[petejh]

I've got some advice Nibs but you're not going to like it! [...]

Alternatively Nibs could first try to make a significant improvement in strength... but I would venture a guess that is a way slower and much less sure way to improvement for him...

I've never met him, but from what I gather if Nib's physical capabilities (as they relate to climbing) were fruit on a tree:
aero/endurance would be low-hanging to a dwarf
anaerobic fitness would be mid-height, requiring a ladder
strength & power would be 1 inch from the top of the tree, requiring the hiring of an expensive cherry-picker and detailed method statement on how to safely reach the fruit without damaging the tree

[Nibile]

 
Considering that I recently found out that I am in fact three cm shorter than I used to think, I will take the dwarf reference with my usual nonchalance and irony. I will smash a few things with a sledgehammer, a little later in the afternoon.
I had thought about improving aerobic endurance, but having only my 53 degrees board and a BM I didn't know it was feasible.
Cheers Stu.
Now, how could I get really strong?

[Nibile]

OK, after having lunch my mind is clear. Clearly full of questions.
Would lifting weights be detrimental to building aerobic endurace as Stu mentioned? And if so, why?
Should I do what he advised me to do, on dedicated sessions or could it be successfuly done after bouldering?
Which level of pump should I achieve and keep?
Should I keep training anaerobic endurance as before, with the foot on campusing?

And again, on this matter, back to my original question: should I do few sets to failure or many shorter sets with incomplete rests?
Cheers.

[filz]

And again, on this matter, back to my original question: should I do few sets to failure or many shorter sets with incomplete rests?

I'd do more sets to failure with incomplete rests.
I do something like this with boulder problems instead of campusing: set the timer for 1' climbing 2' rest. Do 6 sets, then take 10' rest and repeat. 2 times a week.

If you can do 1'15" when rested you should be able to complete a couple of sets and fail in the others before the minute.
As you get better take shorter rest and then increase the climbing time.

It's very unscientific but worked well for me in the brief periods I've done it. Though my starting point was pretty low.

If after 2-3 weeks you don't see improvements throw my suggestion away and I buy you a drink

[Nibile]

If after 2-3 weeks you don't see improvements throw my suggestion away and I buy you a drink

Do we know each other?

[filz]

If after 2-3 weeks you don't see improvements throw my suggestion away and I buy you a drink

Do we know each other?

We might have climbed togheter a couple of times 

[Nibile]

 
Nothing more to say from the stamina plodders?
Where are they when we boulderers need them?

[Stu Littlefair]

OK, after having lunch my mind is clear. Clearly full of questions.
Would lifting weights be detrimental to building aerobic endurace as Stu mentioned? And if so, why?
Should I do what he advised me to do, on dedicated sessions or could it be successfuly done after bouldering?
Which level of pump should I achieve and keep?
Should I keep training anaerobic endurance as before, with the foot on campusing?

Sorry Nibs - been busy!

Lifting weights won't be detrimental to endurance, but you need to free up nearly an hour of training time for this, and the weights are the least useful thing you do.

You can do this after bouldering. 4x 10 mins on, 10 mins off. Aim for a noticeable but gentle level of pump. I try and get "quite" pumped to start, and then ease off to maintain that level.

You can keep doing the foot on campussing, but maybe only a session a week.

[Nibile]

Cheers Stu! I appreciate it!

[slackline]

Nothing more to say from the stamina plodders?
Where are they when we boulderers need them?

http://UKStaminaplodders.com/

[Fultonius]

Going to piggy back this thread as it's on similar lines.

My knee is bad just now, so hours of traversing (and maybe some campus foot on stuff)is all I can manage just now.

My current level is: TCA ~15deg board 1 x lap of 6b (30 moves on jugs) straight into(no rest) 1 lap of another 6b (40 moves on jugs). This takes me around 4 minutes and I'm struggling at the end, but not failure on first set at least.

The other circuit I'm doing is on the 5 degree wall (well, I think it's about 5 degrees) and it's down as "7a+". It's 50 moves and has a crux at 37, with a hands free rest just after. I just worked up to doing that one last session. Also 3 to 4 minutes but haven't timed it so not totally sure.

I have the whole autumn / winter to play with and no immediate routes or goals. I'd like to break the Font 7c barrier and get back to the 8s on routes and onsight loads of E5s next year.

My questions are:

Would I be best putting in a block of "easier" circuits more in the 10 minute light pump category for a few weeks to increase my aerobic capacity?

Could I combine this with some dull fingerboard strength work?

Should I leave PE (AnCap / AeroPow?) for closer to the time that I'll actually be getting out and working on problems?

[abarro81]

Nibile:
RE: going to failure vs not.. I think for the stength end of PE (what I call An Pow and some call short resistance) then failure with long rests is good. For the pumpy end of PE (Aero Pow or long resistance) then more reps is likely to be better, although there is a version where you go to failure, rest the same time that took, repeat until you flatline. That's a hard session.
I wouldn't be bothering with any of this if it's ages til you try your route anyway - do some aero cap like Stu said and do some an cap.
I think aero cap after other sessions is ok; the longer you leave it between them the better i.e. if you could hang in the morning and aero cap in the evening that's better than doing it all in the evening.

My questions are:

Would I be best putting in a block of "easier" circuits more in the 10 minute light pump category for a few weeks to increase my aerobic capacity?

Could I combine this with some dull fingerboard strength work?

Should I leave PE (AnCap / AeroPow?) for closer to the time that I'll actually be getting out and working on problems?

Respectively, in my opinion...
- Yes. But think more like a couple of months than a couple of weeks. I'd do some longer (20-30min) blocks too
- Yes, I would positively advise it.
- An pow and aero pow yes, an cap no - do that now.

[Fultonius]

Respectively, in my opinion...
- Yes. But think more like a couple of months than a couple of weeks. I'd do some longer (20-30min) blocks too
- Yes, I would positively advise it.
- An pow and aero pow yes, an cap no - do that now.

 

I'm working on a matrix of the energy systems and how they can be trained (Basically a condensed form of your pdf for quick reference). I'll maybe post it up and you lot can offer your thoughts and corrections.

[Nibile]

Tried the 10' on/10' off x3 thingy this evening. Fuck off you all. I'll never fit into my shirts again now.
It's surprising which level of pump one can achieve with feet on the ground! It's been brilliant really, and the feeling of something resembling a recovery during the excercises was a shock indeed.
Cheers.
I obviously ended everything with a weights complex focused on speed and some barbell carries for good measure.
The wolf sheds etc.

[Fultonius]

Can you give some clarification on what a certain circuit would represent in the general training scheme of things.

I'm currently aiming to work absolute power (bouldering, max hangs on fingerboard, core, general conditioning) mixed in with some AnCap as I'm doing this as much for routes performance next year as I am for bouldering.

However, the last few sessions I've got hooked by trying a circuit at TCA.

It's on the 45 circuits board, 33 moves long and apparently ~7c+ route grade.  I started doing from move 10, so I've been mainly doing ~22 moves. A first I was failing at move 15, but now have done it twice to the finish (there's a bit of a crux at 15, but it's reasonably steady overall).

Today I started working from move 6 and failed again at the same point as I was before. (now move 19)

However, if I start pushing towards the far end will I getting into AnPow territory rather than staying in AnCap?  Should I continue doing it from move 10 but shorten rest times? (I'm currently fully resting between attempts)

 

[Paul B]

I may have asked this before (and it's not a total hijack looking at the post above) but I'd also like to better understand just how to know which energy system is failing / the weak link. For instance I thought in the RRG I'd fall off with my arms feeling massively pumped etc. However, it seemed like I'd just come up short on a move (after repeating it for the 30th time), AnPow?*

*as I was a bit of a slacker I don't have many instances of this so I could have just punted things.

[bendavison]

It's on the 45 circuits board, 33 moves long and apparently ~7c+ route grade.  I started doing from move 10, so I've been mainly doing ~22 moves. A first I was failing at move 15, but now have done it twice to the finish (there's a bit of a crux at 15, but it's reasonably steady overall).

Today I started working from move 6 and failed again at the same point as I was before. (now move 19)

However, if I start pushing towards the far end will I getting into AnPow territory rather than staying in AnCap?  Should I continue doing it from move 10 but shorten rest times? (I'm currently fully resting between attempts)

Barrows, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not usually training just one energy system at once. There's a spectrum of sorts.

When you were starting at move 10 and failing at 15, then that's just bouldering! Might be worth making this move easier if you plan on doing reps of this circuit/section.

Starting at move 6 and failing at move 19 is a good length for bouldery AnCap, but given that you've only done it twice whilst fully resting, it's probably a bit hard for AnCap. Fully resting between attempts is also typical of an AnPow session, but 22 moves is quite short (?) for this I think. For bouldery AnCap, resting longer is also useful (~4 x climbing time, as a guide).

If you want to make it as AnCap centric as possible, then I'd suggest picking a 12-17 move section of it (if this includes the hard move then make it easier), and repping it. I think Barrows suggested 2x5 reps, resting 2-4 x climbing time, with a long rest after the first 5 reps, in his pdf. Aim to fail at the end of each block of 5, maybe failing a couple moves before the end on the previous rep.

I may have asked this before (and it's not a total hijack looking at the post above) but I'd also like to better understand just how to know which energy system is failing / the weak link. For instance I thought in the RRG I'd fall off with my arms feeling massively pumped etc. However, it seemed like I'd just come up short on a move (after repeating it for the 30th time), AnPow?*

Me too... Tommmyyyy! RRG is pretty burly right? I wouldn't be surprised if you just got powered out, which I normally associate with AnCap or AnPow.

[abarro81]

I may have asked this before (and it's not a total hijack looking at the post above) but I'd also like to better understand just how to know which energy system is failing / the weak link. For instance I thought in the RRG I'd fall off with my arms feeling massively pumped etc. However, it seemed like I'd just come up short on a move (after repeating it for the 30th time), AnPow?*

*as I was a bit of a slacker I don't have many instances of this so I could have just punted things.

What routes were you falling off in RRG and how far up? Might make it easier to guess at why you were falling... redpoints or onsights? If it's onsighting you might have just fucked up... As for establishing weak links I don't think it's always trivial unless there's a really obvious one


Fultonius - there are a myriad of session structures you could use to try to target an cap but I don't think any of them would involve resting fully between attempts... (Having said this, Tom may have one like that and come along and surprise me)

[Fultonius]

When you were starting at move 10 and failing at 15, then that's just bouldering! Might be worth making this move easier if you plan on doing reps of this circuit/section.

Sorry, I have confused you with terrible wording!  I was failing on "my" 15th move (move 25 of the overall circuit).

I can now make it though to the finish, so it's a hard but doable 22 move problem.

I've also just figured out a decent 12 move problem on the 30 degree circuit wall. (might switch the last couple of moves and make it 15 moves but without a fall-off move at the finish).

I find them hard, but repeatable with 5 mins or so rest (but I only have just got them wired).

Back to my first question (which I think you answered) - I'm best not to try the full 33 move circuit but repping what I'm currently doing. (maybe making a move or two easier if I'm struggling on it, and maybe even shortening by a few moves.

Edited as I hadn't real Alex's reply:

Fultonius - there are a myriad of session structures you could use to try to target an cap but I don't think any of them would involve resting fully between attempts... (Having said this, Tom may have one like that and come along and surprise me)

So, I need them to be easier, with shorter rests.

[Paul B]

Me too... Tommmyyyy! RRG is pretty burly right? I wouldn't be surprised if you just got powered out, which I normally associate with AnCap or AnPow.

I'm emailed Neely surrounding the Eva lopez discussion in Steve Maisch's podcast. Various correspondence led me to suggest if she wished to interview someone from the UK, I'd strongly recommend talking to Tommy. If we all apply a significant amount of peer pressure he may just buckle and do it!

Barrows - I'm mainly thinking BOHICA here (I was too lazy to do much falling off) but there's not a lot of info to go off:
OS - Screwed up just before the angle change, spent too much time trying to out-think the 'big move'.
RP1 - Died about 2/3rds up the steepness (damp and hot day, last day, 3rd day, insert additional excuses here etc.).
Went home.

I'm fairly sure it's not Aero based as I ended up getting stuck behind a fellow climber at the other day at the wall and happily recovered; an awesome feeling.

But seriously, identifying which energy system is failing or needs training seems to be a bit of a gap in the Barrows text and without a lattice board and a Tommy that leaves me a bit stuck.

[bendavison]

Oh right!

Back to my first question (which I think you answered) - I'm best not to try the full 33 move circuit but repping what I'm currently doing. (maybe making a move or two easier if I'm struggling on it, and maybe even shortening by a few moves.

Sounds good, + what Alex said. A couple things for the future: 1. once you've got the rest time down to ~3 mins I reckon you need to make it harder, rather than continue to reduce the rest, 2. don't forget to change the circuit occasionally - I wouldn't recommend keeping the same one for more than a week or two, but I know some people make an entirely new circuit every (AnCap) session.

[Fultonius]

OK, the second 13 move problem takes 30 seconds and I just repeated it with 2 minutes rest.

The first (22 move) is maybe a bit hard to do repeats with 2 mins rest.

[Fultonius]

Cheers guys,  think I'm slowly getting a better idea of what to work.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

[abarro81]

BOHICA is the one that doesn't have the sit-down rest right? (that being flower power)? I'd bet your failure pretty aero orientated - you've been on the thing for quite a while on your arms before you get to the angle change, and the moves are about V2... Perhaps a bit of an pow as well but it's pretty much a straight enduro route as I remember. Or you just didn't try hard enough

[Paul B]

I did Punt a bit... The whole LH, RH, LH, RH etc. THEN RH, RH threw me a bit.