[miso soup]

Personally I think the sensible thing is to have a curfew time on large trucks (>7.5 tonnes).. And if that makes building in London too expensive - well other parts of the UK (plc) do exist...

Whilst a rush hour curfew on LGVs is nice PR from Boris and kind of makes sense in theory, how on earth would this be implemented?  What do all those lorries that are near the curfew zone at 10 to 4 (or whatever) do?  Park up? Where?  Chaos ensues.  I just can't see it working in reality.

 

Construction is not the only industry using LGVs.  A human being who needs to be in central London at a specific time has various other options open to them if they are unable to cycle.  Something that's being transported into central London in a 40 foot artic is probably difficult or impossible to move any other way.

[SA Chris]

France have no qualms about imposing HGV restrictions

http://about-france.com/hgv.htm

[RobinB]

On a separate note from HGV related cycling issues, I've found that Merino cycling tops are great for commuting. They don't have to be washed as often as synthetic based tops

[miso soup]

"There are exceptions for trucks carrying perishable produce or refrigerated produce, trucks servicing sporting events or trade fairs, and a few other cases."

Restrictions, sure.  There are already various localised restrictions in place, but any kind of blanket ban doesn't seem realistic, and if one was enforced it would have significant negative economic and cultural consequences in areas far removed from cyclist injury statistics.

[slackline]

if one was enforced it would have significant negative economic and cultural consequences in areas far removed from cyclist injury statistics.

Could you be more descriptive please as personally I think lives are slightly more important than profit and can't think what you refer to by "cultural consequences".

[ianv]

On a separate note from HGV related cycling issues, I've found that Merino cycling tops are great for commuting. They don't have to be washed as often as synthetic based tops

You run the risk of bring the thread back on track 

[Ti_pin_man]

I'm sure that a ban could be trialled for 6 months... and i am sure the HGV's can schedule their deliveries so as not to all be sat in car parks outside the centre until 10am.  It isnt rocket science, put the goods into smaller less risky vans or deliver later. 

[Lund]

France have no qualms about imposing HGV restrictions

http://about-france.com/hgv.htm

France:

Most heavy goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes are banned from the French road and motorway network  every weekend between the hours of 10 p.m Saturday and 10 p.m Sunday. 

There are exceptions for trucks carrying perishable produce or refrigerated produce, trucks servicing sporting events or trade fairs, and a few other cases

in Paris:

HGVs cannot enter the Paris area on Mondays and day following a public holiday, from 6 a.m to 10 a.m,
HGVs cannot leave the Paris area on Fridays and days preceding a public holiday, usually from 4 p.m. onwards.

Now, London:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/microsites/freight/london_lorry_control_scheme.aspx

The LLCS restricts the movement of HGVs in London at night and weekends. [...]

21:00 to 07:00, Monday to Saturday
13:00 Saturdays to 07:00 Mondays

So, it seems the only difference... is that France doesn't have early morning and late night restrictions during the week, where London does; the French are more restrictive on Monday mornings, friday afternoons, and on bank holidays; and London is more permissive on a Saturday morning.

In both cases, on dark, wet, miserable wednesday morning, at 8.30am, you run the risk of being crushed by a dumper truck.

So I fail to see why following the example of the French is a good idea.  (In fact, when exactly would this have been a good idea in any case, why would you do what those cheese eating surrender monkey's do?  Wars were fought over this shit, come on guys FFS)

Especially over road safety...

Then again, they did invent the bicycle.  Maybe we've actually come across the heart of the problem.

[SA Chris]

Put my hand up and say I was unaware of any restrictions in London. As our cousins across t'watter say, my bad.

[miso soup]

if one was enforced it would have significant negative economic and cultural consequences in areas far removed from cyclist injury statistics.

Could you be more descriptive please as personally I think lives are slightly more important than profit and can't think what you refer to by "cultural consequences".

Sorry for being vague.  I am admittedly looking at this from my own narrow world view and thinking mainly of entertainment industry logistics.  Shows that tour in trucks often do so on tight schedules and budgets, venues and crew are not cheap.  A truck showing up two hours late can be the difference between a production making or losing money.  Introducing situations where trucks need to wait around outside cities overnight, or equipment has to be cross-loaded into a fleet of vans will in many cases mean the show is no longer economically viable and just doesn't happen.  Which means less shows, which means less work for me and all the other freelancers trying to make ends meet in London.  With lower budget shows often being the most creatively interesting it also means an unquantifiable slump in the cultural wealth of the city.  This is just one specific example of how increased HGV restrictions could have far-reaching knock-on effects, but I'm sure there are many more.

Of course lives are more important than profits, and of course we should continually try to minimise the amount of cyclists being killed by trucks, but the 'truck hits cyclist therefore ban all trucks' line of reasoning just seems a bit simplistic and unrealistic to me.

[fatdoc]

Again, not the focus of the topic... But I have to question the policing of the french HGV laws at the weekends, unless autoroutes are different, coz 9 a.m on a Sunday on the  autoroute de Titans... Out of Geneva... Its fecking rammed.. In 5 consecutive years of experience...

[slackline]

Sorry for being vague. 

Thanks miso that context makes things clearer.

Could use technology and have little cameras fitted to show whats down the side of lorries, just like the ones that some cars have for reversing.

I think this would be a great solution. Two little screens inside the cab could offer a clean view down each side of the lorry. A driver would soon get into the habit of checking each screen before moving just as they would do their mirrors.  Such camera systems already exist but I've only ever seen video from them after an accident has taken place rather than them being used as a precautionary measure.

As if by magic

[slackline]

Editorial piece in the BMJ on cycle helmets, risk and public policy (posting as much for the articles it cites).... http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3817?ijkey=I5vHBog6FhaaLzX&keytype=ref

[slackline]

When is a 'cluster' a cluster a blog post from David Speigelhalter covering the statistical analysis of the cluster of deaths in London recently based on a article he's co-authored in Significance (pay-walled).  I've no idea where the ¹⁰⁸/₂₀₈ figure which underpins the calculations comes from though.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Reading up on 'bone conduction headphones'. If anyone wants to listen to tunes but is worried about not hearing traffic noise whilst commuting in traffic they might be handy...

http://www.aftershokz.co.uk/Bone-Conduction-Headphones-AfterShokz-s/1818.htm

(like most things developed for the military which finds it way into civvy use it is usually pretty  )