[Nibile]

I have finally found a small window to go and try my project route on the weekend of the 19th of April.
I have five weeks to get in the best possible shape for a 20 moves long roof route with an easier start of 8/9 moves and a difficulf finish.
At the moment power seems fine, I am doing well on my board's projects, and fingers should be ok despite a little injury that has kept me out for a couple of weeks.
PE didn't drop much but I'm stuck at moves 22/23/24 on my board's 30 moves circuit.
Haven't tried feet on campusing as of late.
Had a read at the energy systems thread but can't be sure about how to plan the training.

Suggestions?

[Paul B]

Had a read at the energy systems thread but can't be sure about how to plan the training.

So the energy systems stuff would suggest that at this point you'd basically have completed your base phase (of Aerocap and Ancap) and would now be moving into your peak phase (of Anpow + Aeropow) with a taper thrown on the end.

I'm not sure how relevant it'd be looking at it like that now as (to the best of my knowledge) you haven't done the base phase (and likely have done very little low intensity/high volume Aerocap)?

Barrows can possibly pass judgement on what he'd recommend doing with a spare 5 weeks. I haven't a clue.

[Nibile]

Exactly, I haven't done any low intensity/high volume Aerocap training.
I think I will need 2 minutes to redpoint the route.

[mindfull]

Hi Nibs,

I always heard strenght you keep for a longer time, while power endurance will disappear very fast. So if you're strong enough, I would focus on PE. But who am I? But still I would do PE 20-25 moves at the limit. Maybe 4-6 times a session.

[ghisino]

lino,

are you basically saying that you feel almost ready but you need to wait 5 weeks?

if that was the case for me, i would more or less keep the same kind of work i'd be doing lately but gradually switching to higher intensity, lower volume and longer rest times.

then i'd have a long taper (even as long as 2 weeks) keeping the maximum possible intensity and reducing the volume gradually to roughly 50% of what i normally consider "training".

During the taper phase i'd try to improvise some kind of mental training (may Olivier Guidi be with you):
visualisation of the route, but also building up a warm up routine that will work at the crag and feel familiar, and coupling the visualization sessions with some daydreaming about any possible scenario at the crag, good or bad...try to be realistic and really get in the mood
(friendly/unfriendly company, supportive/competitive, good/bad conditions, i'm under pressure/i'm not, it feels easy but i do stupid mistakes all the time/ it feels desperate/ it feels just right but i fall at the last move/ i just screwed up a foot sequence but i managed to hold on, etc...)
In this sense a bit of analysis of past successes and failures can also help - you may not be able to master every possible situation and nobody asks you to (you're not a comp climber from a soviet-like sports system!) but being honest you can see patterns and, for instance, "feel" when to push things in order to have a go and when to wait
(For instance: the worst possible case for me is interacting with well-known people -even good friends- that are very serious or competitive about sending the same project or a similarly graded one...so if it's just one or two of them i'll try to wait the moment when they're around the corner... On the opposite i'm positively motivated by some kinds of vague acquaintances and strangers, so i sort of seek their company...)


if you're scared about the last moves i'd try to tweak your circuit sessions as follows:
-make the first 25 moves a bit easier, so that you can always complete it once when fresh but need at least 5' rest to be 100% sure of completing a 2nd lap.
-make the last 5 moves really hard - they should really feel close to your 1-move limit after the first 25.
-add an even harder one to finish.
-make it a 2-week project
-if you can build several variations of this, keep climbing the successful ones during your taper...

tu push it further you can even simulate the initial really easy moves.
This may not be the best possible strategy in a fitness sense but at least it will make you familiar with the situation, in many ways...


ah,

i can't think of french routes fitting your description, but i'll be somewhere in SE france 12 to 28 of april, if you'll be close let me know!

[Jaspersharpe]

Do lots of pull ups. I've heard that works for the older gent, such as ourselves.

[Nibile]

Cheers guys.

Paul, thanks for pointing out my lack of Aerocap, will try to arrange something on my board for it. Won't be easy, 54 degrees with jibs for feet... I'll macgyver something!
Ghiso, bearing in mind that I still haven't tried the whole route and so I don't know whether I've got the power for the single moves, the idea is to keep doing what I've been doing for three weeks and then taper with volume. During the tapering phase, should I concentrate on PE, power or both?
Jasper, I like to think about myself as a 13 years old trapped in an ageing body, so I don't know if many pullups will do for me. I wonder if they'd do for Haston himself on this particular route.
Probably yes.

[Jaspersharpe]

Jasper, I like to think about myself as a 13 years old trapped in an ageing body

Likewise!

[ghisino]

During the tapering phase, should I concentrate on PE, power or both?

if it was me i'd do both.

on the last 5-7 days go down to as little session volume as possible.  The objective of these last days is to avoid the drawbacks of a prolonged rest, while keeping the benefits.
(for me it would be as low as 1 or 2 circuit laps on a pe session, 30-50 hand moves for power session. but i'm not a hard trainer, 8 circuit laps close to my limit are an ubersession...).
something i've read about tapering (in swimming or running i think) is that you recognize a good taper when despite going to your training facility almost as often as usual, you're frustrated that your sessions are too short...

i'd do the last pe session a bit spaced from my first day on the route (2-3 days rest?)

i have had good results on several occasions with a micro power session just the day before, as advocated by jollypower  (quite intense but not 100%, minimal volume - just warm up and get close to your max a few times, rests a lot between hard moves).
the ghetto implementation would be doing it on any unconventional support allowing a pull-up (one armers in the middle of a kids playground, at night?).
Something more sophisticated would be planning to arrive at the location some time in the afternoon...early enough to go put draws on the route, brush it, study it, and bolt-to-bolt it once...maybe overpowering intentionally some moves/positions (one armer on the crux hold?  ). But late enough that you won't be tempted to give it a real attempt...

[cowboyhat]

Suggestions?

You're ready, is the route?

Does it suffer seepage, is it dry?

[Nibile]

I won't know how "ready" I am, until I go there and try the moves. Once I know whether I can or can not do the moves, it will be back to the drawing table.
For sure I am as fit as I've ever been, PE wise. Never been an endurance monster, hence the choice of the route: short and powerful.
I felt good on the last PE session, but could not complete it. Could not rest enough between sets due to being late, but was generally satisfied. I was five days on. Will do more today. Forearms won't be happy, no no.
The route does suffer from seepage, but my man there told me it's in good nick now, so if the good conditions stay, I think that dampness won't be an excuse for failure.
Failure that in any case will not happen, because I'll go there and I'll give it every fucking muscular fiber I fucking have. And that is always a success for me.

[kelvin]

because I'll go there and I'll give it every fucking muscular fiber I fucking have. And that is always a success for me.

Top attitude that - get the head right and the body follows.

[a dense loner]

What utter bollocks, the body will only follow if it's capable of following. We all wanna be princes

[Oldmanmatt]

What utter bollocks, the body will only follow if it's capable of following. We all wanna be princes

Thought you were going for Princess, Dense?

😝

[a dense loner]

Damn I missed the last "s"! 

[Nibile]

Given that I asked for a lot of info here, the least I can do is to give an update.
So, as you may have read the route of Choice is Sanjski Par in Misja Pec, the original line, not the extension.
Four days prior to going there I fucked my left meniscus, so I was in less than ideal form. I tried it with Tadej, and that meant no warm up, one go to get the feel of the holds, one other go to try the moves and understand the sequence. Then it was time to leave.
I had four total goes in two days, as above (one kind of warm up go, and a slightly better one), while it was raining, probably 100% humidity.
This is to clarify the overall situation.

Untitled by Nibile, on Flickr

So, how did I get there, form wise?
Hard to tell. The knee injury made it all difficult to understand. I only know that I hit a monster form peak ten days or do before going. Then I tapered but was injured.

How did I do there?
The first go of both days was a nightmare. Flash pump, no idea of the sequence, holds, feet placements, etc.
The second go still very hard, but better on the second day. I managed to do good small links and clips.
Everything was made difficult by compulsory face-on climbing: no twisting, no drop-knees, no heel-hooks, no nothing.
I did the crux in isolation many times.
Found the start surprisingly hard, long moves. Could not pull with left leg, obviously.

So, it's very very hard. Phisically extreme. Could not properly test any of my PE capacities, because of lack of warm up. I got pumped very fast. Not good.

I got home and climbed a little bit on my board, knee is recovering, still don't know how serious the damage is. Yesterday I tried the test circuit and still got to holds n. 24/25. I did not lose anything, but am stuck there. The prospect of adding another 4/6 moves, is appalling.
The barrier of 1'40" of continuous climbing (a quick shakeout) seems unbreakable.
It should be enough to redpoint the route.

I have started a different excercise: instead of three goes on a problem (resting just the time to get back down, chalk up, set up), I'm doing the same problem but pausing 5" on every move. Given that it's 12 moves long, it adds up to around 1'15" with the moves themselves. It's very interesting.

I need to go back soon with a recovered knee...

So, thanks for previous help.
Suggestions?

[tomtom]

Sorry if this sounds like silly advice - but can you climb the route in less than 1'40 if thats your barrier?
I remember watching vids of Ben on some traverse or other and he flies along the first half... IE work the bottom part so you sprint up it?

(I sympathise - having only bouldered for the last 5 years or so the thought of any PE work makes me shudder!)

[Nibile]

Sorry, I wanted to write it but forgot to.
Yes, I think that with the moves dialed I can climb it in less than 1'40". There aren't many clips, you start with the first two passed, then there's an easy clip, then you skip one (the one that I have clipped in the pic) and from the good hold that I have in RH you can clip the other one. You need to twist to do that and I couldn't.
Then one (very hard clip) then the chain.

[Fultonius]

Ouch  - I wouldn't even want to go near that with a torn left meniscus!  There seems to be quite a lot of left foot drop-knees and "bicycling" on the hanging blobs (from the video I just watched). SOoo steep!  hope the knee heals well.

[Sasquatch]

Match up your performance days schedule to your training schedule.  i.e. if you know you aren't going to get a good warm-up, then train yourself to not need it.  If that doesn't work, then figure out a way to self belay so you have timeto work out the moves/route and really dial it in.  This can be done section to section if needed so that every single detail is perect.  Then when you get your two belays you're ready to send.....

[Nibile]

Cheers guys.
Sasq, I really want to go back there with full days to devote to trying the route! This time it was mainly/also to spend time with Tadej, so we had a tight schedule...

What do you guys think about the "new" excercise, compared to 3 goes on a problem with the shortest rest possible? The new one is probably around 1'20" of continuous climbing, the other one is roughly 3 goes of about 30" with two 10/15" rests in between.

[Sasquatch]

Figured it was something like that, but there are ways to improve even those days.   

How many hand moves, and how many foot moves is the route?  Try to emulate that as much as possible   If that means 5 secs on each move to simulate the time for foot sequencing, then that's great.  If not, then it may not be the best option....

[Nibile]

Cheers.

Ouch  - I wouldn't even want to go near that with a torn left meniscus!  There seems to be quite a lot of left foot drop-knees and "bicycling" on the hanging blobs (from the video I just watched). SOoo steep!  hope the knee heals well.

The second one of the hanging blobs, that was used for at least four hands' movements, sadly broke completely. So now the sequence is very different from before and both the original route and the extension obviously got significantly harder. There's less drop-knee-ing though.