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The Rock Climber's Training Manual (Read 22639 times)

SamD

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The Rock Climber's Training Manual
May 21, 2014, 08:58:45 pm
Just acquired copy of this from the US. From first glances it looks like the best and most comprehensive text i have seen in a very long time on training for climbing. Full report to follow.

http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/

abarro81

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Would be interested to know if you find anything new in there or if it's all the usual stuff..

SamD

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Will let you know. To be honest i doubt there will be a great deal that is new, however it does seem well formatted and pretty good content wise so far. Nice to have a text that contains lots of information in the same place. Also comes with a training diary which is a bonus.

Denbob99

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His blog has always been really good, interested to hear what the books like. Shame the international shipping doubles the cost

Sasquatch

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Had a bit of discussion with a friend about this yesterday and our consensus was this:

Eric Horst's book will get most people to climbing 5.11. 

Self Coached Climber will get most people climbing 5.12.

Rock CLimbers Training Manual will get most people climbing 5.13.

Each one has taken a small step forward in the overall view on training, but they're by no means "new" or breakthrough for those who are already really into training. 

mrjonathanr

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Had a bit of discussion with a friend about this yesterday and our consensus was this:

Eric Horst's book will get most people to climbing 5.11. 

Self Coached Climber will get most people climbing 5.12.

Rock CLimbers Training Manual will get most people climbing 5.13.


Sounds promising. When's the next one due?  :)

Sasquatch

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So that was the second part of the discussion we had, was how do you progress from there.  I think the topic gets too broad at that point.  I think you'd almost need a 4-5 part series that had an overall book, and then had specific books on each aspect so you could really get into the dirt. 

For example, have one whole book on strength training covering the details of each exercise, and how they overlap and combine to get the full body strength needed. (gimme kraft sounds a bit like this, but not tied together well)  One whole book on PE, one whole book on endurance.  1-2 books on technique, and the progression of technique from the marco level(dropknee) to the micro level (which nubbin you use for the drop knee to get the right body position). One on the body systems involved in different types of training so you understand when/why/how to push yourself apporpriately. And then one to tie the whole package together.....

And I definitely won't be the one writing it.

JimCon

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His blog has always been really good, interested to hear what the books like. Shame the international shipping doubles the cost

I got my copy through Amazon US for just under 23 quid, including shipping to the UK.

Just finished reading it through. I think that it's a great resource, well written and researched. I suspect that you could find most of the training science in other texts, but I think that the real value of this book is the way that it synthesizes all the info into a coherent (and adaptable) plan.

Ultimately though as Sasquatch suggests, the more experience you have of structured training, the less you're likely to gain from reading this...

I however am looking forward to climbing 5.13  ;)

Denbob99

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Well shit, that's not bad at all. Cheers

2 Tru

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#9 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
July 28, 2014, 01:43:11 pm
http://trainingbeta.com/media/mark-and-mike-anderson-interview/?portfolioID=3838

This was interesting especially the section on reducing training hours for 'j star' oh Americans.

Rocksteady

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#10 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 11:47:11 am
I've gone through the book now. Very interesting.

I was drawn to the ideas of the book re: training efficiency, working full-time but crushing hard at the weekend. I like the organisation of it, it's well-presented and collates a lot of useful training information in one place.

Their programme is straightforward and easy to understand. It logically makes sense. 3 seasons a year, working from a few weeks ARCing, few weeks strength, then power, then power endurance towards a peak.

What I'm not clear on is how this tallies with a more 'scientific' understanding of how our bodies adapt to training impulses. From reading stuff on here from Dave Binney's paper, and abarro's really useful summary of PE training, I thought that aerocap-type adaptations took a minimum of 8 weeks, ancap even longer, and aeropow and anpow about 6 weeks.

The 'Rock Prodigy' programme doesn't accord with these timelines - generally there's 4ish weeks aerobic base training, and 3-4 weeks for the other phases of strength, power, and PE.

Obviously their programme has worked really well for them and other people they've worked with. But I don't know exactly why if it's not in line with the way the body adapts to training. I wonder if what's happening is that the strength/power element is delivering the main benefits of recrutiment, and everything else is working, but sub-optimally?

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

abarro81

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#11 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 12:05:19 pm
The adaptation times are more about when you stagnate than when you start making gains.. Though ive never seen them well defined. I rarely manage to do full 6 month cycles so you have to shorten the phases. I think of their strength phase as being quite an cap esque, and don't forget their performance phase effectively carries on the work on the powers.

StillTryingForTheTop

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#12 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 02:09:37 pm
Can't quote as replying from my phone, but regarding the above 5.11/5.12/5.13 comments.
How does Dave Macleod's "9 out of 10 climbers" fit in to this scale?
Personally I struggle with training routines as they assume the desire to peak at a certain time some distance in the future, where as 99% of my time is week in week out pulling plastic indoor climbing so I need a much more micro-cycle / continued improvement process.
Sent from my RM-976_1142 using Tapatalk

petejh

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#13 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 02:54:30 pm
I think '9 out of 10' is almost the antithesis to the other books - if it sits anywhere on the 5.11/12/13 scale it'd be on a remote corner of the land tut-tutting at performance-oriented people logging their fingerboard progression while recommending they work on their footwork more.

I though it was a good read at the time but I've never gone back to it as a reference, whereas with Self-Coached Climber I have, although it's also pretty limited beyond a certain point (aren't all training books though??). I think the main takeaway from '9 out of 10' for me was 'work towards climbing as efficiently as possible and always think about getting the weight on your feet'. But there comes a point when that isn't enough and your fingers might not be strong enough or you don't have the fitness, and then it's helpful to just be given some specifics to hit whatever you've discovered through self-analysis to be your biggest weakness. Although I think '9 out of 10' would inevitably point out that, whatever you think your biggest weakness is, it's probably not that and is more likely to be too much focus on specifics and training strength over technique.

Handy to think about as a counterpoint to the more 'stick to the plan' type books.

StillTryingForTheTop

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#14 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 02:57:20 pm
Thanks, I will borrow it as a read once kind of book, rather than buy as a reference then :)

Paul B

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#15 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 02:58:56 pm
Nat is currently ploughing through 9 out of 10 climbers on my recommendation.

I agree that it's the antithesis of the other training manuals I've seen but what it does says is invaluable and there's a lot to be learnt from it (although due to its nature I can't see many people referring back to it often).

I certainly wish I'd read something like that, and not Horst in my early years of climbing/training.

From what you've said Gary, I reckon it'd be well worth a read!

StillTryingForTheTop

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#16 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 03:13:36 pm
Cheers, will definitely grab a copy from somewhere then :)

Wood FT

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#17 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 03:18:21 pm
Just to back up Paul's post, I don't train in any structured sense but in the past two years my climbing ability has increased in large due to reading '9 out of 10'. Changed my outlook that's for sure.


and changing shifts.

petejh

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#18 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 04:05:40 pm
... in the past two years my climbing ability has increased in large due to reading '9 out of 10'.

Is that a measurable performance increase which can be attributed to a specific stimulus? ;)

Stubbs

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#19 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 04:09:05 pm
I remember the main take home from 9/10 being 'practice falling off routes lots', which kind of left me a bit lost as a boulderer!

Wood FT

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#20 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 04:57:41 pm
... in the past two years my climbing ability has increased in large due to reading '9 out of 10'.

Is that a measurable performance increase which can be attributed to a specific stimulus? ;)

is it fuck

Sasquatch

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#21 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 05:28:06 pm
Since I was the one who made the 5.11/5.12/5.13 comment, I'd say there is a supplemental library on the mental and technical side of climbing that enhances the physical component of structured training. 

Starting from the assumption that folks who "train" are intending to maximize their potential (yes I know this is a big assumption), then all of these have a role in getting there.  While books like RCTM, and SCC mainly focus on the physical aspects.  Books like 9 out of 10, Rock Warriors Way, Better Bouldering(Dave Flanagan), Bouldering: Movement, Tactics, and Problem Solving (Peter Beal), The Boulder: A Philosophy for Bouldering (Francis Sanzaro) all focus more on the non-physical learning you need. Sorry many of them are on bouldering, but I think the problem solving component of bouldering is essential to hard roped climbing as well. 

Tommy

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#22 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 08:04:02 pm
Just to back up Paul's post...  in the past two years my climbing ability has increased in large due to training like a Horst.

 

Wood FT

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#23 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 08:13:43 pm
it's paying off Tom


petejh

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#24 Re: The Rock Climber's Training Manual
August 01, 2014, 08:35:28 pm
Clearly a boulderer.

 

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