoe. Looking forward to seeing some of you. Adam, are you planning to come and bring your bolt tester, if not I will bring the BMC one (it's not as portable though!)

iain

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#90 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 03:40:59 pm
I'll be there, see you tomorrow.

Johnny Brown

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#91 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 15, 2014, 05:17:55 pm
Yes I will bring our pull tester.

danm

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#92 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 17, 2014, 12:49:28 pm
Great to see so many of you turn up for the workshop! Thanks for coming, now get out there whilst the psyche is there  :)

KC is making sure that the PBF have glue etc to go with the bolts, and the list of what needs doing is up on the other thread http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,24464.0.html. As KC suggested, best to look at routes in your grade range, and even better that you are familiar with.

If you need any kit like a drill, blower and brushes and the PBF stuff is already out, you can loan the BMC kit from me via this site.

Johnny Brown

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#93 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 17, 2014, 12:58:21 pm
Abracadabseil's angle grinder is also available to borrow, free for good causes, be assured applications will be treated in the strictest confidence.

danm

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#94 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 17, 2014, 01:17:17 pm
Yep, thanks for coming Adam and showing the other side of the coin. Long live the Phantom de-Retrobolter  :ang:

SamT

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#95 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 17, 2014, 01:54:14 pm

Props to Dan, Kris, Adam and all those that turned up.  Was a good evening and good to see some psyche !!  Lets convert that into some action and see some of the things on the list sorted out!   :great:

mark20

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#96 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 17, 2014, 02:05:37 pm
Thanks all, was very useful.  :beer2:
I've got a big comfy harness if anyone wants to borrow it, maybe it could stay with the PBF kit
I look forward to getting stuck in and sorting some routes out

iain

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#97 Re: Bolts on Peak Limestone
July 17, 2014, 05:24:23 pm
Was indeed very useful, thanks all.

To the other Ian, drop me a pm if you want to head back to Toys.

 

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