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Is deadhanging the most efficient way to increase finger strength? (Read 22176 times)

cha1n

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Perhaps putting your foot through a long sling that's attached to a load-cell or beefy set of luggage scales at head-height could work?

Would stop you having to look down at least!

a dense loner

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Load cells? Have I lost the plot completely?

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SEDur

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Thanks for the replies everyone, some interesting reading here.

I haven't really been able to gauge progress by re-attempting problems that were too hard for me due to no rock nearby but I'll try it in future. I've only been climbing for just over 4 years (I think), so the improvement curve has been quite good up to now which makes knowing why I've improved tricky (for example, I tried Le Carnage 2 years ago and found it hard but did it the other day and it felt easy - I guess I'm stronger but my movement, co-ordination, etc must have improved too). However now, I don't think there's much improvement to come from technique and other subtleties, it's mainly core and finger strength which hold me back imo.

Interesting regarding the hangs on the scales thing. I need an electronics project for uni, so was thinking of trying to fashion a load-cell sensor under a hold with a display which records max weight and presumably some other useful things (I have to get my lecturer to approve that it's hard enough for a final year project so will need some potentially unnecessary fancy features). Prior to this idea I was thinking that holding a sling via a load-cell which records max/min, to take weight off during hangs would work. I agree that staring down at a set if scales may be awkward and encourage strange positions in the neck during hangs. I'm guessing that having good posture during hangs is important?!

You would probably be better to mount an ergonomic board to the load cells, and attach those to a wall mounting plate. I would have thought a sling wouldn't be as comfortable or close to a grip, in terms of how you hold a hold and move off of it.

If you were really clever, you would use a bunch of constantly sampling load-cells and attach them to a larger board.
Stick a finger board at the top, and a series of campus rungs underneath.
Then use the sampling data to discern recruitment time, total force, measure training time etc. You could even have the module count reps, sets and rests when doing things like foot-on campusing, frenchies, deadhangs etc.

To make the project FMP material, I would expect data analysis/extrapolation and feedback would be a minimum requirement for something in this field. Time to don the arduino?

a dense loner

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DAVETHOMAS90

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a dense loner

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My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?

DAVETHOMAS90

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I think I've worked it out!

The 'arduino is the subatomic particle that makes things 'ard.

Otherwise known as the Wad particle.

SA Chris

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However now, I don't think there's much improvement to come from technique and other subtleties, it's mainly core and finger strength which hold me back imo.


I've been climbing on and off since 1989 and I think I'm still learning technique? Not saying it's the only thing to focus on, but just keep an open mind that there may still be a hell of a lot to learn.

Or are you from the Erik B and Rakim school?


tomtom

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Or are you from the Erik B and Rakim school?


Fish is my favourite dish...

lagerstarfish

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My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?

strain gauge

rosmat

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I think it depends on how you interpret the question:

a.) In absolute terms i.e. which (Bouldering vs Finger boarding) will result in the greatest increase of isometric finger strength?
Then I think that finger boarding is more effective than bouldering, providing you use the correct technique / protocol.

or

b.) Which will result in the greatest increase in climbing ability and applied finger strength within the context of bouldering (as opposed to simply isometric hangs)? Then I think that bouldering is more effective.

Just my opinion, but I think the vast majority of training time should be bouldering on steep boards (between 30 and 45 degrees). Combined with a limited amount of finger boarding.

Finger boarding should definitely be included in training but only in addition to bouldering / as a supplementary exercise.

SEDur

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My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?

http://www.arduino.cc/ ?

cha1n

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I'm sure there are still gains to come from technique but I think they'll be minor compared to those from strength increases. I'm not saying it's the case with yourself but I've met climbers who've been climbing 20 years and climb with terrible technique on anything off of a slab.

I focussed on technique a lot when I first started climbing, so would like to think that my technique is OK!

Slightly off topic but which Sheffield wall has the best training board? I'm relocating from Bristol in a month or so and am keen to get training. Too hot/wet to climb outside much in the summer anyway I'm guessing?

J_duds

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which Sheffield wall has the best training board?

There is no easy answer - do you want to train for bouldering (then use the board at works?, but also consider the wave at the foundry which isnt in a board) or are you training for routes (then consider circuits on the board at the foundry?)? 

If only the Foundry had a steep 45-50 degree board - how good would that be...

DAVETHOMAS90

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 >:(
My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?

http://www.arduino.cc/ ?

Thanks for that, though I still think Wad particle it's a great concept.

"Arduino is a single-board microcontroller, intended to make the application of interactive objects or environments more accessible...

Introduced in 2005, it was designed to give students an inexpensive and easy way to program interactive objects. It comes with a simple integrated development environment (IDE)..."

Isn't that just The Motherboard at The Works?

Seriously though, and back to the original topic, like all these things, the "answer" if there is one, lies in your own application and motivation. The point of deadhangs, is simply to isolate that part of the whole. This is a useful supplement to your other work. There probably isn't a right answer. Sometimes I do footless circuits on my FB; sometimes I try to recruit on the actual holds of the problem I'm trying.

Using a FB can be a great way to monitor progress, so load cells or whatever recording/monitoring system could be useful. Personally, I often try deadhangs at a given weight. E.g. adding weight to train/monitor progress at 80kg. I'm not light though anyway! I used to record my running in a similar way, but using heart rate as the gauge.

DAVETHOMAS90

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BTW,

totally unintended "cross" smiley in my post. Please feel free to add your own in any reply.

Also.. what about Ben Moon's new "school Room"? I don't know much about it, admission/membership etc, but I'm sure it'll be the best option for training on wood/boards.

Anyone else know much more about it?

cuboard

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Well that's gone quite then?
I've heard its a 1000 pound a year to join
You get to climb with a bunch of miserable old bastards that are better surfers now then climbers and that's being generous.....test yourselves on splintered 20 year old problems that we all did in the nineties and to top it all you get to gobble moon off...

Smiley face



tomtom

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To answer the OP it depends what finger strength you require.

Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.

While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem... Body position, footwork, core etc..


Stubbs

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Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.

While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...

Yes it's easier on the problem because you get to use your feet, which is why you can use bigger holds when fingerboarding and still get good results.  I assume your dalliance with your Beastmaker has not had fruitful results then TT?

abarro81

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holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...

That's true, but in and of itself is not necessarily an argument in favour of bouldering. Doing a moderately hard move halfway up a route is very different from doing an actually hard move off the floor, including the styles you're likely to climb the moves with, but it doesn't mean that route climbers shouldn't spend a large amount of their time bouldering.
I.e. (a) is different from (b) does not mean that (b) might not be the best way for someone to train for (a).

tomtom

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Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.

While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...

Yes it's easier on the problem because you get to use your feet, which is why you can use bigger holds when fingerboarding and still get good results.  I assume your dalliance with your Beastmaker has not had fruitful results then TT?

I'm being a bit glib above... But..

Not sure it's necessarily easier - it's different  - hanging something uses your body in a very different way than climbing it (unless you campus all :) )

I use the BM to try and keep in shape when I can't make it to a crag or wall.. I've got better at crimping small holds in the last two years by climbing/working more crimpy small hold problems.. Many the time last summer I came back from Harmers/Farleton with aching fingers (in a good way!)

But - I think the BM is very good at identifying & possibly working weaknesses. Eg from playing on the  BM I know my back two are shite.. And do try and work them on the BM. Though to be fair my under performing back two don't seem to hold me back on what I try...

I can see the value in warming up on one before trying crimpy fingery probs.. But for my own climbing now it's not so much finger strength that holds me back - more shoulders/arms/core. Stuff that doesn't really get a workout from the BM.

tomtom

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holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...

That's true, but in and of itself is not necessarily an argument in favour of bouldering. Doing a moderately hard move halfway up a route is very different from doing an actually hard move off the floor, including the styles you're likely to climb the moves with, but it doesn't mean that route climbers shouldn't spend a large amount of their time bouldering.
I.e. (a) is different from (b) does not mean that (b) might not be the best way for someone to train for (a).

Yes - i can see a stamina element in fingerboarding translating into routes.. Sorry my personal vista only extends as far as bouldering..

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To answer the OP it depends what finger strength you require.

Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.

While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem... Body position, footwork, core etc..
Quite right.  It will make you better at deadhanging, and if you actually have relatively weak fingers, then you shoudl see really good gains from the FBing. 

This is quite a common misunderstanding, and one reason I see a great amount of value in benchmarking yourself against others.  i.e. if you can one arm hang the bottom middle slot on the BM, and you are bouldering 7C, then finger strength is not your weakness and you needn't FB-it won't help you.  On the other hand if you can't hang the bottom outside edges two handed, but are bouldering 8A, then you should really do some FB work as you will likely see significant and quick gains. 

 

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