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Critique my diet - AKA help a fatty lose weight... (Read 70392 times)

slackline

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Wife was avidly watching Food Unwrapped - Diet Special last night.

No real revelations in the bits I caught whilst in the room.

The marketing guy should shoot himself  :wank:

Pebblespanker

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The total Yogurt has 4g per 100g of sugar so I guess its not too bad.

Is that the Total Zero %?? Expensive but very nice, low calorie and high in dairy protein too - presumably this would fit the bill for breakfast protein for helping preventing the 'emptiness' feeling returning? I ask as I have just been on the bathroom scales post-Xmas and it appears some dieting is in order as I couldn't see the scales for belly...  :'(

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Good topic and useful information. I was going to start one myself asking about general dietary principles, and I like that a lot of the replies have made sense in that way rather than tedious and inapplicable specifics.

I probably have some more questions later, but for now:

Is Chris's "carbs before, protein after" suggestion wrt exercise/training correct? Further, what sort of timescale is best for before/after training food?

What are the best times for breakfast / dinner? I generally find it hard to eat in the mornings, sometimes eat late at night but try to avoid it.


kelvin

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Is Chris's "carbs before, protein after" suggestion wrt exercise/training correct? Further, what sort of timescale is best for before/after training food?



When I was training for a 70 mile ultra 18 months ago, my post training 'schedule' was eat/drink protein within 30 min and get a decent meal with carbs down me within the hour. The protein being needed whilst the body was raging for materials to repair muscle etc and the meal to replace energy stores. I've always struggled with injury but having protein after exercise has helped change that scenario massively for me.

Carbs before is often said - I find I can train happily whilst empty but only at a low level of intensity. High intensity and I need carbs in me.

Fadanoid

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Is that the Total Zero %?? Expensive but very nice, low calorie and high in dairy protein too - presumably this would fit the bill for breakfast protein for helping preventing the 'emptiness' feeling returning? I ask as I have just been on the bathroom scales post-Xmas and it appears some dieting is in order as I couldn't see the scales for belly...  :'(

Yes its total zero 0% Greek yoghurt. I tend to have mine at 8am with a respectable handful of muesli. I don't start feeling hungry till 12-12:30.

Now I've started back climbing I have started trying to structure my diet around climbing and active rest days. I try to have things like sushi/ quinoa salads and fruit at lunch, then in the evening I have a fish/chicken meal with veg, and a small portion of rice/pasta/sweet potato and squash mash

I don't know if anyone else has tried forgoing carbs with an evening meal? Its hard as I start craving more food and start eating loads more.

Tom de Gay

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Skimmed through the thread but haven't seen any specific mention of Glycemic Index (though principles are referred to, ie porridge better than bananas).

As I understand it refined carbs, such as white bread or pasta are as bad as sugary food, since they're absorbed so quickly they cause a spike in blood sugar, and you feel ravenous again sooner. They have a high 'glycemic index' (GI).

Going back to the original post, if you could sneak some wholemeal pasta into your spag bol, that'd keep you going longer.

I understand that the one time you do need high GI carbs are in the hour after training, when your uptake rate is greater. This allows you to recover faster and train again sooner.

(I should add that I'm a punter with no professional knowledge in this area)

The myfitnesspal app is a good suggestion. Gave this a whirl back when I was syked and went from 66 to 63kg over 3 months, with consequent increase in performance on certain types climb.

slackline

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Surely all you need is rice & fish-cakes :clown:


« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 04:43:40 pm by slackline »

rich d

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fried

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I don't know if anyone else has tried forgoing carbs with an evening meal? Its hard as I start craving more food and start eating loads more.

I gave up carbohydrates for 2 days once when the missus was on some fad diet or other. I had meat and salad for lunch and evening meals both days. I swear it was worse than giving up smoking. My body absolutely craved something. The third day I just had to eat a kebab, I instantly felt better.

Fultonius

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Small bowl of muesli with yoghurt (not low fat)

Why not low fat yoghurt?

Its what I try and have with muesli most days.

Because it's full of shit!  Glucose-fructose syrup, sweeteners etc. etc. I use a standard tub of yoghurt in my cereal and it has a whopping 4 grams of fat...

Sasquatch

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Small bowl of muesli with yoghurt (not low fat)

Why not low fat yoghurt?

Its what I try and have with muesli most days.
Been a while since I've looked at it, but I recall some studies showing some fat goes along way towards feelings of saity.  From a health perspective, fats shouldn't really be something to be worried about as long as they are the more naturally occuring types.   In other words certain foods are naturally fatty - fish, avacado's, milk, yoghurt, etc.  Other are not - domestically produced meats, fried foods, etc.  Avoid the latter. The former are actually quite good for you in reasonable amounts.

I find my preference when it comes to yoghurt is real full fat greek yoghurt with a touch of honey (added by me) along with blueberries and an unsweetened muesli.  Will keep me fuller than a 3 egg omelet and toast. 

Fultonius

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Small bowl of muesli with yoghurt (not low fat)

Why not low fat yoghurt?

Its what I try and have with muesli most days.

Because it's full of shit!  Glucose-fructose syrup, sweeteners etc. etc. I use a standard tub of yoghurt in my cereal and it has a whopping 4 grams of fat...

Sorry, just read the remainder of the thread and realised you're on the better 0% yoghurt. Some of them are terrible!

SA Chris

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From a health perspective, fats shouldn't really be something to be worried about as long as they are the more naturally occuring types.   In other words certain foods are naturally fatty - fish, avacado's, milk, yoghurt, etc.  Other are not - domestically produced meats, fried foods, etc.  Avoid the latter. The former are actually quite good for you in reasonable amounts.

Aren't these unsaturated (healthy) and saturated (unhealthy) fats? Or is that something else?

Sasquatch

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I don't recall what types of fats, just that the naturally occuring were reasonable in their natural doses.  I.e. eating a dozen avacados might be a bit much, but 1 was fine.

petejh

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Saturated, polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats are good for you in a 30/30/40 (fat-protein-carb) diet of natural, unprocessed food. Ideally you don't want too much of any one fat type. Lots of research suggests the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids (found in poly and mono unsaturated fats) is too high in most western diets and may exacerbate inflammatory issues.

Avoid trans fat (aka hydrogenated vegetable oil) like the plague. An evil creation which is seriously damaging to you. Found in processed meals, baked goods, biscuits etc. Banned in some US states and Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Switzerland. But not the UK, although the permitted levels are low. 0.1g is still too much.

I eat loads of fat - my breakfast fave is pancakes made with eggs, banana and almond butter, fried in butter. Lots of oily fish, avocados. lots of olive oil, nuts, butter. I try to stick to lean meat - venison and game rather than processed red meat.  Basically a slack paleo diet. Too much sugar is the biggest 'bad thing' for most active people.

Nibile

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Some simple stuff:

- If it wasn't food 100 years ago don't eat it.
- If it didn't have a face or grow in the ground don't eat it.
- Don't buy anything frozen in a box or a bag
- Get a third of your calories from fat, protein and carbs respectively.
- Drink a lot less or not at all.
- Reduce your portion sizes and don't eat until full
- lift something heavy a couple of times a week as well as the aerobic stuff

It'll drop off....
I second this, especially regarding the lifting something heavy.
Big compound excercises (squat, deadlift, snatch pulls, military press) induce a very high response from the organism in terms of testosterone production, muscle mass, etc. Putting on lean muscle will raise your metabolism (muscles burn calories, fat doesn't) and will make your weight more stable after the "diet". Dropping the calories intake too much, on the other hand, lowers the metabolism, burns down muscles and packs fat. You'll lose weight but you'll be weak, look weak and feel weak. Moreover, every calorie you'll get, later, will be stored into fat more easily.
Also, trying do consume most of your carbs in the "peri-workout time" is another good idea. Fuel the session before, restore muscle glycogen after.
I highly advice a good amount of lean proteins (white meat, fish, etc. as usual) and also some supplements could be of use, like aminoacids, to avoid the risk of losing lean muscle due to the diet.
I am no expert, but I found this works.
Lots of it can be found on http://www.t-nation.com/, that, despite being a meatheads' site, has loads of good info about dieting and training.
I hope this helps, if I've written something incorrect please someone point it out because it's helpful.

Luke Owens

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I think Luke's diet is too high in protein: quickly jotting things down suggests it has nearly as much protein as carbohydrates and that's just going to fuck up your liver unnecessarily on it's way to being sugar.

I've never read anything about taking on too much protein being a problem?

I've been eating the same way for the last 4 years and I haven't had any problems, I'm lean and happy with the results I've had.

Can anyone elaborate on this? I'm intrigued...

Cheers

Paul B

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I've read about this in the past (sorry don't have time to hunt for links now), pretty sure it was all debunked and is thus nothing to worry about. However, a friend was consuming large (too much) amounts of protein and we were fairly certain that he was just p*ssing it away (quite literally). That's worth thinking about.

Luke Owens

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I've read about this in the past (sorry don't have time to hunt for links now), pretty sure it was all debunked and is thus nothing to worry about. However, a friend was consuming large (too much) amounts of protein and we were fairly certain that he was just p*ssing it away (quite literally). That's worth thinking about.

Cheers Paul, yeah, I was of the opinion taking to much would just be pointless rather than harmful. Something to think about though.

To everyone: In thinking I take on too much protein, is this in relation to a protein/carbs ratio or just in general?

Lots of it can be found on http://www.t-nation.com/, that, despite being a meatheads' site, has loads of good info about dieting and training.
I hope this helps, if I've written something incorrect please someone point it out because it's helpful.

+1 on big compound exercises. T-Nation is a great website, i've learn't a lot from it.

Lund

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I think Luke's diet is too high in protein: quickly jotting things down suggests it has nearly as much protein as carbohydrates and that's just going to fuck up your liver unnecessarily on it's way to being sugar.

I've never read anything about taking on too much protein being a problem?

I've been eating the same way for the last 4 years and I haven't had any problems, I'm lean and happy with the results I've had.

Can anyone elaborate on this? I'm intrigued...

Cheers

I was being flippant about the damage.  As I understand it, the science about protein consumption is this though:

* Proteins are digested through gastrin etc., and end up in the blood as part of the amino acid pool.

http://pharmaxchange.info/press/2013/07/digestion-of-dietary-proteins-in-the-gastro-intestinal-tract-gi-tract/

* They then arrive in the liver, where they are metabolised.  Essentially the liver changes some amino acids into other ones (turning "essential" amino acids (those you need to eat) into non-essential ones (those the liver can make) by transamination), makes albumin, and...

* those proteins you don't need get broken into two bits: ammonia (nitrates) [these are pissed out] and sugars + lipids for the non-nitrate bits

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/liver/metabolic.html

* Within your active cells, to make energy, the amino acids are catabolised in small amounts with sugar and water and fat to make ATP as part of the ATP-CP cycle yada yada.

http://antranik.org/the-catabolism-of-fats-and-proteins-for-energy/

Does excess protein consumption bother your liver?  Dunno.  Why does excess alcohol consumption damage the liver?  Dunno that either - nobody does.  I suspect you'd have to chronically eat lots of protein anyway, even if it were possible, so hence it was more a pseudo-ironic musing than anything else.

I must point out though that as far as I know, the idea that excess protein means you just piss it out is a fallacy.  (Unlike vitamin C.)  Only the waste is pissed out - the body will recover what it can in the form of lipids and sugars and yada and store these around your wasteline but with a bit more liver action than if you just ate fat.

Hence: losing weight is all about calories consumed.

As a corollary, in my opinion, a balanced diet is essential and dicking around with eating less sugar/fat/protein at the expense of the others is not only a waste of time but probably less healthy than keeping some kind of balance.

Luke - my jottings on your diet plan said

1237 calories
138g of carbs
30.4g of fat
100g of protein

The balance looks wrong, and 1200 calories is very small for anyone that's active.   However, I obviously could have nobbed it up when looking up all the nutritional things, and guessed at portion sizes wrong.  Can you elaborate on the quantities?  You're not a secret eater are you?

Lund

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This paper here:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/1/69.long

... suggests that maybe you should just eat every other day?

On the BMR/RMR debate (Basal or Resting Metabolic Rate) - the key thing indicating whether your metabolism has slowed down or not - the interesting science appears to be that:

* After an overnight fast, it slows down a smidgeon

* After 1-3 days (http://archive.unu.edu/unupress/food2/UID07E/UID07E11.HTM) the MR goes UP, although there's some discussion about why: it may be that it appears to go up because after a day, your body starts to eat itself by digesting protein (before that it preferentially uses glycogen etc.) < note the implication here for excess protein when you're eating plenty of carbs = stored as fat not burnt, unless you require it for muscle repair

* After that it goes down, more for fatties, who stop burning protein.  An interesting piece in here is that skinny (non-obese) people's bodies will prefer to eat protein whilst fasting for ages, rather than fat.  So skinny people trying to lose more weight will eat their muscles before their subcutaneous fat I guess.

I tried to find a study on breakfast and metabolic rate.  I found lots of things with interesting curves about metabolic rate showing that the time of day was very important in a circadian rhythm sense.  (As an aside, insomniacs show exactly the same curve, but displaced higher i.e. they use more calories all teh time, but it varies with circadian rhythms.)

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/14647455_24-Hour_metabolic_rate_in_insomniacs_and_matched_normal_sleepers/file/9fcfd5012d08007e25.pdf

Whilst I was looking I did find this:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/55/3/645.short

Quote
Fifty-two moderately obese adult women were stratified according to their baseline breakfast-eating habits and randomly assigned a weight-loss program. The no-breakfast group ate two meals per day and the breakfast group ate three meals per day. The energy content of the two weight-loss programs was identical. After the 12-wk treatment, baseline breakfast eaters lost 8.9 kg in the no-breakfast treatment and 6.2 kg in the breakfast treatment. Baseline breakfast skippers lost 7.7 kg in the breakfast treatment and 6.0 kg in the no-breakfast treatment. This treatment-by-strata-by-time interaction effect (P less than 0.06) suggests that those who had to make the most substantial changes in eating habits to comply with the program achieved better results. Analyses of behavioral data suggested that eating breakfast helped reduce dietary fat and minimize impulsive snacking and therefore may be an important part of a weight-reduction program.

So... I think it says that:

* If you are fat and eat breakfast normally, starting to skip it will mean you lose more weight than if you don't;
* If you're a fatty and you routinely skip breakfast, and then start to eat it, you will lose more weight than if you continue to skip it [as part of a calorie controlled diet]
* If you eat breakfast you're less likely to snack if you're a fatty.

So fatties, stop eating breakfast and get some fucking willpower.  (Joke.)

lmarenzi

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What I think all that is saying is essentially nothing.

Honestly, its not difficult to figure out a moderate, varied and nutritious diet which will take you to an appropriate weight.

You don't need p less than 0.06 to work it out, just a bit of common sense.

tresor

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Be a bit careful with the sushi. Usually there is plenty of sugar in the rice along with vinegar. May not taste sweet but your body notices it anyway and craves more.


//Tresor

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Lund what do you think about the bodybuilding advice on protein intake that ranges from 1g per kg of bodyweight to 2.8g per kg!

From my broscience level understanding when trying to gain muscle and loose fat it's important to keep protein intake high to prevent you body from burning muscle for fuel instead of fat.

This is based on the idea that your body will only use your muscles for fuel if:
1) It believes it is in a state of famine - e.g. you are starving yourself.
2) You have insufficient essential amino acids in your diet.

It's because of this 'bro' science that I eat a similar amount of protein as Luke does around 100g.

Is this a load of  :shit:

 

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