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The Rock Climber's Training Manual (Read 22638 times)

Tommy

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#25 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 08:41:07 pm
Shut up. I train like a Horst, not eat like a Horst. How rude!

2 Tru

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#26 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 12, 2014, 05:18:43 pm
So the Anderson's advice seems to be based around a season long periodisation plan but what if you have 6 weeks until you next trip, what type of training should you prioritise?

The next weekend I am free to climb outdoors is 6 weeks time  :boohoo:

I climbed DNA in the Grande Grotta back in May this year along with a 6c flash in the Ivory Tower sector. I'd like to repeat the same grades in the UK probably at Portland, obviously the climbing style is quite different to the Grande Grotta presumably less upper body strength more finger strength/ endurance.

I know for the grade my fingers are pretty weak so should I spend the next 6 weeks getting stronger or trying to improve endurance following some energy system shizzle. I understand that the general advice is to work your weakness but what if you lack finger strength and endurance?

Thanks for your help.

duncan

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#27 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 13, 2014, 10:59:57 am
The book is available from Cordee so probably in shops shortly.

[edit: currently out of stock, I guess some people have been reading this thread]

[edit 2: outside have it]

Rocksteady

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#28 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
November 27, 2014, 02:10:24 pm
For anyone that's interested in whether this book works, I can offer my experiences of having followed a 17 week training cycle attempting to follow the Andersons' schedule. Apologies for the long post - don't read it if you don't want the boring details!

Caveat - I started two weeks in, so had two weeks less of doing ARCing when I was mostly bouldering instead.

Starting ability: At the start of the year I discovered board training, and made significant improvements, going from being a V4/5ish climber to being able to do V6 in a session indoors and out. This was followed by pretty bad shoulder impingement. So I had a long phase where I was doing lots of antags and rehab but keeping going doing easy climbing once or twice a week. I'd managed F7a in 2 goes earlier in the year, which is about the same as I'd been able to do the previous year.

Goals: I was really experimenting on myself with this programme to see if it worked. My aim was to redpoint a F7b+, which would be a step up of one grade from my previous best of F7b in 2013 and 2012. As a Londoner there was nothing 'local', but I had a few options I'd scoped out at Portland and in Cheddar.

Workouts: NB throughout the programme I kept antagonist sessions going 1-3 x a week to keep my shoulder in shape.

First phase 4 weeks: 7 x ARCing sessions, 4 bouldering sessions, 1 x outdoor redpointing session with some mileage
I found ARCing quite hard to manage. I was mostly using an autobelay and traversing. I found it difficult to carry out these sessions at a busy climbing wall, with people queueing for the autobelay and looking grumpy. I generally would do 10 minutes autobelay at a time then try to do traversing for a bit waiting for autobelay to come free. I also did sessions where I did up-down-up of easy routes on lead, alternating with my mate. These were easier to manage but probably not ARCing or aerobic capillarisation, and more towards easy anaerobic training.
At the end of the 4 weeks I'd definitely improved my aerobic fitness for climbing.

Second phase: 4 weeks strength training. 7 x hangboard workouts, 3 x low-mid intensity routes sessions (probs PE), 1 x ARCing, 1 x above limit redpointing session trying an 8a.
I didn't manage to do all the sessions I'd intended - ideally I wanted 9 fingerboard sessions and some more ARCing. But I had some holiday etc. Also I did the fingerboarding mainly at home, so my volume of actual climbing was quite reduced. I followed the Andersons' beginners hangboard protocol of doing repeaters for 10 seconds on: 5 seconds rest x 5 reps, 5 grips. I used a Beastmaker 2000, which I've tried before but never with repeaters.
I initially tried to do this with bodyweight, but found I was nowhere near reaching 10 seconds on most of the grips. So after the first session I actually set up a makeshift pulley with a sling and took off 10kg, removing weight after each session. This way I actually made good measurable gains, with the last hangboard session with -7.5kg on grips that were hard for me, and no weight removed on the easy grips. I was pleased with this phase as (1) I identified that my fingers are actually pretty damn weak, (2) I particularly identified that if I remove my index finger I struggle to hang even good holds for 10 seconds.
I felt that my finger strength improved over this period, but more it was a kind of localised power endurance. I felt that what improved the most was an ability to hold bad-ish holds for longer, eg. while clipping. In my routes sessions I did some onsights of indoor routes that I think I would have failed on without this training. However, in future I'd be more inclined to reverse the protocol and do 5 seconds on: 10 seconds rest. I think this would be more aimed at increasing real strength and I'd be confident in making significant gains. Almost 4 weeks didn't feel enough, but I did start to feel a little bit tweaky so think it was enough. Following the discipline of the programme helped me to do this.

Phase 3: 3 weeks power training. 3 x campus sessions, 3 x limit bouldering sessions. I deliberately kept to only 2 sessions a week as I thought this would help with recovery and maximum power. I made rapid power gains in this phase, bringing me almost back to my previous V6ish strength in February. However, in the campus sessions I did too much 'warm up' bouldering and not enough campussing. By the time I started campussing I was a bit tired. I made some progress on the campus board but not much. Also 3 weeks felt very short. But at least I didn't get injured.

Phase 4: 3 weeks power endurance. 4 x circuit PE sessions, 4 x bouldery routes redpoint sessions -this is where I put some time in on my redpoint goal project. I didn't feel like I got this phase right. I did make a 2nd go redpoint of a bouldery 7a+ in my first week in this phase, which I think was testament to the efficacy of the previous two phases. This was probably a PB for me, especially as my climbing partner who is usually significantly stronger than me took 5 goes on the route to do it. However, in this phase I struggled to make significant progress on my goal route, a 7b+ called Infernal Din at the Cuttings. It has 3 distinct cruxes - a 5 move pinch and compression problem at about V4/5 (poor rest), a four move compression problem into a dynamic slap at about V3/4, (poor shakeout opportunity) and then a tricky 3 move rockover off a bad pinch and thin feet at about V4, followed by 4 or 5 easyish V2ish moves to the top.
I also struggled to find the right intensity on the PE sessions. My focus was a circuit I'd worked out in the system room that at the start I was able to do 20ish hand moves on, and after 3 weeks had got up to 30ish moves. But in retrospect I think they were too easy, and although very pumpy didn't replicate the power needed for the goal project. I also missed a few sessions here due to work and social stuff and think I could have tolerated more training (and have done in the past).

Peak phase: 3 weeks. 2 x route laps sessions, 2 x outdoor redpointing session, 1 x indoor redpointing session. I hadn't planned any proper trips to peak for, as it was sort of an arbitrary training plan based on the rest phase at the end falling in a 2 week non-climbing holiday with the missis. I didn't send my goal project, though my last session I managed to do it in overlapping halves. On another intended redpoint project in Cheddar I had 2 goes on it before having to go, one getting the beta and one serious go, where I managed it with 3 rests (it was a bit wet). This was significantly easier than the Cuttings project - in fact it felt a full grade easier. Indoors I managed a pumpy F7a in a couple of sessions which for me is quite good as I definitely favour power-style routes over PE.

Did the training work? I think so. I need to work out the power endurance phase, which I think was unsuccessful, and also next time I would try to peak with a trip in mind. I didn't get enough outdoor climbing in either. I also bit off more than I could chew on the Cuttings redpoint project, which was very beta intensive and body-position specific. I also think (based on my experience and a few other people trying it since the hold at the top broke) that now it's more of a 7c than a 7b+.

Not an unalloyed success, but not bad either. I quite enjoyed the variety of sessions in the periodised programme. I'd try it again for sure. Though I'm looking forward to a winter bouldering season which I'll probably be really weak for now.

So did the training work?





nai

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#29 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
November 27, 2014, 09:56:15 pm
As I read I noted a few things but you summed them up yourself.

Quote
I need to work out the power endurance phase, which I think was unsuccessful.

I didn't get enough outdoor climbing in either

PE is hard to get right until you've done it a few times and even then it takes a few sessions to set a circuit, get the intensity right, iron out stopper moves and getting the rest times right is tricky too.  I can't see how the three sessions they schedule can be enough (or how working bouldery routes constitutes PE training?) I reckon to make any difference to me this phase would need to extend to around 10 circuit sessions and I'd probably double-up the session with some Foot-on-campussing too.  Also needs to be specific, you mention it was 30 moves long yet your route was only 16/17 moves so not surprising that it was more pump than power. 

Unfortunate that you could only manage six outdoor sessions after all that training.  I've managed to work a plan around when I'll have time and connies might be ok then worked backwards from there.  Luckily this fits well around school holidays, etc but unfortunately I crocked my back extending my last performance phase to try and get the route done and am now restricted to nothing more strenuous than ARCing.

Quote
I felt that my finger strength improved over this period, but more it was a kind of localised power endurance.

Think it's been mentioned elsewhere that it isn't pure strength training.  My take on it has been to do sets of 4 & 3 hangs and I'm planning to add in a 1-rep-max later in the phase next time around.

Good start, probably take a few cycles before the benefits really start to show, are you planning to follow the bouldering cycle for winter then get back into another routes phase?



Sasquatch

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#32 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 18, 2015, 12:59:42 am
A partner and I are just finishing a mostly RCTM structured plan.  So far, I feel fitter than ever for routes, and nearly there for bouldering despite currently being 10-12 lbs heavier than in the fall.  this is also the first year in the last three that I haven't had an injury set me back, so that could also be the basis for being fitter/stronger than ever.  I don't have a good route to test myself on at the moment, so it's all conjecture for me.

My partner is heading to Smith for a week and we'll see how he does.  I think he's seen tremendous gains and will continue to, but I'm not sure if it will show in Smith for him as it'll be his first days outside this year as well, ad that can be a tough transition.  He's got more of a sport climbing background, so the power and strength emphasis has really helped him step up. 

My overall impression is that sport climbers who aren't into bouldering and are relatively weak as a result would see great gains from the focus on strength and power.  For those who already boulder quite a bit, and enjoy both, I think you could develop a better plan focused on peaking for both and generally allowing for more quality rock sessions throughout. 

blamo

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#33 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 18, 2015, 04:03:28 am
I think you could develop a better plan focused on peaking for both and generally allowing for more quality rock sessions throughout. 
:please:

Please elaborate...  Getting climbing advice for the moderately weak is miserable.  Everyone in the 8A range seems to make 7C climbing seem so obvious...  Same with 8a+ to 8b+.  I have been taking the Bill Ramsey approach.  http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=127383963

 :wall:

mctrials23

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#34 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 18, 2015, 07:09:33 pm
Anyone fancy selling me one of these on the cheap?

Sasquatch

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#35 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 19, 2015, 12:36:34 am
I think you could develop a better plan focused on peaking for both and generally allowing for more quality rock sessions throughout. 
:please:
Please elaborate...  Getting climbing advice for the moderately weak is miserable.  Everyone in the 8A range seems to make 7C climbing seem so obvious...  Same with 8a+ to 8b+.  I have been taking the Bill Ramsey approach.  http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=127383963
I think the big difference I would make is to adapt the FB cycle to include a bouldering session 1 out of 3 sessions.  And add in max recruitment to the FB cycle.  Then you'd peak for bouldering during the later part of the campus/boulder 4 week cycle.  Then transition to PE and sport routes just after. 

blamo

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#36 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 19, 2015, 12:49:07 am
Thanks for your suggestion.   :clap2:

So it is sort of a mix.  Seems like there is always a place to improve on being a better climber.  I feel like the focus on always getting stronger blurrs this...  I recently climbed with someone who pointed out various technique flaws that I have and it enabled me to do certain moves which I would normally write off as "need to go home and spend X more months on the hangboard to do the move."  :slap:

TheTwig

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#37 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 19, 2015, 03:16:53 am
I did a season of the RP method (following the book) and made some pretty good gains. Just got back from the end-of season trip a few weeks ago.

In summary: E1's were my best trad onsight, and had done about 30 of them, but they were all desperately hard and usually took me ages. Had a good season and made solid gains on the fingerboard (I think it was avg 15% improvement per grip over the STR phase), did the hardest indoor boulders I've ever done by end of power phase and likewise PE phase. Had a 10 day rest before going to Symonds Yat/Wye Valley (not exactly known for soft routes!) and did 5 E2's onsight (one of them an E2 5c), as well as effectively running up E1's. Despite ongoing problems with tennis elbow that are being dealt with I'm in the best climbing shape of my life : )

My progress pre RCTM was glacially slow and frustrating, so I'm a happy bunny.  :clap2:

Sidethought: periodized trainining is brilliant for forcing you to rest/change up what you are doing. As a chronic over-climber it's been a godsend mixing it all up a bit and having rest periods that I stick to

nai

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#38 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 19, 2015, 09:41:31 am
I think you could develop a better plan focused on peaking for both and generally allowing for more quality rock sessions throughout. 
:please:
Please elaborate...  Getting climbing advice for the moderately weak is miserable.  Everyone in the 8A range seems to make 7C climbing seem so obvious...  Same with 8a+ to 8b+.  I have been taking the Bill Ramsey approach.  http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=127383963
I think the big difference I would make is to adapt the FB cycle to include a bouldering session 1 out of 3 sessions.  And add in max recruitment to the FB cycle.  Then you'd peak for bouldering during the later part of the campus/boulder 4 week cycle.  Then transition to PE and sport routes just after.

While I didn't stick rigidly to the plan I did max recruitment as part of my FB phase and did indeed peak for strength and power after the campus/limit boulder cycle.  If you're planning to go on to routes I was wondering whether some AnCap work might be a good addition at this point too? Although I realise that starts to complicate on what should be a simple program. 
Big puzzle for me is that something has killed, or at least wounded, my Aerobic Capacity, I did a prolonged base phase (8 weeks x 3hrs) due to injury so it was sky high and have been maintaining it at an hour a week but for some reason it's just not at the same level it was last year when doing far less (2 weeks x2hrs base, 40 minutes/wk maintenance).  I was doing a lot of running last year that I haven't been this year  :worms:

blamo

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#39 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 19, 2015, 02:46:55 pm
I was doing a lot of running last year that I haven't been this year  :worms:

How much running is a lot?  I have found a moderate amount of running (20 km / week) to not hinder my climbing and probably help my overall fitness. When I have cut out running, in the past, I haven't noticed any benefit. 

nai

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#40 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 19, 2015, 06:32:12 pm
100-180km per month. It wasn't in an attempt to improve my aerobic capacity or climb harder, I just like running and the local feels were bone most of last summer. Unfortunately back problems have prevented me doing any for a while, I'm sure I'd be more likely to adhere to the RCTM rest times if I could.

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#41 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
April 21, 2015, 12:19:05 am
100-180km per month. It wasn't in an attempt to improve my aerobic capacity or climb harder, I just like running and the local feels were bone most of last summer. Unfortunately back problems have prevented me doing any for a while, I'm sure I'd be more likely to adhere to the RCTM rest times if I could.
100-180km/wk is quite alot of running.  I wouldn't be too surprised if it has impacted your Aerocap, but I'd also suspect not running has helped allow your power and ancap to improve.  I's think it may be a worthwhile tradeoff.

 

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