[quejada]

Seriously considering the idea of going vegetarian... so I was wondering whether I should start thinking about protein supplements and the like. Not a big fan of that kind of stuff, but maybe a diet based on seitan, tofu, chickpeas and lentils, + diary products,  won't give me enough protein to keep training and climbing to my current standards?

my weekly regime is more or less: 1 or 2 times a week in the gym, 1 bouldering day at the weekend if the weather is decent, and 1-2 sessions at the finger board. and one 30 min run per week when I can.

any input or advice is more than welcome
thanks

[LB1782]

Caveat: I don't climb hard, and dream of reaching the sunlit uplands of punterdom.

I've been vegetarian for years, but was an omnivore when I 1st started climbing.
Overall, it doesn't seem to be difficult to get enough protein from veg sources, but you probably do have to think about it a bit more than a meat-eater.

For me, there is a convenience trade-off:
 1  I can do a fair amount of planning and make sure my macro-nutrient profile is OK.

 2  I can pay a protein shake company in the hope that they've done the balancing for me and so I've got some portable carbs+protein to get down me during the glycogen recovery window.

I've done both at different times.

Nick S/Quiddity of this and t'other parish is vegan and probably a lot more knowledgeable than me about this stuff.

edited 2014-05-19 to include profile links

[jwi]

I did not notice any difference at all to my climbing, my weight or to my life in general when I became vegetarian. Apart from a feeling of smug superiority I cannot say that I have noticed any difference at all to my life.

[Stubbs]

Apart from a feeling of smug superiority I cannot say that I have noticed any difference at all to my life.

This, and having an easier time choosing what to eat at restaurants!

I don't think you need supplements on a vegetarian diet, then again I don't think you do on an omnivorous diet, but I see plenty of people chugging down protein shakes!

[T_B]

I did not notice any difference at all to my climbing, my weight or to my life in general when I became vegetarian. Apart from a feeling of smug superiority I cannot say that I have noticed any difference at all to my life.

In contrast, I did a month of veggie and had a number of energy crashes and generally didn't feel myself on it (I cycle 50 miles per week to work, and climb 7 - 9 hours per week). In hindsight, maybe I just wasn't getting enough calories, rather than it being a protein thing? Either way, it wasn't for me.

[jwi]

I guess it was a problem with total energy intake. I will never have that problem. It was a sad day when I realised that I'll be hungry every day for the rest of my life....

[tomtom]

In my sporadic week to fortnight boughts of vegetarianism I find that:

1. I feel generally better (energy level wise)
2. I lose weight (a little and gradually)
3. I shit more often.
4. My hair has a luxurious sheen*

I was in the middle of one patch this week - until the lure of a full English at 10:30 after being up since 4am...

*a lie.

[sidewinder]

Lifelong veggie, I climb ~4/5 times a week, cycle 50 mins a day and do some other stuff.  I find shakes (mix of whey, oats and maltodextrin all from myprotein) useful to get something in to aid(perhaps) recovery/as a quick hit after evening wall/crag sessions useful, other than that I just try and listen to what I think my body wants.  I do eat quite a lot of eggs, milk and cheese, with more planning (or if one wanted to be vegan) I could probably eat less of these and get more from pulses/tofu etc.

I think the reason a lot of active people who try vegetarianism struggle is both the time for their body to adapt to the new diet and the fact that they have less knowledge of the range of meals to make, so perhaps blame the lack of meat, rather than their lack of knowledge of what things to make to get a range of balanced meals in.  As already said veggie food is to some extent less calorie dense (the healthy stuff anyway) so you may have to adjust to eating more (I eat a lot of food and am pretty light (70kgs at 6 foot)).

Short answer, protein shakes might be a good stop gap as you adjust to new diet, that way you can 'know' it isn't lack of protein affecting you and perhaps remove as you get more used to the lifestyle.  Remember if you ingest too much protein too quickly you just piss out the excess anyway, I think a lot of people forget this and at times place too much emphasis on the amount of protein that is 'needed'.

[slackline]

Similar experience to tomtom and jwi as I tend to eat vegetarian when I go away on climbing holidays as my mates are and its too much of a ballache to cook meat separately.

Based on a fortnight in Verdon, two fortnights in Dolomites and five weeks in Peru over the last few years I didn't notice any real problems in terms of energy levels, despite doing more exercise each day than I normally would do (multi-pitch routes in the Verdon/Dolomites several days in a row and high-altitude trekking and mountaineering in Peru with a smattering of sportclimbing at 4200m).

Only down side was the farts were more pungent.

[jwi]

I think the reason a lot of active people who try vegetarianism struggle is both the time for their body to adapt to the new diet and the fact that they have less knowledge of the range of meals to make, so perhaps blame the lack of meat, rather than their lack of knowledge of what things to make to get a range of balanced meals in.

Before going fully vegetarian I decided to eat strictly vegan one day a week, and lacto vegetarian one day a week, to learn to cook and plan for food in a new way.

[tomtom]

Based on a conversation with Prof Popp - I think one of the big advantages of going veg is that you have to cook more of your own meals - IE there are not the plethora of easy cook/ready meals/heat up in the oven things for vegetarians that there are for the omniverous populus. Therefore you tend to make better/healthier meals with less salt/sugar/fat (insert bad for you food item of the month) than in prepared or partially prepared things.

I like cooking - and enjoy having to think about what to prepare.

While I'm rambling - I think its often a good way to tell how good an omnivorous restaurant is by the quality of the veg food... if its good it shows (IMHO) that the chef has a good creative brain.... No more goats cheese tartlets please...

[LB1782]

+1 to both cooking from scratch and adapting gradually so you learn cook and plan.

Most veg convenience food (both take away and ready-meal) is truly awful.

I've ended up using many more and a much greater variety of herbs and spices. Finding a good cookbook or website to get you started on cooking differently isn't bad idea. I like HFW's Veg book (you might want scale down his copious to take his salt and fat quantities) and the Postpunk Kitchen and its offshoot recipe books. Have a look through online collections to see what you get on with.

[andy popp]

I'd second the HFW cookbook recommendation: a really appealing but practical everyday cookbook.

[webbo]

I went veggie 33 years ago for several reasons. I also hoped I would be less interested in food and get thinner, some hope.

[tomtom]

I went veggie 33 years ago for several reasons. I also hoped I would be less interested in food and get thinner, some hope.

Still it helped with the mood regulation right? RIGHT?

[webbo]

Fuck off.

[psychomansam]

I'm not veggie, but I may as well be. I eat a tin of sardines (oily fish) midweek and the gf often cooks something with meat in / buys me some meat to cook at the weekend. The rest of the time, I don't eat meat. 90% of my protein comes from milk. The rest is in the pumpkin seeds in my bread and whatever is in my muesli. When I'm doing a lot of exercise (currently recovering from something), I frequently get through 4 pints of milk a day.

Protein shakes are bullshit. I've seen two studies testing skimmed choc milk vs recovery drinks. Choc milk wins. Want more protein? Fortify your skimmed milk with a bit of dried milk powder*. You really don't need to buy 'specialist' protein powders. Perhaps they have some advantage if you're a tart of a bodybuilder and want to build pointless heavy muscles. Else, what's the fucking point of wasting your money? 36% protein is plenty!

*FWIW I did just this while wild-camping in the forest, Font, for a week last year and climbing/running every day. I'm fairly good at listening to my body. It's used to milk being my main source of protein, so if I'm a bit low on it, or after a workout, guess what I crave? And yes, at the end of a day in the forest, Muesli and banana with extra thick fortified skimmed milk tastes like manna from fucking heaven.

[Steve R]

Depends what you're doing at the gym (big muscle groups and that) but going by the rest, I'd say you don't need to bother with supplements.  I've been fully vegetarian this past year or so (not difficult for me as never been that into meat) and find no issue with recovery.  Physical job and climb/train 4 or 5 days per week on average.  I do try to get some milk in as soon as I've finished sessions and ,fortunately, I like milk, eggs, tofu, etc.  generally.  I think importance of protein amount after climbng is often over rated when other factors (eg. booze intake, amount and quality of sleep) are just as/more important.

[bigtuboflard]

Choc milk wins.

I use chocolate milk as my main recovery drink after training runs and it is spot on 

[webbo]

Funnily enough one of my reasons for going veggie was due to booze. On a trip to Verdon it was a case of eat meat and be sober or live on veg and wine, not much of a choice.Anyhow Tom it's helped with my anger management

[tomtom]

[abarro81]

Protein shake = 30p.
Pint of milk = 50p.
Chocolate milk = ~£1?

[abarro81]

You've changed Steve, You've changed. I remember when you used to eat museli with protein shake for dinner

[Stubbs]

Is whey a biproduct if the cheese industry? Wondering how it can work out so cheap.

Also I guess it's worth pointing out that price point is not the best way to decide what to put in your body!

[psychomansam]

Protein shake = 30p.
Pint of milk = 50p.
Chocolate milk = ~£1?

Fuck me, aren't you a PHD student?  4 pints of milk is £1 in tesco/asda, 95p in Aldi, thus my milk works out around 24.5p/pint. Choc powder from tesco = very little. If you use dried milk, it gets cheaper.

I trust nature... Tried a protein shake once and it gave me the shits.

Eggs are great at the weekend too