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Kick boards on home woodies - important? why? (Read 13184 times)

Ti_pin_man

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as per my post on the power club thread, I'm building a moon board in my garage.  I can squeeze in the board but only  by dropping the kickboard.  I'll still have room for a row for foot holds but not the 37cms and double rown on the design.  With sit starts and one row of foot holds I'm not sure I'll miss much?  Am I mis understanding? 

Oooh and the plan is to train my weakness, over hang strength, anybody have any good training plans for this?  Week by week plans?


Dexter

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I think a single row should be fine. As far as I can tell the kickboard is mainly there for making pulling off the floor less awkward.
Regarding training your weakness I can't much apart from my motto at the minute (stolen from some book can't remember what)
1. Find something hard (or set in your case)
2. Do it
3. Repeat it until it's easy
4. Back to step 1

Dave Flanagan

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I have only about 8.5feet of height to work with and I made my kickboard about 30cm high and I think that was far too much, if I was doing it again I would make it more like 15cm. All you need is one row of foot holds for the first move.

erm, sam

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Due to the constraints that existed when I built my board I have quite  big kick board, 30cm or so, enough for 2 rows of foot holds and one thing I like about it is that it creates a less steep bit. If you have your feet on the bottom row of foot holds the effective steepness (angle between feet and hands) is less than when both feet are on the board. It means you can use holds that you cannot hang when on the board proper but can hang when on the footboard. This is only an issue because my board is 50 degrees.

My current training protocol is to set problems that you can do one or two moves at a time on, but work out a problem of 8 or so moves. Over a few weeks you can work at longer links starting at different points and then you can link it and then you start doing reps of the whole problem. Work on 3 problems with different characteristics, eg slopey, crimply, sidepully and you get a decent work out. There is a natural phasing as you move from 1-3 moves at at time to 7-8 that works for me..

Monolith

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It's been a while since Uncle and I had a board session together but I recall a high percentage of his board problems start with feet up on the main board - i.e. a rockover to start. This can naturally make things harder at the start. I don't start like this often enough.

SA Chris

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I think it also means you don't need a row of jugs at the bottom to start from; they can be smaller on a kickboard. One row is better than none IMO, provided you don't have canoe feet (like me) so you are alway dabbing your heels on the ground as you move up.

dave

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I had a 6" kick board on mine, which is about right for a cellar board. These thing only exist though cos otherwise you can't get your feet into the bottom 9" of a 45degree board. However it takes careful setting to ensure you don't have the usual wordy type of problem where the first 2 moves are done with your foot planted on the kick board then the crux when youve got to actually suck then up onto the main board.

A lot of my best/hardest/most rock-like problems were done eliminating the kickboard. I'd be tempted not to bother with one again....

peewee

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I've also got a 6" Kickboard on mine (Dave's old one), we have one row of feet on it and it seems to work well, we recently constructed a 35 board next to it with no kickboard and found it really awkward pulling off the ground so about a week later we added a 100mm kickboard which made the start lest contorted.

Nibile

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I don't have a kickboard on my wall and don't miss it. Makes starts a bit harder so it's perfect. You start already on the steep angle.

andy popp

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My very standard type board (with kick board) goes into a flat roof of about three foot, and above the lip of the roof runs a small slightly leaning panel with a good continuous rail and some smaller edges. Almost all problems finish matched on the rail - it adds a lot to many of them and seems an excellent way of getting more climbing if height is limited.

tresor

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I have a Moonboard in the garage and had to skip most of the kickboard to make it fit. Have one row of footholds on 10cm of kickboard and this is fine as a kickboard BUT the starting holds is a bit low for me. Row 4 is about the same height as my navel and that is too low for me or at least was so I have moved all holds on row 4 up one notch to start at row 5.

Actually tried a Moonboard built to specs yesterday and with a proper kickboard the starts and the first moves were MUCH easier than on my board. But mine is at 30 degrees instead of 40 and has 17,5cm spacing vertically instead of 20cm and that made the rest of the climb easier on my board. More than I expected actually.

My recommendation is to get at least one row of footholds on a kickboard as you can't get your feet in to the low footholds if you don't have a kick board and the starting handholds can't be to low anyway.

//Tresor

Sasquatch

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Are you planning on using the preset moon holds/spacing/problems/etc.?  If so, do at least 1 row of foot holds, and make sure your board is to the right angle.

As tresor mentioned, the angle and hold spacing make a HUGE difference. The moon specs put the board at just a shade under 40 degrees, My wall is at 41 and change, and my friends is at 42 and change.  My board has an extra 1" per sheet of ply(no idea why), so my board is a shade long.  On any of the sloper holds, there is a significant difference between his and my board. Enough so that on some problems I can't do the problem on his and I can consistantly do it on mine. 

Also as mentioned, if you only do the single row of feet, some of the starts will be insanely hard. Just skip the opeing move, and start from there....  It's all training anyway.

FYI - The set problems are by and large extremely sandbagged until you get to about 7B, then some of them start to get more accurate for grades. 

Good Luck!  Feel free to Pm if you have any questions on the board.  I love mine.

honroid

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I made a wall without a kickboard as I was struggling for space and, as mentioned above, found that below a certain height the board is useless as you heels drag on the floor (about the length of one foot, funnily enough :slap: ). Last year we swapped the wall and the master bedroom, giving us more room for the wall (and less room for the bedroom) so I tweaked the wall a little. One thing I did was to add a kickboard.

+ves

- can use feet right the way (almost) to floor level, reducing dead space
- the kick board makes circuits more do-able
- easier to access storage potential behind the board

-ves
 
?


 

spam

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If this is a general question about kickboards, I have have had a 50 degree without and thought it was great.

  If it is about using the Moonboard holds and problems on a board without the kickboard, I think it has the potential to less fun.

How much height do you have?

 My first suggestion is I would move the holds all up a few inches to create a bit more kickboard height (if you have already drilled the t-nut holes, just cut of the top few inches of the board... try putting some of the bigger holds on first to see where to do it.  The Moonboard design does waste height at the top (room between finishing holds and ceiling).  A number of the problems end with big moves, so you don't want the holds right up to the ceiling, but I don't think all the extra space is necessary.
    My second suggestion is that if you are ~5 ft 8 or less I think the board would be more fun with all the hold separations scaled down a few percent, which would also provide a bit more height.

tresor

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    My second suggestion is that if you are ~5 ft 8 or less I think the board would be more fun with all the hold separations scaled down a few percent, which would also provide a bit more height.

Really agree with this one. Seems I'm 5 ft 8, usually measure in centimeters. Scaled my down to get some extra room, trying one with original spacing I couldn't keep my feet on to reach some holds on most problems. On the few problems i tried that.

//Tresor

Ti_pin_man

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Some very helpful replies ... muchos thanks. 

I guess in conclusion I will take your advice and put in a single row of footholds, the ply is now drilled and the T nuts due tomorrow for delivery so its too late to amend the spacing.  I'm 6 foot so it may be best to stick to the design spacing.  If I find it to tight then I can move the holds up a row and leave off the top row. 

Yep, its definitely just training, so as long as I'm getting the workouts then I wont loose sleep on doing it a little my own way.  :)

I am really looking forward to getting it completed and suspect I'll be doing more climbing training with it than I am currently, it gives me another arrow to my bow.

Interesting comment on the sandbagged grades..  Really?  Any steer on best hold set to buy to start with? 


Sasquatch

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I started with both sets a & b.  The on-line problems tend towards very dynamic with limited feet and require alot of power and body tension on generally decent holds. 

To give perspective on the sandbagging, I can almost anywhere in the US onsight most(90%) v6's outside, and have climbed v10 in a session throughout the US now.  There are 6C's and 7A's on the moonboard I can't do after 6-8 sessions on them.  That generally translates to v5 right? But I have also climbed up to 8A on the board as well, so some seem graded OK, but most of the lower grades are really sandbagged.  It seems like they get far more accurate at about 7B.  There's a "user grade" for the problems, so the grades should get fixed over time, but it needs to have people input what they think. 

trying one with original spacing I couldn't keep my feet on to reach some holds on most problems. On the few problems i tried that.

I'm 5'10" and I have that problem :)  I think it's the nature of the board/hold setup.   

Danny

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One more vote for no kick. Generally, you get some harder, more tensiony starts this way. Also, if you're tall, I find that kicks allow you to cheat a lot of power moves for a good distance up the board, whereas low handhold/crap foothold starts are especially nails without one.

Fadanoid

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As tresor mentioned, the angle and hold spacing make a HUGE difference. The moon specs put the board at just a shade under 40 degrees, My wall is at 41 and change, and my friends is at 42 and change.  My board has an extra 1" per sheet of ply(no idea why), so my board is a shade long.  On any of the sloper holds, there is a significant difference between his and my board. Enough so that on some problems I can't do the problem on his and I can consistantly do it on mine.

I am also currently building a moonboard. I was and probably still will follow the guide specs. I am grateful to hear about the specs bringing it out at under 40 degrees as that will save some head scratching when I set it out.

In regards to the sandbagging. Can you rely on the star ratings as an idea of agreement of the grade?

Sasquatch

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Sometimes, and there is a suggested grade in () for each problem as well, so the more people who input there personal grade opinion, the better they will get.  The star ratings are useful as well.  they show that at least other people have done it.

Fadanoid

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No worries, I'll put up a setup this weekend and see how it goes.

Ti_pin_man

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My Moon Board is now up and the holds arrived and are just about all in place.  I've had to forget the top row and move the holds down a row in the grid simply cos the space I have doesnt allow easy hold placement on the top line.  I've put on a small ledge of wood in place of a kickboard to at least offer a edge of foot holds at the start...

so my next question is training session durations/frequency on these.  Pimp my schedule.   ;D

How many times should I be using this and whats the training plan that people follow on these? 

My notion is to use it three times a week with rest days inbetween.  Usually for a couple of hours.  Of the three sessions I'd like to make the middle one an aero session with longer sets on the jugs I've ordered to put in the spaces between the moon holds.  Then on the other two sessions to just climb - not very regimented but not sure if theres anything specific to do? 

Advice gratefully received.


Sasquatch

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How hard are you bouldering atm? On lime style, not grit :)  Which moon hold set did you get? and what are your goals? 

Have you tried climbing on it yet? 

SA Chris

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And how used to steep fingery bouldering are you, and how regularly were you doing it? I'd be wary of being like a kid in a sweetie shop and going at it too hard and hurting yourself. It's there for you to get on any time now, so to maybe you start off you can do an aero session, and then work problems at (or just below) your limit the other two sessions until you get conditioned to it, stopping before you are totally thrashed. What I would (will!) do anyway, I'm sure someone will come along and flame the idea shortly. Barrows?

Ti_pin_man

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the reason I built the board is to train my steep climbing, simples.  I'm usually ok on verticals/slabs but once it begins to lean back I begin to struggle.  I also built it because my wife is due twins soon and this might be the only climbing I get. 

I like the idea of 'getting used to it' with a few aero sessions, thats a nice idea.  But then the vague plan is to use it twice more per week . . . if I want to improve steep fingery stuff, do I just do the moon routes?   I guess I am looking to work my weakness, that being steep strong stuff.

 

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