[SA Chris]

12 st 13 3/4 this morning. I was hovering around the 13st 3 or 4 mark for a few weeks, then I went on the cortisol diet; last two weeks at work have been utterly manic, and very very streessful. Effective but not recommended as I've managed to climb for a total of about 3 hours in the last 2 weeks.

[Fultonius]

I think I've found what you've lost!!  Offshore and too much socialising = fatty fat fat boy...

[mrjonathanr]

Sugar and saturated fats should be avoided generally if you wan´t to feel fit or lose weight. But that doesn´t include unsaturated fats which are needed for some metabolic processes. ironcally burning fat is one of them and doesn´t work if you don´t eat "healthy fat".

Lipid based hormones eg steroids are derived from cholesterol, quite important for healthy functioning.

In the main I'd agree, but I think our fat needs are probably rather complex going beyond saturated=bad, unsaturated = good.

Lard-fried Marsbars may be pushing it though...

[Nibile]

An interesting article about aerobics, weight loss and lean mass.
It could be helpful for those who want to lose weight in a good way.
http://www.t-nation.com/training/fasted-cardio-eats-muscle
Hope it helps.

[Fatboy]

Very interesting article there Nibile, I find it all very interesting but it makes my head hurt!

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[Nibile]

 

[Sasquatch]

Lard-fried Marsbars may be pushing it though...

What about deep fried twinkie's?   

I actually ate one a few years back.  Felt ill for days......

[Falling Down]

We bought a decent juicer so have been slurping for breakfast and lunch rather than munching.  Lost a load of weight without getting hungry at all - lots of protein and fats in some of the recipes.  A bit weird doing tiny poos though.

[tomtom]

Bet it's good for making cocktails too

[Eddies]

I would say that getting some exercise in before a decent sized protein rich breakfast is a good idea in order to loose fat. Try have a min of three equal sized meals thro the day rather than your largest meal being in the evening.
Vary your exercise but prioritise resistance training and HIIT over low intensity cardio.
Really interesting podcasts from the pros at 'We Do Science' from @GuruPerformance @laurent_bannock

[Mike Tyson]

Thread resurrection alert!

Was after some advice/kind help regards my diet. I've been doing a hell of a lot better with my whole lifestyle in general this year (keeping off the booze etc) But wonder what I could do better with regards to my food intake. So, diet goes pretty much like this most days/weeks:

Breakfast- Bran flakes with a scattering of sultanas and 1% cow juice.

10.30am Snack- Apple, satsuma and slide of malt loaf.

Lunch- cheddar cheese and pickle sandwich x 2 on wholegrain bread,  low fat Yoghurt, another apple and satsuma, small cake of some description, oatcakes and some more cheese.

Afternoon snack- rest of oatcakes, possibly more fruit left over from lunch.

Evening meal- something like chilli with Quorn, brown rice, tuna pasta bake, bangers and mash, plenty of fresh veg etc etc.

I usually have a cup of tea in the morning, 2 litres of water during the day time, and not much more at night but will nail a few none alcoholic beers if I feel the urge.

I personally feel I'm missing something, or over indulging in something else, but I'm not sure what. I wonder if there is too much sugar, and often think I need more savoury things in my bait box.

Over to you.

[Oldmanmatt]

Sepsis, Augmentin, close proximity to toilet.

Not great advice, but effective.


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[Fultonius]

More fat. less sugar. IMO ditch all your low fat nonsense - work of the devil. Swap your

What is your issue?  Are you trying to lose weight? Do you struggle with hunger cravings?

[Mike Tyson]

I figured sugar is probably the biggest issue. I was taking carrot and hummus to work with me, good or bad fat? I'm flipping clueless.

I'm not trying to lose weight especially, but it would be handy I guess. Currently about 12st 9lbs so 12st would be the magic figure.

I do a very physical job, so keeping my energy levels up throughout the day is essential. And ideally I'd love to be able to exercise after work, but this isn't always possible to to me being knackered.

[a dense loner]

This week sugar is bad. I wouldn't worry about it. You're eating too much fruit, re apples. It looks like you're trying too hard to have a good diet! Bran flakes are doing nothing for you that's why you're snacking, what's one percent cow juice? Sounds pathetic. With your job get a load of porridge in you in the morning, then have dinner and tea. Carrot and hummus is good if you've got a project or an office job, to sustain you moving logs or laying walls for 8-10 hrs a day is as much use as tits on a bull

[Mike Tyson]

Haha Lee! Direct and to the point, always the best policy my friend. 1% milk is to try and appease my Mrs, she used to drink skimmed which I can't fucking stand, so we made the compromise of getting the 1% stuff which tastes more like semi-skimmed. Porridge is a good shout, and something I like but seem to forget about. I'll get back on it. What should I aim for then in terms of good fat? More cheese?

One other thing I need to consider in all this, is my good lady, who is a very fussy bugger when it comes to food  Good job I love her 

[thekettle]

More fat vote from me too! I've switched to full fat milk and lost weight (by sorting out other areas of my diet). I'd swap some of those fruit for veg if you don't mind ploughing through spinach, beetroot etc at lunchtime. Not much by way of fish or nuts/seeds in there, they're a good source of protein, good fats/oils etc. I get the 1kg tubs of peanut butter, big bags of mixed nuts (go well in full fat yoghurt and fill you fast). I fill myself up at lunchtime with avocado's and tinned fish alongside the usual fruit and veg.
If your job is physical you'll need the calories, main aim should be to make them good quality/nutrient dense ones. I use this diagram: http://www.isismedicine.com/Phytonutrient%20Spectrum_%20Patient%20Handout.pdf on the fridge to keep me psyched for a decent diet.

[webbo]

There was something on the telly about milk, which the difference in fat between skimmed and full fat is next nothing and the fat actually aids the digestion of the nutrients in milk.

[cjsheps]

First things first, get breakfast right - a low fat breakfast is probably the reason you're snacking before midday.

If it's your thing, try some sort of oat-based thing with full fat milk, fruit and nuts. I find that adding salt helps satisfy cravings too - my body seems to need quite a lot of it. Eat until you're properly full, and that will keep you going till lunch time.

Speaking from experience, I find I need to eat a lot more bland food (e.g. cheese sandwiches) to feel full compared to something with strong flavours. Maybe try to get into the habit of adding strong spices to things.

[TheTwig]

I agree with others you need more fat with your breakfast. The ultimate filling brekfast for me is rolled oats porridge with a handful of nuts and some protein powder whisked in. Ticks all the boxes and will keep you going forever.

I would question the value of eating all of that cheese, particularly if you are trying to loose weight. Personally I would go for nuts/olives/almond butter/coconut products etc, but that's just me.

There are plenty of 'hacks' that you can use (cjsheps alludes to this) to make yourself feel fuller, all apparantly due to the power of science!


Take longer to eat. Not always possible when you are at work etc but taking an hour for lunch seems to work ok for the French
Split food into smaller portions. Especially at dinner, you'll feel fuller if you have 2x small portions instead of 1x medium portion
Try and go for more colour/flavour. Easy to do without adding calories, e.g salt, pepper, spices, herbs, whatever
Having a snack during a workout means you will eat less after the workout and consume fewer total calories than if you stayed hungry during the workout
Avoid 'liquid' calories like the plague. Train your body to just want water, it just takes time.

It might be worth using myfitnesspal or something similar to estimate how many calories you are consuming in a day, and doing that for a weeks worth of days (not necessarily in the same week) so you have a rough idea. Eating too few calories is just as bad as eating too many for weight loss, as your body gets stubborn because it is essentially starving



I've been reading Racing Weight, Dave Macleod recommended it and it seems quite good, though obviously needs adapting from an endurance focus

[Fultonius]

I think that's nonsense that Bechtel stuff. If you get your metabolism sorted and eat the right stuff you can be lighter effortlessly.

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[petejh]

I agree with that^. As have other posters I found I dropped weight without trying and felt more energetic by switching to eating more unsaturated fat; quite a bit of saturated fat - I'll cook in butter a couple days every week/olive oil the other days (but I try to limit the saturated fat somewhat, was overdoing it at one stage) - full fat natural yogurt (not flavoured - full of sugar); keeping protein about the same but going for good quality wild fish and organic chicken as a treat; and reducing carbs - I'll have half a pack of 5 grain rice, never go near pasta or baked potatoes, don't have bread in the house (or I'd demolish it, the bread, in a day); and focusing on avoiding sucrose/fructose aka 'sugar' like the plague - no soft drinks/sugar in tea/coffee, 90% cocoa chocolate, no fruit juice, read the labels on packaged food adn choose the lowest sugar option. As usual awareness and motivation leads to change of behavior.
Low fat yogurts are loaded with sugar and are probably fattening - all that sugar turns to fat especially in the morning when you've just had 10 hours of doing fuck-all exercise ..... You should tell your girlfriend there's nothing healthy about consuming lots of sugar after no activity whatsoever - even if it does come in a pot with a picture of a fit white-toothed, , smiling Scandinavian chick in a white dress. (or tell her she needs to engage in high intensity exercise during the 10 hours before consuming it...)

Someone should start a thread about how dogshit sugar is..

Bear in mind I've a sedentary-ish job. Mix of 60-70% office, visiting sites/clients, getting equipment ready, driving, some carrying. Lots of time on my arse reading ukb. Going off the belwo diet I'll virtually never snack between meals except at the crag. Someone with a purely physical trade is going to want snacks. I'm 63-64kg btw, 5'10''.

Breaky: almond butter/banana/2 egg pancake fried in butter served with blueberries/raspberries topped in cacoa (not cocoa) powder. Or scrambled eggs on rye bread. Or mixed nuts/high fat yogurt/cacoa powder/berries on top. Never much carbs. These breakfast leave me satisified until around 2-3pm, I'm never hungry mid-morning.
Lunch: I'm shit at lunch and eat too many 6'' subways (tuna though, never processed red meat) but I'll cut away half the flatbread. Or a tuna salad with lots of olive oil. Avocado on buttered rye bread with lemon and olive oil. Lunches are best prepped at home but I'm too lazy/busy.
Dinners: Learning to efficiently cook 3 or 4 tasty recipies using fresh ingredients helps staying away from shit ingredients like sugar. High fat and protein, a bit of wholegrain cabs. My standard recipes, which I can bosh out in 15-20 minutes, are:
Green Chicken Masala and sweet potatoes with coconut oil and a mint/coriander/lemon/galic/jalapeno sauce;
Stir fry (tons of veg) with a homemade sauce of mint/coriander/ginger/lemon/garlic.
Omelette with broccoli, leek, slices of sweet potatoes;
Butternut squash soup with coriander/olive oil topping and buttered rye bread.

Days when I don't cook I'm down the pizza shop but I get a veggie one and chuck a tin of tuna on top then smother it in olive oil and spinach.
Wine instead of beer, I try to limit it to weekends but fail every other week. If you're serious about dropping weight, water instead of wine except weekends.

On a day at the crag I'll eat a bit of sweets and chocolate, and try to finish the sesh eating carbs/protein ratio 4:1 (but not lots - research grams of each per kg body weight per hour exercised for how much. Basically a choccy bar, banana, plus a pure protein bar or drink, plus lots of water to make you feel full)
After training sesh: small carb/protein hit, 4:1
Winter climbing/hill day: eat anything I like, loads of sugar and fat.

Last year when I wanted to experiment with purposely losing weight I just boshed out 1500 calories (roughly) per day for two weeks, dropped all alcohol, and dropped 4 kg. (then got injured, cunt!) Weight hasn't really fully gone back on since, I think I'm still 2 or 3kg lighter now than before my brief 2-week diet despite eating shit loads of fat and plenty of calories, and I'm not doing any mega calorie-burning exercise but do a little most days. High intensity stuff like you'll see in Nibbles vids is a great way to burn calories - a short intense heavy kettlebell workout will leave your body burning calories for hours afterwards.

Look up metabolic effect of exercise and try some intense resistance for two weeks and see how much you drop when combined with cutting out sugar.

[slackline]

Look up metabolic effect of exercise

Constrained Total Energy Expenditure and Metabolic Adaptation to Physical Activity in Adult Humans

Suggests an alternative model based on experimental data to the linear relationship most commonly considered to underpin exercise and metabolism.

[tim palmer]

Whilst thinking about this a bit in a fit of post christmas self loathing I listened to thing on radio 4 about nutrition in running:
Part 1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06tq3tk

Part 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06zqd89

It is very interesting, lots of experts on sports nutrition and anecdotal rubbish too (everyone who seemed to know anything seemed to slam low carb-high fat as a fad and the paleo diet as total bullshit).

But the final statement (in the main show rather than the online extended podcast) was really interesting, a guy from some ivory tower in the states (Harvard I think) simply says (I paraphrase):

"We can argue about sports nutrition all day but in the end it can all be summed up in nine words: Eat real food, plenty of vegetables, not too much"

I realise it kind of strays on to diet for performance but I should think that diet for weight loss whilst maintaining performance is the same can be applied a balanced diet avoiding processed food, within those confines find what works, if it is fermented soy bean go for it, but if you stray too far in favour of fat or carb it is probably going to be problematic in the medium to long term. 

[tomtom]

I found the calorie counting apps (my fitness pal I think?) really useful for tracking/logging calorie intake.. of course this is a pretty crude breakdown (lots of assumptions in the calories in various dishes - and the whole what do the calories actually mean - aka the good vs bad calorie shit) but that aside, it gives you a good overall indication of how much you are taking in and allows you to monitor it day by day...

Incidentally, I have a colleague at work - similar age to me (45) similar height and build (scrawny) who's only exercise is cycling 2-3 miles to work and back and drinking coffee. He monitors his weight - and it varies by up to 9lbs a week!!! He fattens up over the weekend (eats more and drinks more) then loses it all again during the week... I was quite shocked at how fast it came and went!