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Pimp my Training 2 - Endurance for a Boulderer (Read 7334 times)

Sasquatch

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I've just committed to a 10 day trip to the Red River Gorge in early March, and now have 6 weeks to get fit for long enduro routes.  I've been training for bouldering all winter, and need Help!

I feel like I've got a decent handle on overall training, so here's my current plan.  My question is what am I missing?  Will this work, or just burn me out. 

Goal - OS 7C+/8a 
Currently OS 7c/+ at local wall.  More power based style than endurance.
Currently climbing 4-6 times a week, 1-3 aerocap, 3 Str/Pwr

The Plan - General Week:
M-Active Recovery/Aerocap L1 - 2 x 20min, 5min between
T-Max Hangs, PE - 6 reps of 4 x v3-v5 including downclimb on 40degree home wall
W-Aerocap L2 - 4-6 x 10min, 2min rest
Th- 6 x 10min 4x4 (a 4x4 where you stay on the wall for 2min between each problem), Aerocap L1 2 x 20min, 5min between
F- Rest
S- Max Hangs, PE - Foot on campusing - aiming for 6 x 2min sets
S- Aerocap L2 - 4-6 x 10min, 2min rest

Rest day and such may tweak a little bit based on home life and work, but overall the weeks should stay similar.... 

What say the UKB enduro monsters?

ghisino

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how are the clips in RRG?

if they're bad maybe it is worth hanging a draw on your home wall.

one of the few french selling training plans has a strong fetish for really long hangs (1 min on a decent hold, to exhaustion).
No scientific way to say if it's really worth it, if you want i can translate some details from his website and an email conversation.

Sasquatch

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I've never been, but as far as I know the clips are generally on decent holds.  Heck, I think almost everything is on decent holds, just steep and pumpy :)

That'd be great.  Any increase in knowledge is generally good.

Oh yeah, for training facilities, I have a moonboard(40degree 8'x12') with an added 2 foot vertical headwall, along with a 4'(w)x10'(h)vert wall, campus bard, and fingerboard at home, plus access to a local wall with 30' height and a 45' lead wall.  Due to routesetting limitations, local wall only sets up to about 7b+.  Maybe one 7c/+ set about every 2 months.

jwi

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If you onsight 7c/+ on an indoor wall you will surely onsight 8a in RRG. IMO

Too late for base endurance perhaps, but how good are you on shaking out on jugs? Could well be the limiting factor.


Schnell

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I'm well below your grade (mid 7's) but I had a rushed endurance phase just before Christmas which I feel didn't work terribly well so might be worth something as an anti-example.

I didn't do any base aerocap because I planned the trip with fairly short notice, around eight weeks before and the advice seemed to be focus on PE at this stage. I started mid-week sessions of 4x4s on a 45 deg board with about 5 mins rest between sets and foot-on campussing of around 90secs, and weekend routes at the wall, which is 16m, focused on steep pumpy climbing, but not lapping routes. I felt like my PE improved on vertical and slightly overhanging terrain, but I didn't get any better at jug hauling or recovering on holds. That's definitely to do with a lack of steep climbing technique, but also I think I should have been doing more aerocap by lapping easy routes and long deadhangs for recovery on big holds. My 1.5-2 min PE stuff didn't correspond to 5-10 mins on long pitches. In that respect you seem to be covered as you've loads of aerocap in that programme.

How long are the routes in RRG?

Sasquatch

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If you onsight 7c/+ on an indoor wall you will surely onsight 8a in RRG. IMO

Too late for base endurance perhaps, but how good are you on shaking out on jugs? Could well be the limiting factor.
Pretty good as long as there are feet :)  I'm best at climbing on walls in the 15-25 degree overhang range. 

How long are the routes in RRG?
50-130ft.  Most of the ones I'm looking at are in the 60-80ft range though. 

ghisino

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That'd be great.  Any increase in knowledge is generally good.


ok. So the concept this guy is crazy about is is to hang as long as you can on an edge, for quite a long time. the size and/or additional load should be chosen so that you fall after about 60 seconds on your 1st rep.

A series is made of 3 repeats to failure, with 3 min rests in between. Complete rest between series.


2 sessions per week, the cycling works in a 3-2-1 fashion: 3 series 1st week, 2 series 2nd week, 1 series 3rd week.
Not much additional pumpy training is advised during this cycle.

At the end of this cycle 2 weeks of bouldering, strenght and dynamic work are advised.

2nd 3 week cycle: similar, but you only do one series per session and replace the remainining hangs with routes or circuits at your limit.
(for instance: week 1. 1 series of 3 hangs followed by 2 series of 3 routes/circuits)

then 6 weeks (of just climbing i suppose) and you should peak?

Sasquatch

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Bizarre....

I suppose he's looking at the hangs in a similar way to what I think about foot on campusing.  Because there's no complex movement involved, you can basically go to 100% finger muscle failure. 

Sasquatch

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Any other thoughts on the training schedule I put up?  Am I missing something?

abarro81

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My main thought is that that's a lot of aerocap for the final phase leading up to a trip, when traditionally volume would ramp down. Have you been doing that kind of volume of it up to now and if so how long for? Either way actually, I'd have thought that if you have been then you should be able to reduce it, and if you haven't been it's liable to burn you out. I guess the reason I can think of to have it that high would be if you need to suppress a high an cap, as I think hard aerocap suppresses an cap? Otherwise I wonder if you'd get more quality and volume into your PE work by reducing some of the aero cap.

Personally I would split the weekend into something like
S - max boulder
S - PE, aerocap
not sure why you have the 2 high intensity sessions both on the Sat in your current plan?

You got any particular routes in mind? If you're looking for 13bs that are a bit less stam orientated, Elephant man at darkside is over by about half height and straight outta campton at the same crag has a sit down rest half way up. The legend is supposed to be bouldery but I didn't go to that crag. Dracula (purgatory) isn't that long either.

Sasquatch

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Barrows - Thanks for the responce - you're one I was hoping for a bit of input from :)
My main thought is that that's a lot of aerocap for the final phase leading up to a trip, when traditionally volume would ramp down. Have you been doing that kind of volume of it up to now and if so how long for?
Yes and no.  I generally do 2-3 days a week of high intensity strength/power both FB and bouldering and 1-3 days(depending on time/motivation) of easy active recovery climbing which consists of genrally about 30-40 minutes of on the wall time with no pump and reasonable continuous movement.  I haven't been doing the PE work, so I'm basically trying to swap out most of the power/str for PE. Does that seems like a good idea?  I really don't know on the endurance side of things.   

Either way actually, I'd have thought that if you have been then you should be able to reduce it, and if you haven't been it's liable to burn you out.
My intent was to start reducing it about 2 weeks prior to the trip.
 
I guess the reason I can think of to have it that high would be if you need to suppress a high an cap, as I think hard aerocap suppresses an cap? Otherwise I wonder if you'd get more quality and volume into your PE work by reducing some of the aero cap.
This is where I'm at a bit of a loss.  I feel like the aerocap acts as a recovery aid enabling me to do more PE throughout the week.  I have a generally high overall cardio fitness and I think my body recovers generally well from low impact work due to this. Having tried out some of the Aerocap L2 level stuff this week, I think you may be right.  It feels just hard enough to make the PE a bit less quality.  I may swap the L2 out for just really easy climbing to stay as more of an active recovery session.  One thing I like about the total volume and easy climbing is getting the brain wired into continuous movement.  As a mostly boulderer, I find my mind will focus really tightly well, but then shutdown.  On longer routes, it needs to stay engaged the whole time and this has seemed to help in the past. 

Personally I would split the weekend into something like
S - max boulder
S - PE, aerocap
not sure why you have the 2 high intensity sessions both on the Sat in your current plan?
That makes a lot of sense.  Not really sure why I did either.

You got any particular routes in mind? If you're looking for 13bs that are a bit less stam orientated, Elephant man at darkside is over by about half height and straight outta campton at the same crag has a sit down rest half way up. The legend is supposed to be bouldery but I didn't go to that crag. Dracula (purgatory) isn't that long either.

The Legend is one I was thinking about.  Dracula looks pretty awesome and gets rave reviews, but while its shorter, I hear its also really sustained?  Might be tough for me that way...  I hadn't heard about Compton or Elephant man, but I'll definitely look into those as those both sound like decent options.  I was also toying with giving God's Own Stone a play - very bouldery. 

My partner is going to be mainly in the low 5.12 range, so I'm looking for areas with both good 5.12's and good low 13's.


abarro81

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Definitely ditch all the aero cap the 2 weeks before the trip for tapering IMO. It's hard to know what to recommend to be honest. Ideally you'd have done a big volume of the L2/L3 stuff leading up to now, so you'd be able to focus all efforts on maximising PE and strength and you could ditch most of the base stuff, but if you haven't, and especially as your background seems to mainly be in bouldering, it's harder to know what to do. (Particularly because I'm not a coach, so I'm used to planning things for me but not people with a totally different background, even the fact that you find it easy to get the mindset/focus right on short things but hard on long is the opposite of me!)

Maybe try your current plan for 3 weeks, then phase the aerocap down in week 4 and ditch it totally for 5 and 6? Part of this stuff is also just learning how you in particular adapt to these things.


Dracula is a bit pumpy but more PE than stam, unlike, say, the stuff in the madness cave. Maybe V5 to a V3/4, then a jug to shake on, then another V4/5?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 10:42:54 pm by abarro81 »

Sasquatch

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Update on how it's going:  Three weeks in and massive endurance gains (I think).  My two measuring sticks are a home wall circuit and a 13a route at the local wall. Three weeks ago, I could barely finish the homewall circuit(50ish moves and about 2.5min). Yesterday did it twice, and probably could have kept going.  The 13a on the local wall was a barely finish, and Saturday did in nearly 3 times back 2 back (fell off the very last move on the third repeat). Big difference now is that when I get a decent hold I can shake out and recover quite well.
I dropped the overall volume while keeping the intensity for the last 4 days (I could tell my body was exhausted and needed a break).  So I'll kick it back in gear this week for another 2 weeks of hard work before tapering down for 10 days. 

Lessons learned:
1.) There's a massive difference between how my body recovers from different levels of intensity and volume.  After two stacked days of PE and heavy aerocap work, I took a rest day and tried to do a regular FB/PE workout.  It was shit.  I was nowhere near recovered.
2.) The EASY active recovery AeroCap (no pump at all) sessions tell me both how well I'm recovering and also help me recover. 
3.) Setting up a way to test my improvement that was not one of the training workouts was REALLY helpful in seeing and measuring gains.  I hadn't done the circuit on the home wall in almost 3 weeks and was absolutely shocked at the change.  Now I have to come up with a new one.


groovedog

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Thanks for your reply.

I was reading your original post with interest as I have a planned sport trip at Easter.

Great to see you are making gains. Have you just been doing what you planned to do in your first post?

Sasquatch

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Not quite, but reasonably close.
My last three weeks from the Power Club Pages:

M - 1hr conditioning class with Wife, then 45minutes aerocap.
T - FB/Max Hangs, Boulder home wall 20 problems up to 7C, 4x4 set on home wall.
W - Aerocap L3 40minutes wall time. 4 mi run
Th- Yoga, Acctive Recovery Aerocap(L1) 45minutes
F - FB/Max hangs - new PB +76lbs on #10BM2k small crimp.  Then foot on Campusing PE set 5x2:00min. Pullup Pyramid- up to 8.
S - Climbed on rope at wall - Sets of 3 routes back to back: 6c 6b+ 6c, 7b 6c 7b+, 7bx3, 7c+ 7b 7b+, 7b+ 6b+ 7b, 6cx3. Hard day....
S - Skiied 90 minutes, Bouldered 2 problems outside in AK in January   FB/PE in evening.  Did OK, considered workload over the last week.

M - 30 Min Stretching and light BW exercises(squats, lunges, pressups, etc.)
T - Boulder at Gym - Quite a lot up to 7C, then 4x4 at 7A/+.  Pullup Pyramid(72 total)
W - Aerocap 45min
Th - Max Hangs - Matched PB, Foot On Campusing 5 x 2:00min. Pullup Pyramid (81 total)
F - Aerocap 45min
S - Routes - 6x3 back to back. 2 warm up sets, then 3x.12b, 3x.12d/13a, 3x.12c, 3x12b.
S - Rest. 2mi easy run in PM.

M - Max Hangs - New PB, PE 5x5min 4x4@v5(do a problem, then recover on good hold for 30-45seconds, problem, recover, problem, recover, then at 5min do last problem) . Pullup Pyramid (100 total)
T - Aerocap 45min
W - Max Hangs - Another new PB, Foot On Campusing 5 x 2:00min-wicked hard set.  Absolutely beasted myself. Pullup Pyramid (110 total)
Th - Yoga at Lunch, then Aerocap 45min
F - Boulder at Lunch OS up to 7B and worked 8A-did all moves, but couldn't link in last move from start. Then Max Hangs in evening-terrible, so worked from last five days.....
S - Routes - 6x3 back to back. 2 warm up sets, then 13b/c(OS attempt W/one hang) followed immediately by 2x.12OS, 3x.12b, 3x.12c, 3x12b.
S - Rest

As a reference, I added the pullups as I noticed when doing the max hangs and foot on campusing, my arms/lats were not getting the same level of workout, so I felt I could add that on. It might not be the best solution, but so far it's feeling pretty good.  Plus, my pull/lock off strength is a relative weakness, particularly my Str endurance in that area. 

The remaining 2.5 weeks to trip is:
M- Max Boulder, Foot On campus
T - Active recovery Aerocap-45min
W-Max Hangs, 4x4's, PU pyramid
Th-Yoga, Active Recovery Aerocap-35min
F-Max Hangs, 5min 4x4, PU pyramid
S- Routes at wall, 6 sets of 3 back to back
S-REST

M-Max Hangs, FOC, PU pyramid
T-Active Recovery Aerocap-20min
W-Max Hangs, PE-5min 4x4, PU pyramid
Th-Yoga, Active Recovery Aerocap-20min
F- 4x4
S-Routes at wall, 6 sets of 3 back to back
S-REST

M-Max Hangs, FOC - Both short, but still high intensity
T-REST
W-Max Hangs, 2x4 - Both short, but still high intensity
Th- Rest - Fly Out
F -Travel
S- First Climbing day

Sasquatch

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A side note as you were looking at trip trip.  Going into this I had been working out 6 days a week for the last 2 months.  3-4 climbing days as well as other stuff.  The big shift was going from general workouts(body conditioning stuff) to climbing workouts, and shifting from Power to PE focus.  My overall effort and training time in a given week didn't change dramatically. 

jakk

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Hey, I was wondering how it all turned out? I have a trip to Kalymnos in 6 weeks or so but have just come back from a bouldering trip so haven't been doing any endurance whatsoever. Was there anything you would have done more or less of or something else you found? Thanks!

Sasquatch

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Mixed overall trip, however the issues were strategic and conditions rather than fitness.

#1 Issue was the weather.  A cold front came in and dumped a foot of snow the second day I was there so my partner and I bailed south to Chattanooga for 3 days and bouldered.  Two big bouldering days and two big driving days weren't planned so that really changed things. 

#2 Planning where to go with my partner and what routes to get on.  For example, on the first day we warmed up on a 10c, 11a, and 11b, then I OS'd a 12b. My partner wanted to lead it so we pulled the rope.  It turned out he couldn't get through the crux at all and couldn't dog it, so I had to do it again.  Same thing on another 12c/d. Then I went to OS my last route of the day and got 100 feet in and was just way too worked.  This was a theme throughout that was difficult to manage. I ended up with loads of mileage, but not always on what I hoped :)

#3 Overall managed my fatigue through the trip.  Ended up- climbing 4 days on 1 day off, then 4 days on again.  Not ideal for pushing a barrier, but I did do loads of volume which was cool, plus I was able to climb at two of the major boulderign destinations in the US southeast. 

In terms of changing the training, I think I would add in some hard core/ab work between the foot on campusing reps.  I found my body tension sagging after 50-75 feet of HARD climbing, but I could manage the forearm pump.  For the red, I also would actually do more pullups next time.  I constantly found myself pulling up and locking off to get into an oddly shaped pocket, which was good, but difficult to get into. 

jakk

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Sounds like a really cool if kinda random trip. Thanks a lot, the core was something I hadn't thought about so I'll throw that in there for sure

Sasquatch

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No problem.  For some reason core endurance nevwer occured to me as something which would matter so much, but in hindsight seems quite obvious. 

 

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